Absolute Proof Jesus Christ is God

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: TerryDon79

There were dark times in Christianity... What you, among many other atheists can't get is that the Christians had to live by the rules of the pagan Romans. There is a dark history among Christian groups in the past. The inquisition for example.

What a whole lotta hogwash.

We bring up God condoning slavery in the Bible and you say crap like 'Christians had to live by the rules of the pagan Romans'.

What an extremely dishonest person you are. Both Old Testament (before Rome was even an idea) and New Testament condons slavery. God condons slavery.

The reason why you keep refusing this point is because your better than your so called God! You have better morals and judgment than 'God'.

Coomba98

a reply to: mytquin

John 10:30 (Aramaic Scripture) "I and my Father are one" Sounds like he did in fact claim to be God. Not only that but in Hebrews 1:8 God himself calls Jesus God. Check it out for yourself.Text

Hebrews 1:1-14 is in reference to "The Word" of The Most High EL. It was the Begotten Word who created this universe and not His Father who begat Him. That is why the "Word" is called our God. He is our Creator.

Hebrews 1:1-14 is not referring to Jesus the Son of man because at this time that the author is referencing [of Hebrews 1:1-14], Jesus the Son of man did not exist. The key to this understanding is substance change. Jesus was in the terrestrial substance with His celestial spirit. As Jesus stood alive in the flesh of man, He also stood alive in His spirit and was called both the Son of God and the Son of man. Nevertheless Jesus the Son of man did not create but His Spirit was still The Word who had created. This is why He was both our God as the Word and the son of man as Jesus. The author of Hebrews understood this in the very same way that John understood it in his gospel.

In reading Hebrews 1:8,9 you can then understand that Hebrews references both the Spirit Father and His image Word as God. This is to make it clear that this is not polytheism but is monotheism, and that Jesus and His Father are indeed one in Spirit.

This is why John said -- John_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

a reply to: coomba98

What an extremely dishonest person you are. Both Old Testament (before Rome was even an idea) and New Testament condons slavery. God condons slavery.

There is a perfect will and a permissive will. I don't believe the word, condone, is always used correctly. The bible says that the perfect will of the Creator will never be realized on planet earth. Never has and never will. According to Christian theology the entire creation is living in a permissive will of the Creator. My opinion of slavery is that it will always exist in one form or another. That is what the big One World Government is all about. Jesus knew that slavery will never be abolished because by free will it cannot ever be completely abolished. But I do not believe that Jesus condones slavery. He knew that through the premise of freedom to do as we will that slavery will never be done away with.

Most all people who claim to be Christians are not Christians. In my opinion of course. If Thomas Jefferson was a Nazarene who dearly loved Jesus as the Christ then he most certainly would not have enslaved any one and in fact would have used his belief to free slaves. But money was his bottom line and slavery was the source of making that money. According to James, the first of the future Christians, there could not be slave holders as Christians. Jesus never condoned slavery but did teach how to love and treat slaves. Perfect will is to not allow slavery but where are vou going to find perfect will of God in this cesspool?

a reply to: coomba98

First of all, what is the topic of the thread?... I'll let you in on a secret... The thread isn't about me, or what you want to twist about me... The thread isn't about slavery... The thread topic is on "absolute proof that Jesus Christ is God." He is the son of God, and was able to perform miracles so he was more than human.

You, and some others keep trying to derail the thread simply because you do not want to admit that there is evidence Jesus Christ did exist. This is the first argument that has been proven which would lead us to whether Christ is God, or the son of God. But yet again, the proof that Jesus Christ was more than just human, such as the Shroud of Turin, would also be denied by people like you.

I wonder where are the mods of this forum.

a reply to: Seede

These people will never concede any arguments that dispels their twisted logic. Christianity was founded under the changes in religion that Christ brought. Paul calls himself "a slave in Christ" as a sign of devotion. But atheists will not understand that Jesus Christ told his followers to choose whether to follow him or not.

Wow I go away to California for a few days and this thread blows up LOL

Good to see there are some who have accepted the truth of the deity of Jesus Christ in this thread.

For the others, I will be praying for you. Time is short.

originally posted by: StandingTallForChrist
Nothing I am about to write is an original thought, of that I am sure. With 100+ Billion people who have ever lived, perhaps no thought is truely unique.

