House Resolution 446...The Draining of the Sewer Begins Today 72717....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ketsuko
Whatever. Is that all you have to say?

Just recalling many drug legalization threads ... and religion threads is all.

Just wanted to remind everyone of the Uranium One deal and how they are indeed moving uranium outside of the US.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Grambler

So now the narrative is just Trumps people met with Russians. Well we have known that for ever. Why ius that news?

It's not. We've known for some time that it was a "thing". Again, the member I responded to simply said the Russia narrative is falling apart. Which it's not. It's absolutely true. Whether anything illegal happened remains to be seen.

If the member meant some other specific Russia narrative, they should have been specific.

You know darn well that this is not what the Russian narrative has been.

No. I'm not sure. It seems the narratives change quite a bit, from both sides, depending on how valuable the narrative is to their agenda.

Oh look, I can point to Hillarys people meeting with russians. I guess time for investigations, 24/7 news coverage, right?

You would have to provide much more context to how, when and why those meetings took place.

It is so funny watching the anti trumpers change their story.

I've not changes my story at all. I'm not sure if you are speaking to me, or just in general.

We have come from Trumps team colluding to hack and steal the election with russians, to trumps team met with russians. Unreal.

I've not said any of that, except that Trump's team did meet with the Russians. What happened from there is up for the investigators to find out.

Here is a story on Forbes about Clinton and Fusion GPS that went strangely under reported but now becomes very relevant with the sworn testimony today:

The most under covered story of Russia Gate is the interconnection between the Clinton campaign, an unregistered foreign agent of Russia headquartered in DC (Fusion GPS), and the Christopher Steele Orbis dossier. This connection has raised the question of whether Kremlin prepared the dossier as part of a disinformation campaign to sow chaos in the US political system. If ordered and paid for by Hillary Clinton associates, Russia Gate is turned on its head as collusion between Clinton operatives (not Trump’s) and Russian intelligence. Russia Gate becomes Hillary Gate.

www.forbes.com...

The GPSFusion angle is massive. Honestly though, what comes from the Awan investigation, I believe, will break the system.

I would not be surprised if information regarding ISI (Pakistan secret service) comes flooding out of that.

It is relevant to the past 2 decades of US foreign policy in Asia.

Hmmm...

a reply to: UKTruth

If that's true it's very huge. Of course it is underreported, like anything to do with Clinton and her campaign over the past couple years.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
The GPSFusion angle is massive. Honestly though, what comes from the Awan investigation, I believe, will break the system.

I would not be surprised if information regarding ISI (Pakistan secret service) comes flooding out of that.

It is relevant to the past 2 decades of US foreign policy in Asia.

Hmmm...

Here is another important point from that article:

On March 15, however, Michael Morell, the former acting CIA director, told NBC that Mr. Steele had paid the Russian intelligence sources who provided the information and never met with them directly. In other words, his sources were not only working for pay. Furthermore, Mr. Steele had no way to judge the veracity of their claims.

dbl

a reply to: Grambler

Thanks for the links.

I do recall Rand Paul saying that *somebody* told him that he was spied on by Obama but who? Last I remember from this was early May when he requested the Intel committee look into whether or not this was true. This tells me that he was told *something* by *somebody* but not shown any actual evidence.

Are you aware of any developments over the last couple months?

The Fox News article similarly cites anonymous sources claiming that Susan Rice unmasked names. As with Paul, there's no indication at all about the nature of these sources. Are they IC sources? Former IC sources? Something else entirely? It's hard to say much more than, "yep, there's an allegation."

Last I heard, she was supposed to testify to the House committee a week or so ago but that was postponed. She's also denied any wrongdoing. I'll wait to see what she has to say and if the investigation turns up anything but so far we've got accusations from anonymous sources and in neither case is there an attempt to identify even the scantest details about the sources. This could be coming straight from the Trump administration.

Then you have Kucinich. I wasn't aware of this claim from Kucinich previously. This one is more interesting because Kucinich was actually played a recording by the Washington Times. So we know that there's some substance. What he speculates is entirely plausible though it's worth mentioning that he said he doesn't believe that Obama had him under surveillance but rather a "deep state" leaker, leaked the recording which would have been intercepted communication as part of the surveillance of Qaddafi's son. And that it was done so because of his positions on Libya.

He makes some good points in defense of his hypothesis though here again, according to the Washington Times — literally created to push conservative propaganda — the recording was recovered from Tripoli. I wouldn't be shocked if Kucinich's hypothesis is right. It does make the most sense.

All of this is indeed concerning and I'm all for investigating it and supposedly, Congress is doing just that. However, none of it substantiates the specific claims of Trump nor does any of it have anything to do with this amendment stunt.

There are already investigations ongoing. Rice is already cooperating and has agreed to testify. Anything the WH had was handed off pretty much immediately.

So in summation, while I'm still of the opinion that the unmasking "scandal" will fall flat, I'm open to what the investigations turn up but as for this hijacked resolution, I still firmly hold that it's at best a political stunt and at worst, Gaetz and cohorts running interference for the administration.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Jonjonj
The GPSFusion angle is massive. Honestly though, what comes from the Awan investigation, I believe, will break the system.

I would not be surprised if information regarding ISI (Pakistan secret service) comes flooding out of that.

It is relevant to the past 2 decades of US foreign policy in Asia.

Hmmm...

Here is another important point from that article:

On March 15, however, Michael Morell, the former acting CIA director, told NBC that Mr. Steele had paid the Russian intelligence sources who provided the information and never met with them directly. In other words, his sources were not only working for pay. Furthermore, Mr. Steele had no way to judge the veracity of their claims.

