Flat Earth is a Front for Intelligent Design

originally posted by: intrptr
I didn't say mutations weren't happening or that they weren't negative. They happen even more nowadays because of the toxins in the environment and the decay of the Genome. We are devolving, not getting better.

That's flat out false. What evidence do you have to suggest that we are "devolving" whatever that means. Genes mutate and change, they don't decay.

Preservation of species is favored by the programming, I don't see elephants, giraffes or lions changing, at all. They were made as well they could be.

Again, proof of programming is needed. Elephants, giraffes and lions have all changed substantially in the past few million years. You are just making stuff up at this point and appealing to your personal beliefs, you aren't giving anything of substance.

You want evolution, testable progress, follow mans inventions, like flight for instance. From kitty hawk to jumbo jet, that is evolution, by design, by engineers.

No.

Still can't hold a candle to the simplest of life forms. Life is different, life processes aren't random generated.

And you still have shown no evidence of this.

Ignore the double helix of DNA code.

Ignore the abiogenesis experiments regarding DNA self assembly of the double helix.

And btw:

Look, even the simplest of life reproduction cycles-- cell division, is a very specific 'process'. Which can't go wrong in the slightest or the cell either won't divide or will divide and cease to be reproductive, due to mutations, a negative outcome.

This is false. Cells can experience hundreds of mutations during replication due to copy errors, and most of the time there is not a negative outcome. Sorry but as badly as you want it to be true there is no evidence of a designer.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: peter vlar

For someone who wants to be up to date on all the modern technology, you purposely ignore any modern science that doesn't go along with your magical programmer hypothesis (which isn't even a hypothesis in the scientific sense because it isn't testable).

I didn't say mutations weren't happening or that they weren't negative.

Maybe you should reread what you wrote then, because you are as usual just sliding the Goal posts down the field

even the simplest of life reproduction cycles-- cell division, is a very specific 'process'. Which can't go wrong in the slightest or the cell either won't divide or will divide and cease to be reproductive, due to mutations, a negative outcome

Is it starting to come back now? You said cell division is a very specific process which can't go wrong in the slightest or the cell either won't divide or if it does, ceases to be reproductive, duento mutations, a negative outcome.

To me that reads as if all mutations have a negative outcome. Now you're backtracking on that. Which is it?

They happen even more nowadays because of the toxins in the environment and the decay of the Genome. We are devolving, not getting better.

Citation for that? I'll let you in on a little secret, there's no such thing as devolution. You're giving out your personal opinions as if they're fact based and there's nothing to support it.

Preservation of species is favored by the programming, I don't see elephants, giraffes or lions changing, at all. They were made as well they could be.

You don't see it because you're not looking because the hanges aren't evident in both the genomes, living specimens and the fossil record. If you want to dispute it, put up some evidence. So far I see a lot of hot air but no balloon.

You want evolution, testable progress, follow mans inventions, like flight for instance. From kitty hawk to jumbo jet, that is evolution, by design, by engineers.

Smoke and mirrors. Why not address the genetic data and the fossil record instead of trying to distract from it?

Still can't hold a candle to the simplest of life forms. Life is different, life processes aren't random generated.

You keep talking but you're not doing any citing. It must be a terrible burden to go through life knowing more than every biologist, geneticist et al You're right about one thing though, life IS different. There is evidence that it can occur on its own. None of that applies tonyour artificial examples.

Of course thats just my own opinion. But go ahead, hang science around your neck like a mill stone, again.

Hanging anything on my neck is also nothing but your opinion. All I do is follow the repeatable, testable evidence while you just dismiss it out of hand because it disagrees with your theological sensibilities.

Ignore the double helix of DNA code.

I'm ignoring nothing. It's an amazing bit of biochemistry, I totally agree. But despite your wonderful sermon, I havent seen an iota of evidence supporting any sort of programmer despite your insistence otherwise.

a reply to: Myollinir

When I read the headline for this posting, I could not help but think:

Hey, I know a little about design... now where is the intelligent part ???

a reply to: Barcs

What evidence do you have to suggest that we are "devolving" whatever that means.

Your denial that Genes aren't encoded for one. Is that the finest scientific minds can come up with?

Way way devolved in thinking.

a reply to: peter vlar

Why not address the genetic data and the fossil record instead of trying to distract from it?