Here is the absolute proof that Jesus Christ IS GOD.

Jesus was a poor carpenter who grew up in a predominantly illiterate and tiny corner of the world. He lived just 33 years, the last few making claims of his Godhood. Which ultimately lead to his death. He was not a general, or dictator or ruler or king or president... he was a simple and humble servant.

1) What year is it? 2017. It is 2017 to EVERYONE on Earth. Every check or document you sign atheist or theist is dated 2017. That is precisely 2017 years since the birth of Jesus Christ. This fact must REALLY get the goats of all those Atheists who have to acknowledge the year in which we live... maybe they could file a federal lawsuit!

2) Jesus Christ is the single most influential figure in all of human history. His name is known across all races, creeds, ethnicities, geographic boundaries and even time itself. Julius Caesar who? Genghis Khan what? Hitler? Stalin? Lincoln? Washington? Minor figures in history compared to the giant that is Jesus Christ.

3) He defeated death and rose three days later. He even restored others to life. Proof of his resurrection lies directly in the behavior of his followers, who were so terrified of the Roman Guard that they denied Jesus while he lived to save their own skin. But after he rose again and walked among them, they TRULY believed and most went to a gruesome death without ever denying the Messiah again. The bones of Jesus will never be discovered.

4) He appeared to me supernaturally 11 years ago, when I was an arrogant atheist. The light shined so brightly, yet there was no source... it was a room, with no windows, no light source... the most beautiful sight... but I digress. I understand my personal experience is no proof to you... but I never claimed to provide YOU with proof... only to present proof.

Jesus Christ lives and He IS God.

Which is why the entire world turns on a timetable marked by his birth... most of whom HATE him and deny him at every turn.
He is coming, there is still time to change your heart.

Now... my atheist friends... commence the trolling

Your post have changed my thought on Jesus. So impressive, thank you!

a reply to: Will262

Wow, you're easily swayed. You must be who the advertising gurus are marketing car commercials towards. How many you got in the garage- ten?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

For centuries there was ample literary evidence of the man Pontius Pilate existing as shown in the NT but we never had physical proof of this man even existing. There were no Roman records or archeological proof that he even existed. That is until the year of 1961 when a dig uncovered a limestone fragment with the inscription "Pontius Pilate, a prefect of the Roman province of Judaea from AD 26–36." It was discovered at the archaeological site of Caesarea Maritima in 1961.

My contention is this. For well over 1900 years the worlds doubters laughed and made light of this Pontius Pilate who never existed. The Greek manuscripts were not regarded as proof nor were the many historians who wrote of this Roman appointee as prefect of Judaea. I found that very interesting that a writing on stone is proof and a writing on the skin of an animal is not proof when actually the latter can be verified more accurately. The skin, ink, and script is far more accurate than is a rock. Why is that?

The same can be said of the over 25,000 MSS which verify Jesus with near 6,000 Greek MSS that comprise the NT. The very same MSS that show Pontius Pilate also show Jesus but yet Jesus is scoffed at and Pilate is now accepted because of a stone with his name on it. How can this be? There it is in the same MSS that both men lived and died and yet one man is accepted as proof and the other is not shown as proof.

What does it take to show proof that Jesus did exist? A rock with His name on it? Now to be fair we have to consider every name, place and event in the NT and OT as not being proof. We have to uncover a rock to prove every action in the OT and NT. The NT comprises of 27 pieces of literature verified in nearly 6,000 Greek manuscripts. All of these manuscripts have various scribes with various dates and locations in creating them. They are taken from countless literature which also agrees with these 27 letters and put into a codex which we call the NT.

