Flat Earth is a Front for Intelligent Design

a reply to: Myollinir

What would really happen if it became accepted that the world is flat?

A few headlines until a Kardashian has a wardrobe malfunction.

There's clear benefits however.
Countless industries would save a lot of money not having to fake evidence. There's a lot of evidence for a round Earth meaning a lot of falsified data that someone had to make up. They've been faking this evidence for 100's of years too.

I would be really disappointed with the Illuminati if they're spending all their money with the majestic goal of...

"Wouldn't it be cool if we could convince people we live on a ball in space"

originally posted by: VegHead

originally posted by: Myollinir
... It is repeatedly attempted to circle logic back to the Christian Bible to show how it supports a flat earth and since we can observe experiments that would reflect a flat type earth then that would verify the biblical writings... And so here they are back and swinging with something new!

Thoughts?

What biblical writings claim a flat earth? What verses?

There are only two that I know of that even remotely suggest it. Four Corners

Isaiah 11:12

I agree with the OP in almost everything. The bible verses are a stretch for supporting flat earth, but geocentrism definitely.

I caught on to this a while back as well, and when I decided to do some research into where these arguments came from, it goes back to Flat Earth Society, which was created in the 1800s by religious fundamentalists. The vast majority of FE videos today use the same arguments from FES to the T. No surprise they bring up that one experiment from the 1800s while ignoring all research done since then. They also use same type of fallacies that young earth creationists use and are generally quite arrogant in their beliefs. YECers / ID supporters / FE believers are the same people. Granted there are always a few that don't fit the stereotype, but the vast majority are definitely the same and they originated from the same ideologies. Almost every FE video on youtube brings up god or creator at some point. Not all of them, mind you, but quite a bunch of them.

You can tell by the way they argue:

1. Bring up a so called "proof" for FE
2. Somebody replies and debunks it citing resources and science
3. The FE believer offers no reply except denial and then changes the subject to another "proof" for FE
4. Flaws in the worldview are never addressed, they are denied, and then the cycle just repeats again.

It is exactly like YEC. They dismiss and deny all evidence in favor of a belief system. They never offer a rebuttal to any counterpoints or explanation for the scientific research. They just pretend it's all fake and that they know more about science than scientists, and that Nasa does nothing but make fake pictures.

It is not coincidence in the least that just as YEC starts dying, FE starts rising again. It's not a new concept, but it's the latest thing that creationists can cling to in order to preserve a dying belief system. Climate change deniers are usually the same people as well but not on the same level as FE & Creationism. Climate change denial is definitely influenced by the idea that god gave man the earth to do whatever he wants with, and that the apocalypse is coming and it won't matter anyway if we destroy it. This is the same type of narrow mindedness.

And btw flat earth model is beyond debunked. The visible stars in the southern hemisphere are hard proof without even citing Nasa or science. If you look south from south africa or argentina, you can see the same central stars in the sky, but on a flat model, south points in different directions, so you would have to explain how a star can be in 2 places at once. There is also the problem with being able to travel from Australia to South africa in around 13 hours. This is approximately the same time as going from NY to Japan, but on a flat earth model the distance is like 3x longer. Then you have the problem of increased distances around the southern hemisphere. For example it increases the miles across Australia by a lot due to the stretching of the globe to fit the model, but those numbers don't add up in reality. The idea is a complete joke. Any flat earther can take a flight tour of Antarctica, or verify the flight times or southern hemisphere stars themselves, but they never do it. They refuse to accept any other possibility but theirs, yet won't test it themselves. All the believers could easily start a gofundme and hire a pilot or travel to the southern hemisphere. The problem is they don't care about truth. Ask any one of them to name a single thing that would falsify flat earth in their eyes and they will not give you anything. I think most are trolls now, but they definitely originated from Christian fundamentalists.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Many Christians as well as none Christians fail to consider that the consensus back in OT times was that the earth was flat . That is what the "scientists" of that day thought and so it was a culture norm that the majority of the known world thought to be correct . I was taught in school that even during Columbus's day people thought you could sail off the edge .

That's actually a myth. Flat earth was never a scientific view, it was believed because it appears that way to the untrained eye. Even in the middle ages, prior to Columbus, flat earth was never consensus among anybody, even hard core Christians. Geocentrism, yes, but not flat earth. And don't get me wrong, many ancient cultures believed it, but it's a complete myth that people in the middle ages thought the earth was flat. Most did not.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
I would just add that general evolution has never been replicated in a lab either.

I don't want to turn this into an evolution debate, but you are 100% wrong there. Speciation has been done in a lab. Putting evolution (300,000+ research papers, and tons of evidence) on the same level as ID (complete guesswork and assumptions) is absolutely ludicrous. They aren't even close to equal possibilities.

a reply to: Barcs

I'm not trying to put them on the same level. I don't think it's a binary issue. There are more alternatives.

Could you please direct me to a study where speciation was achieved in a lab, even on single cell basis?

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: Barcs

I'm not trying to put them on the same level. I don't think it's a binary issue. There are more alternatives.

Could you please direct me to a study where speciation was achieved in a lab, even on single cell basis?

I apologize if I misinterpreted you, but when you respond to a comment about not having an experiment for ID with not having an experiment for evolution it sounds very much like putting them on the same level. Plus why would not being able to prove one of them lend credence to the other? They both really have nothing to do with one another.

Ecoli speciation

Fruit Fly speciation

A list of much more:

www.talkorigins.org...

a reply to: Myollinir

Ummm

I think there's a grand effort to have people on earth argue about EVERY POSSIBLE THING, while the elites take the final big steps behoove the scenes...

....and this is the final, most absurd one...