The 'fossil record' is disconnected, can drive a truck thru the assumptions, none of which explain origins either.

You an electric mud puddle groupie? How presumptuous is that...

Done wth this, your posts are atypical, becoming longer and more abusive, as disconnected as the fossil 'record'.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Barcs

What evidence do you have to suggest that we are "devolving" whatever that means.

Your denial that Genes aren't encoded for one. Is that the finest scientific minds can come up with?

Way way devolved in thinking.

Yeah, discussing this with you is useless, I shouldn't have responded. It's like talking to a brick wall. You strawmanned my argument big time. I denied that cells have a programmer or contain a PROGRAM. You keep deflecting away from my actual arguments to make red herrings.

Intelligence has gone up overall in the past 100 years, so you really have no argument here, but feel free to keep making stuff up. Post that evidence any day now.

originally posted by: Myollinir

originally posted by: VegHead
What biblical writings claim a flat earth? What verses?

Here's a few verses:

Earth as the center:

Joshua 10:12-13 – “…And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed…. The sun stayed in the midst of heaven,…”

Habakkuk 3:11 – “The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows….”

Ecclesiastes 1:5 – “The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.”


Stars:

Isaiah 14:13 – “…I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God…”

Matthew 24:29 – “…and the stars will fall from heaven,…”

Mark 13:25 – “..and the stars will be falling from heaven,”

1 Corinthians 15:40-41 – “..There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; “

The Sky:

Job 37:18 - “Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?”

Isaiah 40:22 – “…who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spread them like a tent to dwell in;”

Isaiah 48:13 – “my hand laid out the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; “

Psalm 148:3-4 – “Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars! Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!”


Foundation of the Earth:

1 Samuel 2:8 – “..For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world”

Job 9:6 – “who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.”

Psalms 104:5 – “Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.”

You do know that the bible is not completely litteral

I cant believe the crap atheist fundamentalists come up with

Can someone explain how everything started from nothing

Also show me some empirical evidence of evolution.
Not micro evolution, macro evolution

Please


I believe in Deja Vu

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Barcs

What evidence do you have to suggest that we are "devolving" whatever that means.

Your denial that Genes aren't encoded for one. Is that the finest scientific minds can come up with?

Way way devolved in thinking.

Yeah, discussing this with you is useless

You shouldn't have responded but like a good fundamentalist....

a reply to: Padawan Raggedyman

Can someone explain how everything started from nothing

Padawan Raggedyman, who says something can come from nothing?

To assert either;
1. Something can come from nothing; or
2. Something cannot come from nothing

is an ignorance fallacy.

There has never been a 'nothing' that humans have found or examined.

So to assert something about a 'nothing' is really really stupid youngling.

Your home schooling is showing Padawan #2.

Master Coomba

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Myollinir

originally posted by: VegHead
What biblical writings claim a flat earth? What verses?

Here's a few verses:

Earth as the center:

Joshua 10:12-13 – “…And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed…. The sun stayed in the midst of heaven,…”

Habakkuk 3:11 – “The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows….”

Ecclesiastes 1:5 – “The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.”


Stars:

Isaiah 14:13 – “…I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God…”

Matthew 24:29 – “…and the stars will fall from heaven,…”

Mark 13:25 – “..and the stars will be falling from heaven,”

1 Corinthians 15:40-41 – “..There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; “

The Sky:

Job 37:18 - “Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?”

Isaiah 40:22 – “…who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spread them like a tent to dwell in;”

Isaiah 48:13 – “my hand laid out the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; “

Psalm 148:3-4 – “Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars! Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!”


Foundation of the Earth:

1 Samuel 2:8 – “..For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world”

Job 9:6 – “who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.”

Psalms 104:5 – “Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.”

You do know that the bible is not completely litteral

I cant believe the crap atheist fundamentalists come up with

I love how anyone who doesn't believe what you do is magically an atheist fundamentalist. Your narratives lack of deviation from thread to thread is one of the few fundamentals I see regularly.

Can someone explain how everything started from nothing

Can you cite a Scientific Theory that makes the claim of "something from nothing"? Because there isn't one out there. No, not even the Big Bang makes such a grandiose claim as you do.