Now what if we did not codex these 27 letters and left them in the massive libraries of over 25,000 MSS. Would that help? No it would be the same as Pilate suffered for over 1900 years. Then what is the solution? There is no solution as to proof in the minds of those who make the rules. If the rule makers would verify that literature can be proof then it would lead to the acceptance that the deity of Jesus is not only possible but in fact true. That cannot be allowed

The rule makers cannot allow this to happen. Darwin would have to go and that would destroy almost all universities in the civilized world. Thousands of professors and clergy wold lose their jobs and religions would seek to destroy cultures once again. The true Christian cannot expect to overcome this world. Jesus taught this when He said that there would be a great falling away in the last days. All we can do is make our case known for the few that will listen.

a reply to: Seede

the "rule makers" want something from the first century... more then just a few scraps of papyrus

Problem is few things survive for over 2000 years in that regard

Though i would bet the Vatican has something stashed away

a reply to: Akragon

a reply to: Seede the "rule makers" want something from the first century... more then just a few scraps of papyrus Problem is few things survive for over 2000 years in that regard Though i would bet the Vatican has something stashed away

I do agree with you and I would prefer that proof could be established but it cannot be established and that leaves unconfirmed evidence separated from proof. I am a Christian of the Nazarene faith but am also just as frustrated as other Christians may be. I have learned to be honest in my desire to be right and that led me out of theological arguments that can never be resolved by arguments. Most all of Christian theologians will argue with secular understanding and that is a fatal mistake on their part.

There is a great difference in making a point but we must stay on the same page. There are some truths in theology. Some truths are archeological or geographic and then some are proven in comparison with other proven events but theology will never be accepted as proof. Actually there is more evidence of Jesus in British and French theology then in biblical theology.

Most people are not even aware of the fact that Britain has more archeological evidence of Jesus and some of the Bethany family then even the biblical accounts show. It is shown by ancient church records that Glastonbury alone has more to offer than any other geographic location in the world and that the very first church was established in Glastonbury Britain long before the Roman Church was established.

Nevertheless, the rule makers will not allow this to be taught in the religious seminaries. Most church affiliations will not even accept the book of Revelation or the literature of Enoch to be taught when in fact Enochian literature was revered by the 1st century James and even some mainstreams early churches. Even the Apocrypha was removed from most all bibles by the printers of bibles and not by church council. These are the rule makers who determine what and how you are taught.

originally posted by: Iostsheep
a reply to: joelr


To say Jesus never lived is ignorant. Maybe it's just the south, but hey.. there is a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF he lived. Even some of most influential Athiest agree he lived. Its just fact buddy. I know Agnostics don't think can ever understand it because they don't read into it. Agnostics should be defined as, "I believe in God, but don't care or know much about it."

All these theories have been debunked buddy. It's even documented many miracles and solar eclipses. A lot of Pagan ideas came after Jesus. This is also documented. To compare Pagan to Christianity is ignorant as well. There is no proof Christ took from Pagans but there is mountains of evidence that Romans tried to combat Jesus through Paganism by creating mock gods. Just because Constantine, a former pagan, forced our Holy Scripture, our Holy day, and our Jubiliees and replaced it with Pagan ones almost 400 years later, does not mean Jesus was a pagan.

Judaism and Christianity go hand in hand by constant proof and archeological finds. Any thing else is a copy of literature passed on by the Jews. When Archaeologist find things like dead sea scrolls, speaking about Jesus and his miracle birth in Bethlehem 200 years before Jesus lived.. yea, you can expect a lot of people to use that promise as a myth. But hard facts point to Jesus Christ. Documented by Jews and Romans. It boils down to..

1.) He is who he said was(Christian)
2.) He was best magican of all time (Roman)
3.) He was an anti-Christ (Jewish )
4.) The saviour prophet (Islam)

Just a list of what's proven..
Jesus was a real man was greeted by Magi in Egypt at his birth, was baptizied by John the Baptist, was killed by Pilate, by Pharisees, on a cross, for claiming to be the Messiah, performed features such as turning one bread into multiple loafs, formed what's known as Christian movement, had Jews and gentiles believing he was their Lord, when he died during Passover of on 14th a solar eclipse happen for 3 hours, he died that same day, earthquakes shook and rattled Judea, his followers claimed to have seen him resurrect, they would die by their belief in him for years to come, will prophecy in his name. All of that is backed by documentation from historians and other high figures who could not stand him or his Christian movement.

Agnostics, just because you don't think we can understand the Bible, God, or Jesus, doesn't mean you can't. You just gotta try, friend. Read a book or two of people in that time.

It's ironic that you call me ignorant when your knowledge of history is completely fictional. You could fix this by simply doing what you acuse others of not doing, read a book. Or listen to one of Richard Carriers debates.
An actual book on the historicity of the bible by someone actually in the field.