To have arguments about whether the Earth is flat or not...

It's just a distraction.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Myollinir

It was evident that in the realm of debate and science that Intelligent Design was losing massive amounts of traction toward human origins

I think its gaining.

Question: DNA is genetic code, right? So who encoded that?

The question "who encoded that" needs a lot of assumptions.

"How did the code come about?" is a better question.

Thats like saying how did a computer software program 'come about'. DNA is so much more advanced than mere computer code anyway. For one, its alive.

Or another analogy, how did a 747 Jumbo jet "come about"? Assuming you meant 'evolved' thats like saying it designed, assembled and flew all by itself.

a reply to: bknapple32

Then I suppose I could argue the sun is in fact the center if there is no center, by fact that we revolve around the sun.

If the Universe is infinite then everywhere is the center, and nowhere is the center.

You can only be centered in you.

The flat Earth theory has been around for centuries. It certainly is NOT new, and didn't come along 2 years ago, nor started with Christianity. Christians who believe in a "flat Earth," are a minority. There are non-Christians who also believe in the "flat Earth" theory.

islamic scholars found the earth was round through mathematics, bede had a guess we live on an orb while isidore said it was a disc.

the catholic church and ergo other christian faiths, still haven't corrected the bible's claim that the moon is mere mood lighting and the sun isn't a star just a brighter light so using the bible for any scientific base is an epic fail.

Conspiracy theorists who have taking that step over the proverbial edge, who start to believe that every thing is in fact a conspiracy. Those are these people who believe in a flat earth, and use everything conspiracy related to either prove or deflect their points about flat earth.

These are the people on the cusp of mental illness because of the shear amount of conspiracy they believe...

to them the whole world is a lie... and its not pretty

a reply to: intrptr

"a 747 jump jet"? Now that would be cool.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: intrptr

"a 747 jump jet"? Now that would be cool.

Lol, derp thanks. Bit they did evolve themselves and they do 'jump' from airfield to airfield. Like frogs.

a reply to: Barcs

Geocentrism, yes, but not flat earth.

This may be the nail in the coffin for the ID backers ... because they always cite Geocentric verses as though they support the FLAT EARTH.

A VERY good point indeed! I believe there was only one quote from Isaiah that says "flat" or "rolled like clay" that someone linked earlier in the thread - but I NEVER see that as a verse used to back up the FE arguments. Incredible deduction and I think it really unhinges FE from Biblical Defense (although I've unhinged biblical defense for everything in life after seeing multiple versions that leave text out or add text, and also weighing that holy book versus any other holy book on the planet who claims it is the truth).

Thank you for adding to the thread!!

originally posted by: prevenge
a reply to: Myollinir

Ummm

I think there's a grand effort to have people on earth argue about EVERY POSSIBLE THING, while the elites take the final big steps behoove the scenes...

....and this is the final, most absurd one...

To have arguments about whether the Earth is flat or not...

It's just a distraction.

Yeah this is a legitimate point as well. Everywhere we are divided and unable to pull ourselves together enough to form a decent coalition to prevent the theft that is taking place upon our labor and the fruits we produce. Not only FE but the same old tricks have been used for generations and we still take the bait. It's like fishing with the same baits and lures forever and the fish never learn. So is the human condition... haha

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: Myollinir

I'm not sure what is more annoying the theory or its proponents. I think the same argument could be said for a lot of the topics for discussion on this website. Anything to do with the Anunaki, ET's as demons, end times, etc.. You always have to check your source.

I bone I do pick with your post however is, relative to the Intelligent Design argument you state:

It had no experiments to confirm

I would just add that general evolution has never been replicated in a lab either.

Are you sure about that? Honestly, the only way to believe or promote something like that is by misstating the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis as some pseudo-Lamarckian woo that doesn't actually reflect 21st Century science. The bottom line is that we can put every one of the mechanisms vital for evolution to take place to the test in an objective, repeatable form, starting with mutations and ending with natural selection and speciation.

myxo.css.msu.edu...
Through the Lenski long term evolutionary experiment which is currently over 50,000 generations removed from the initial organisms used at the beginning of the experimental. The dumbed down version is that the basic premise of mutations is that random mutations occur during replication of genes. On average, every 100,000 or so base pairs, there is some sort of error. Base pairs are missing, doubled up or the wrong base pairs are copied. We can take any organism with DNA, study its genome before and after replication, note all the errors and do it again and again. As it continues to replicate, we’ll see that the mutations change from replication to replication and there doesn’t seem to be an order in which the mutations take place. Hence, random mutations are repeatable under laboratory condition and are hence, science.

If you like, I'm happy to continue to explain other testable and repeatable aspects of MES but let's be honest, your claim is easily dispelled and I can back it up with appropriate citations as opposed to blanket statements based solely in opinion.



ETA never mind. Barcs beat me to it.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson

I would just add that general evolution has never been replicated in a lab either.

What do you mean by "General Evolution"???

Because I'm pretty sure we've recorded evolution in the lab many times within plants and animals and insects and bacteria.

a reply to: Myollinir

Well, however, the verses you quote are in error and are not the preserved word of God, in this generation.

There are many verses in the preserved word of God that say the the Stars, the Sun, the weather are circular and travel in a circuit that is in a round fashion. That actually proves that many years before Christ men knew the earth was rounded, I say rounded because if you remove the atmosphere and the water it is not round. It is the atmosphere, the water and the rotation give it the rounded look, and cause the sea to move and the weather patterns to circle around the earth.

Psalm 19:2-7 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,(the sun) and rejoiceth as a strong man(the sun) to run a race. His(the sun) going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his (the sun) circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.[/]
Isa 40:21-22 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: