If the USA doesn't give 100% 'Basic' Medical Coverage to its People - It is Evil

a reply to: DBCowboy

Is socialism a police and fire force in town? Or an army or FEMA that helps in hurricanes or public roads and bridges?


If the economy allowed us to afford health care we wouldn’t need insurance.


Also, is socialism the fact that we have to buy car insurance...Try riding around without it.

a reply to: Groot

I don't know why churches aren't taxed now.

They tax everything else!

originally posted by: Tranceopticalinclined
Funny part is,

You'd think the nation of capitalism, would want to keep it's population healthy, and long living, for the simple and plain fact, you get to harness more tax money from them while saving that money that would otherwise been spent on costly treatments for the " oh shat, their really sick " stuff.

I mean, even the deathstar would have done this. So would the 1984 crowd.

But in reality, our government is much much more stupid, I'm talking retardation.

I mean, Trump being a businessman, doesn't even handle the country like a business, when if he did, we'd all be covered and working, but it's more status quo, that should speak volumes to you all, that the president doesn't control JACK!

Just the elite showing more of their hand, it's to be expected, as the younger gens take over, they aren't immune to the growing trend of people just devolving in both emotional and practical intelligence.

Idiocracy was a prophecy, not a futurmentary.

Let me be cynical as I often am - How much profit is there in being healthy? - agreed some.

But get sick, say with cancer, and you are now a star money maker for many in the healthcare industry.

Health pays, and the vitamin and supplemnet indusry is probably in the multi billion dollar range but it is dwarfed by the medical industry, which, as you might have guessed, is always trying to show 'evidence' that those vitamins you take for health are really bad for you - Occasionally that might be tue - But it is always bad for them when a nickle and dime supplement works better than a patented drug that they will make millions and millions of dollars off of.

Think about this - Most of you are probably not old enough to remeber when the cigarette commercials were 24/7 on the radio and television and the drug companies could not even legally adverstise their drugs - Flasn forward to today - No more tobacco ads and supposiedly most people have quit smoking - Then why am I being subjected to drug companies advertising 24/7 all their dangerous drugs, which they even admit have a side effect of death - And of course many of them are for cancer - Assuming you are rich or at least rich enough to afford good health insurance.

This should be the mantra of today's healthcare industry:

MONEY TALKS AND NOBODY WALKS

originally posted by: WhiteWingedMonolith

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: AlienView

Please point out in the US Constitution where its required.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

LIFE.

"This view was notably promoted by Abraham Lincoln, who considered the Declaration to be the foundation of his political philosophy and argued that it is a statement of principles through which the United States Constitution should be interpreted."

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Again point out in the US Constitution where the government is required to provide it. Anything not specifically spelled out to the federal government is reserved to the states.

a reply to: Willtell

Yes... I do pay for my own garbage pick-up. Don't you?

Where I live, the fire departments are volunteer and paid for with donations. We all contribute what we can.

Police is one of the things that taxes should be used for, but that is paid with local taxes. Federally, national defense is also paid for with taxes, which is reasonable. (National defense includes protection from terrorists, which would cover your twist of that issue.)

There are certain things that taxes should pay for, but health care is not one of them. Single people should not have to contribute to health care for families who choose to have 6 children. etc....

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: AlienView

So after clearing that up, I think everyone should be responsible for paying for their own health care. I don't think I should be forced to pay for other people's health care.

Either way, you're paying. But if the system is such that everyone is paying for each other's healthcare, and it's implemented fairly and efficiently, the cost-per-person would be less than you paying for just yourself.

The big unknown, and potential monkey-wrench, is the "fairly and efficiently" part.

a reply to: Willtell

Car Insurance?

I'm not mandated at birth to buy a ####ing car!

Look, if you can find a government that is filled with kind modest people who only want to help, then couple that with a population of people that are willing to work, aren't selfish and greedy, then socialism might work.

Might.

originally posted by: Willtell
Do you pay for your own garbage pick up?
Your own police?
Should some people get police and firemen to their home in times of distress and some not?

Look at all the LOCAL, NON-CENTRALIZED government services you just pointed out. Not federal.

Do you care, or do you realize your tax money goes to all kinds of crazy stuff you don’t even know of or might have deep reservations over

Yes, and we want those to go away too.

Like blowing up kids in the ME

Military is a federal responsibility.

Billions of dollars to Israel and Egypt

Drop in the bucket compared to Medicare/Medicaid.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Groot

I don't know why churches aren't taxed now.

They tax everything else!

In theory, the money churches get from their congregation is supposed to go towards charity, helping people, so on.

I don't disagree with taxing churches for uses of tithes that don't go back to the community. Building expansion, massive stain glassed windows, bigger parking lots, etc should be fair game.

IMO, Government enabling affordable medical care is more important than a 40 billion dollar wall between the USA and Mexico. In fact, it's more important than many things our government spends money on.