I'm not agnostic on Christianity I follow what scholarship has to say and they have the truth. The giveaway that you have no idea what you're talking about is saying that all these theories have been debunked. Like it or not the actual historical field doesn't have "theories" it has a knowledge base that is very rigorous and peer reviewed and Jesus is considered a man who was a teacher. That's it, end of story. Of course some religious groups will ignore this and pretend like it's not true but that changes nothing. Some people think the world is flat also but this does not impact the related sciences in any way.
There is also a field of Greek historians, they don't care if I believe Zeus to be an actual real god and anyone interested in whats true would listen to historians not my personal beliefs.

There is absolutely no proof of Jesus' existence outside of the gospels at all.
The first mention by Paul was claimed to be knowledge recieved from scripture and revelation, which means hallucination. There is no mention of a physical Jesus or his followers.

All of the outside mentions of Jesus are proven forgery.

The gospels in greek start with Kata Memento which means one is quoting a source and is not the original author.
In the field all of the gospels are shown to be taken from Mark and each gospel adds more and more myth.

We also know that Christianity is just another of the mystery religions that introduced the idea of a personal redeemer demigod. It's actually the last in a long line. They won't teach you this in church.

There is so much you don't seem to understand about the history of the bible, I can't even begin to cover them all.
There will always be a few diehard Christians I guess who will believe what they want, it doesn't matter, what the experts say is still going to be the actual truth.
If you choose not to believe in germs then the field of biology will not change and neither will the current knowledge of the bible.



As to archeology:

William Dever, Professor Emeritus at the University of Arizona, has investigated the archeology of the ancient Near East for more than 30 years and authored almost as many books on the subject. In the following interview, Dever describes some of the most significant archeological finds related to the Hebrew Bible, including his own hot-button discovery that the Israelites' God was linked to a female goddess called Asherah.


"William Dever: From the beginnings of what we call biblical archeology, perhaps 150 years ago, scholars, mostly western scholars, have attempted to use archeological data to prove the Bible. And for a long time it was thought to work. [William Foxwell] Albright, the great father of our discipline, often spoke of the "archeological revolution." Well, the revolution has come but not in the way that Albright thought. The truth of the matter today is that archeology raises more questions about the historicity of the Hebrew Bible and even the New Testament than it provides answers, and that's very disturbing to some people.

We want to make the Bible history. Many people think it has to be history or nothing. But there is no word for history in the Hebrew Bible. In other words, what did the biblical writers think they were doing? Writing objective history? No. That's a modern discipline. They were telling stories. They wanted you to know what these purported events mean.

The Bible is didactic literature; it wants to teach, not just to describe. We try to make the Bible something it is not, and that's doing an injustice to the biblical writers. They were good historians, and they could tell it the way it was when they wanted to, but their objective was always something far beyond that. "



www.pbs.org...

a reply to: joelr

The first mention by Paul was claimed to be knowledge recieved from scripture and revelation, which means hallucination. There is no mention of a physical Jesus or his followers.

Actually Paul is probably the best evidence of Jesus... (sadly)

He writes that he actually met peter and James "brother of the lord"

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Seede
Jesus Christ told his followers to choose whether to follow him or not.

And yet, they cannot choose to do so.

For the Father in heaven decides who will hear and understand the words of Jesus, and thus follow, and who will not.

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. -- KJV, John 10:25

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. -- KJV, John 10:26

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: -- KJV, John 10:27

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. --- KJV, John 10:28

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. -- KJV, John 10:29

So, at the end of the day, it's all GOD's choice.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Seede
Jesus Christ told his followers to choose whether to follow him or not.

And yet, they cannot choose to do so.

For the Father in heaven decides who will hear and understand the words of Jesus, and thus follow, and who will not.

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. -- KJV, John 10:25

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. -- KJV, John 10:26

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: -- KJV, John 10:27

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. --- KJV, John 10:28

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. -- KJV, John 10:29

So, at the end of the day, it's all GOD's choice.

I have to disagree. God doesn't determine who hears and understands Jesus. Free will does. His "sheep" were those that chose to put faith in Jesus' words.

To say that God had pre-determined, chosen people was the exact opposite of what Jesus taught.