[/mquote]Also show me some empirical evidence of evolution.
Not micro evolution, macro evolution

Been there done that. It's just an exercise in straw man building an goal post moving. You aren't actually interested in evidence and your mind is made up. You know this, I know this, anyone who has posted in ATS for longer than a week knows this. Why pretend you would actually look at any evidence when with a wave of your hand cum magic wand it, just goes away?

Please

My thoughts exactly

I believe in Deja Vu.

No that's just the echo of the ocean in your head (obscure song lyric nobody will get like you and the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis).

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Myollinir

originally posted by: VegHead
What biblical writings claim a flat earth? What verses?

Here's a few verses:

Earth as the center:

Joshua 10:12-13 – “…And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed…. The sun stayed in the midst of heaven,…”

Habakkuk 3:11 – “The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows….”

Ecclesiastes 1:5 – “The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.”


Stars:

Isaiah 14:13 – “…I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God…”

Matthew 24:29 – “…and the stars will fall from heaven,…”

Mark 13:25 – “..and the stars will be falling from heaven,”

1 Corinthians 15:40-41 – “..There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; “

The Sky:

Job 37:18 - “Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?”

Isaiah 40:22 – “…who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spread them like a tent to dwell in;”

Isaiah 48:13 – “my hand laid out the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; “

Psalm 148:3-4 – “Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars! Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!”


Foundation of the Earth:

1 Samuel 2:8 – “..For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world”

Job 9:6 – “who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.”

Psalms 104:5 – “Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.”

You do know that the bible is not completely litteral

I cant believe the crap atheist fundamentalists come up with

I love how anyone who doesn't believe what you do is magically an atheist fundamentalist. Your narratives lack of deviation from thread to thread is one of the few fundamentals I see regularly.

Can someone explain how everything started from nothing

Can you cite a Scientific Theory that makes the claim of "something from nothing"? Because there isn't one out there. No, not even the Big Bang makes such a grandiose claim as you do.

[/mquote]Also show me some empirical evidence of evolution.
Not micro evolution, macro evolution

Been there done that. It's just an exercise in straw man building an goal post moving. You aren't actually interested in evidence and your mind is made up. You know this, I know this, anyone who has posted in ATS for longer than a week knows this. Why pretend you would actually look at any evidence when with a wave of your hand cum magic wand it, just goes away?

Please

My thoughts exactly

I believe in Deja Vu.

No that's just the echo of the ocean in your head (obscure song lyric nobody will get like you and the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis).

Is that it, a personal attack

Show some courage buddy, answer the questions or walk away again, cower away

Fundamentalists is a favorite word.
It's about people who disagree, isn't that what you are doing
You religious fundamentalists are the worst

And PV you are more religious than any I have met, just not god religious, you are into your own religion.
Toodles

a reply to: Padawan Raggedyman

Padawan #2, you dont answer direct questions. Why is that? Fundy much?

To disregard science is to be an ignorant fallacious fool.

And to answer your question of 'Can someone explain how everything started from nothing'...

Isnt your answer God?

'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.'

What was before the beginning in this fallacious example Padawan?.... freakin nothing.

But then your home schooled. Know wonder your full of fallacious and contradictory beliefs.

Master Coomba

a reply to: peter vlar

I love how anyone who doesn't believe what you do is magically an atheist fundamentalist.

What a hypocrite. Anyone who does't believe like you do in evolution is automatically a religious fundamentalist.

Can you cite a Scientific Theory that makes the claim of "something from nothing"? Because there isn't one out there. No, not even the Big Bang makes such a grandiose claim as you do.

Those are the biggest holes in "Scientific Theory"; where did life come from, what came before the big bang? Why people shrug when science talks theory... theory is what religious fairy tales rely on, too.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: peter vlar

I love how anyone who doesn't believe what you do is magically an atheist fundamentalist.

What a hypocrite. Anyone who does't believe like you do in evolution is automatically a religious fundamentalist.

Can you cite a Scientific Theory that makes the claim of "something from nothing"? Because there isn't one out there. No, not even the Big Bang makes such a grandiose claim as you do.

Those are the biggest holes in "Scientific Theory"; where did life come from, what came before the big bang? Why people shrug when science talks theory... theory is what religious fairy tales rely on, too.

intrptr

Your post is nothing short of ignorance.

Goodman Peter Vlar never spoke about how life began, aka abiogenesis. This is not evolution.

What came before the big bang in actual science is unknow and not stated!

Theory and Scientific Theory are different.

I will give you a $1,000 dollars if you jump off a 15 story building and prove the 'theory of gravity' is wrong! Promise.

Religion is a hypothesis at best. Not a theory or scientific theory. Still in the dark ages.

If not back up your religion with empirical evidence aka science!

Coomba98

Funny, how the premise of this thread has been completely derailed by religious nuts again. It's like they specifically are trying to distract you away from the fact that YECers and Flat earthers are the same people. What possible motivation could they have for that? LOL we know. Nice try guys.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: peter vlar

I love how anyone who doesn't believe what you do is magically an atheist fundamentalist.

What a hypocrite. Anyone who does't believe like you do in evolution is automatically a religious fundamentalist.

You love making up things to distract for your inability to understand basic fundamental aspects of how science works. I understand. It's embarrassing and you would rather resort to straeman arguments and ad hominem fallacies as opposed to addressing the actual issues.

Let's give it a try.,,, Did I call you a fundamentalist? Because you're u DID call me an atheist fundamentalist. See my quote above.

Please cite and quote where I called you a religious fundamentalist. Because if I did AND it's not true, then I owe you an apology. I'll put it here in black and white. So let's address this right now and please don't waffle, show me the citation where I called you a religious fundamentalist.

Now let's talk about uour insistence that there is a programmer of DNA. Is the basis of your belief a result of your theological leanings or not? Ball is in your court so no goal post moving, no distractig, just answer the question. If I am wrong, I owe you an apology

Can you cite a Scientific Theory that makes the claim of "something from nothing"? Because there isn't one out there. No, not even the Big Bang makes such a grandiose claim as you do.

Those are the biggest holes in "Scientific Theory" where did life come from,

Abiogenesis is a hypothesis not a theory so you're wrsong yet again

what came before the big bang?

I don't know, physicists don't know and no scientific theory addresses that so what specifically is your question here? Or ian your gripe that science only deals in facts and there's no evidence for the things your pissy about so we don't promote theories about things there is no evidence for. Something you haven't done yourself. But I'm the glhypoctite?'that's rich! What a joke this apparently is.

Why people shrug when science talks theory... theory is what religious fairy tales rely on, too.

Religion doesn't utilize theories that are testable, repeatable and verifiable. You know, the hallmarks of the scientific method? But since you call out religious fairy tales, you must be an ancient aliens proponent then or some other hypothetical scenario that you have still provided zero evidence of while maligning me. So going back to what I said earlier, I do indeed apologize for accusing you of basing your views in religion and theology. The abrahamic faiths actually have some archaeological corroboration for a few of the events mentioned in their scripture so they're actually ahead of you as you have not provided a scintilla of evidence for your mysterious programmer. Just conjecture laden hyperbole. You've been asked repeatedly so I don't know if you're u were expecting a rousing chorus of Come All Ye Faithful or what but I just want evidence and citations s I can engage in due diligence. Yet you refuse to even address this notion. How perplexing.

a reply to: coomba98

Ignorance is not reading my post or knowing my post history about both religion and evolution.

a reply to: peter vlar

Now let's talk about uour insistence that there is a programmer of DNA.

All I said in the beginning was science refers to "Genetic Code" .

What does that imply to you?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: peter vlar

Now let's talk about uour insistence that there is a programmer of DNA.

All I said in the beginning was science refers to "Genetic Code" .

What does that imply to you?

This is what you guys do, you can't argue against a single point he made. So instead you isolate one line and repeat your original premise taking us all the back to the beginning starting the cycle over again with your over generalized simplified semantics. Genetic code alone does not require a programmer by any stretch of the imagination. He's asking you to demonstrate why a programmer is required. Stop diverting.

He already clearly explained in detail what that implies in this post and you completely ignored it. Do you really expect him to repeat that all again, so you can just poopoo it away like you did earlier? I'm really trying not to be a jerk about this, but at least try to be honest so the conversation can progress.

a reply to: intrptr

I think Barcs reply covers it pretty well and much more congenially than I likely would have put it. You're not actually interested in a dialogue. You are about pushing a narrative that there is no evidence to support so instead of addressing the flaws in your own perspective, you simply move the goal posts in a circle until people become dizzy. That's not a dialogue or a discussion. But you already know that or you would address the specifics and cease the game playing.