Those who pay taxes should demand this, because the government exists to serve the citizens. But, there are not enough elected politicians who prioritize things as the majority of Americans would have them do. That can change on 1.1.2019, if the voters put their thinking-caps on, when the next election season rolls around.

a reply to: AlienView

I agree totally, it would be evil not to cover basic medical needs of all U.S. citizens. Let's do it, to start let's shift money to pay for it and end all foreign aid and then let's end funding for the UN, and then let's stop funding defending in anyway allies that are threatened and let the rest of the world actually pull their weight for once. SMH that you even brought this up.

No one is turned down for medical care here, no one. If they show up at an emergency room they are treated, if they don't have the money for the continued care of their condition Medicaid kicks in and for exceptional cases of needed care they use gofundme to cover costs. With Obamacare the waiting time to see a doctor that accepts it is weeks at least, for specialists months, the few that take it.

The level of care in the U.S. has fallen a great deal since it has been instituted. If you work for a large corporation it is a different story since you're in a different category, a group plan, all is well, you're in to see the doctor within a week, all tests are mostly covered, specialists are in easy reach and referrals to them are easy.

I almost think there's a conspiracy to herd people to work for the large corporations due to this. Our govt. only wants team players evidently, if you are other than that you receive poor health care. Very telling imho. I pay $1,244.00 per month for just me, one person on Obamacare because I'm self-employed, news is saying it could go up another 30% soon.

Evil is sending all that money to other countries and not taking care of our own. Fund it with aid money, etc. Trim out all the fat.

STM

Here's what confuses me.

Some people want a socialist-styled government.

They want to use the Constitution and election process to create that.

But in order to maintain that, they'd have to get rid of the Constitution in order to keep it.

So, in essence, they are using our free society to eliminate our free society.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: AlienView

So after clearing that up, I think everyone should be responsible for paying for their own health care. I don't think I should be forced to pay for other people's health care.

Either way, you're paying. But if the system is such that everyone is paying for each other's healthcare, and it's implemented fairly and efficiently, the cost-per-person would be less than you paying for just yourself.

The big unknown, and potential monkey-wrench, is the "fairly and efficiently" part.

That is indeed a huge monkey-wrench. When has the government ever shown that they are capable of running things "fairly and efficiently"?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Here's what confuses me.

Some people want a socialist-styled government.

They want to use the Constitution and election process to create that.

But in order to maintain that, they'd have to get rid of the Constitution in order to keep it.

So, in essence, they are using our free society to eliminate our free society.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Federal, state what's the difference government is government.

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: AlienView

With Obamacare the waiting time to see a doctor that accepts it is weeks at least, for specialists months, the few that take it.
The level of care in the U.S. has fallen a great deal since it has been instituted. If you work for a large corporation it is a different story since you're in a different category, a group plan, all is well, you're in to see the doctor within a week, all tests are mostly covered, specialists are in easy reach and referrals to them is easy.

I almost think there's a conspiracy to herd people to work for the large corporations due to this. I pay $1,244.00 per month on Obamacare because I'm self-employed, news is saying it could go up another 30% soon.

Evil is sending all that money to other countries and not taking care of our own. Fund it with aid money, etc. Trim out all the fat.

STM

It's not just large corporations. Any company with a health insurance plan for its employees, receives the premier PPO Network. Even 2-person company. It's been this way for over 2 decades.

The rules and restrictions of ObamaCare relate mostly to health plans that individuals and families buy for themselves. These R and R caused the medical PPO/HMO networks for those plans to become very small, and also increased the premiums and deductibles.

In addition, if you have ObamaCare health insurance, the physician must (by law) treat you, even if your policy payment is 30 days late. Physicans/Hospitals are getting stuck with more bills not being paid, due to this "consumer protection" built into ObamaCare. Via word-of-mouth, people are increasingly learning how to use this to their advantage.

Because only 8% of America is on an ObamaCare health plan, most physicians can afford to turn these would-be patients away.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Federal, state what's the difference government is government.

Federal is centralized and distant. It tends to be one-size-fits-all and much less accountable.

State/City is local and more accessible. It tends to be more flexible to local needs and is more accountable.

That's the difference. It's why we have State/City governments to handle local needs.

EDIT: You can also move away from State/City if they mess things up enough. You can't move away from federal without leaving your country.

a reply to: 200Plus

I completely agree with this. We make our own lives, our own fate.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Willtell

Car Insurance?

I'm not mandated at birth to buy a ####ing car!

Look, if you can find a government that is filled with kind modest people who only want to help, then couple that with a population of people that are willing to work, aren't selfish and greedy, then socialism might work.

Might.

Not really. Have you looked at Sweden lately? free healthcare, free housing, jobs for those who are capable. Until they took in several thousand refugees, now their whole system is falling apart.

a reply to: carewemust

Also, if you own a portion of a company but do not receive a paycheck from them (as in my case, my brother runs the company and I take care of our parents, one is living with me and the other has Alzheimers, I receive distributions and have input to the company but am not considered an employee) you are not allowed to be on the group insurance.

My brother who runs the company thinks Obamacare is great but when I ask him to drop his group insurance and go on Obamacare if it is so good he says he has to go. SMH again. There's one in every family I guess.

Maybe we should insist that all of Congress is switched to the Obamacare of their districts and see how fast this is fixed.

STM