Of course the only logical conclusion for what appears to have been going on is an op. An agenda, to try to cover tracks.
I said somewhere, on here I think, that the DNC and affiliates wrote cheques. I guess we will find out.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Riddle me this, what changed your tune?

This is going to go back back back...
Further back in history than perhaps we all are even assuming!


Eta
And it's nice to be colluding with you, as opposing oppsosites
your insight is outstanding and much appreciated around here
🇺🇸🤘✌️

a reply to: UKTruth

That's a horribly written opinion piece. "May have been paid for by the Clinton campaign!" It may also have been paid for by green unicorns from Saturn. I'd look to see what deep pocket Never-Trumpers might have approached the pro-Clinton folks.

Nonetheless, the Fusion GPS involvement with Veselnitskaya and Veselnitskaya's meeting with DTJ mean that Glenn Simpson and the activities of Fusion GPS are already under a microscope, regardless of any initial suspicions about the nature of the Steele dossier. I don't think Mueller would flinch from exposing anything untoward from the Team Clinton anymore than he would Team Trump.

It would turn out to be quite something if the Russians were playing both sides. It could be really interesting depending on who was footing the bill. Imagine somebody like Robert Mercer being behind the funding of the original Fusion GPS oppo research. He was after all, pro-Cruz right up until Trump clenched the nomination.

So does this mean you're now on board with the Mueller investigation?

a reply to: theantediluvian

All of this is indeed concerning and I'm all for investigating it and supposedly, Congress is doing just that. However, none of it substantiates the specific claims of Trump nor does any of it have anything to do with this amendment stunt. 

Indeed it is concerning, but it certainly is not the most concerning thing about the issues.
The thing that is most concerning is that people were begging for an exposé on government malpractises. The whole reason Trump even got into power isn't because of a f***in wall, it is because a lot of people actually saw, in real time, the manipulation by the msm and said f*** you!
They want to clean up politics and you should want that too. But you don't. Why is that?

And before you even try you can forget naiveté.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: UKTruth

That's a horribly written opinion piece. "May have been paid for by the Clinton campaign!" It may also have been paid for by green unicorns from Saturn. I'd look to see what deep pocket Never-Trumpers might have approached the pro-Clinton folks.

Nonetheless, the Fusion GPS involvement with Veselnitskaya and Veselnitskaya's meeting with DTJ mean that Glenn Simpson and the activities of Fusion GPS are already under a microscope, regardless of any initial suspicions about the nature of the Steele dossier. I don't think Mueller would flinch from exposing anything untoward from the Team Clinton anymore than he would Team Trump.

It would turn out to be quite something if the Russians were playing both sides. It could be really interesting depending on who was footing the bill. Imagine somebody like Robert Mercer being behind the funding of the original Fusion GPS oppo research. He was after all, pro-Cruz right up until Trump clenched the nomination.

So does this mean you're now on board with the Mueller investigation?

The tenet of the Forbes story is that the Russians may have been playing both sides.
What has been testified to is that Fusion GPS are an agent of the Russians and corroborating evidence from more than the testimony today regarding previous efforts by FusionGPS mirrors the type of accusations they levelled at Trump.

We do know that the Clinton campaign actually took over from the nevertrump movement in working with FusionGPS, so based on testimony at least, the Clinton campaign AND the nevertrump group were colluding with Russian agents for political gain in the US.

The problems with the Mueller investigation do not stem from the lack of requirement to investigate the corrupt underbelly of Washington DC, rather the one sided and politically partisan scope of the investigation.

Just went back to watch the video of the amendment again and had to laugh at Cohen....he almost blew a gasket.

Hearing some of them saying that their constituents were only concerned with Russian collusion with Trump was hilarious....especially considering what districts they are in.

I can't wait until the next part is played out passing the House and this takes full effect.

a reply to: Jonjonj

They want to clean up politics and you should want that too. But you don't. Why is that?

I don't want politics cleaned up because I don't support Trump? Gosh. I would say that the reason I would never support Trump is because he's only making things worse as I knew he would because he's a lying, corrupt, douche bag billionaire crony and he's been that same asshole for his entire adult life.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and his past behavior should lead any sane person to realize that he's no anti-establishment drainer of swamps.

And you think that the MSM is bad? Have you ever stopped to objectively consider how much worse the "alternative media" is? How many 100+ flag True Pundit citing threads are on this very site?

It seems to me that maybe you have good intentions but ultimately, you're easily manipulated into accepting as better, the worst of two choices and acting against your own interests.

So my question to you is why are you so damn gullible?

He's ramping up corruption right in our faces. You might not be chanting "build the wall" but that doesn't mean you're any less deluded chanting "drain the swamp."

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

So now the narrative is just Trumps people met with Russians. Well we have known that for ever. Why ius that news?

It's not. We've known for some time that it was a "thing". Again, the member I responded to simply said the Russia narrative is falling apart. Which it's not. It's absolutely true. Whether anything illegal happened remains to be seen.

If the member meant some other specific Russia narrative, they should have been specific.

You know darn well that this is not what the Russian narrative has been.

No. I'm not sure. It seems the narratives change quite a bit, from both sides, depending on how valuable the narrative is to their agenda.

Oh look, I can point to Hillarys people meeting with russians. I guess time for investigations, 24/7 news coverage, right?

You would have to provide much more context to how, when and why those meetings took place.

It is so funny watching the anti trumpers change their story.

I've not changes my story at all. I'm not sure if you are speaking to me, or just in general.

We have come from Trumps team colluding to hack and steal the election with russians, to trumps team met with russians. Unreal.

I've not said any of that, except that Trump's team did meet with the Russians. What happened from there is up for the investigators to find out.

I am not referring to you specifically.

I guess i will just say that I assumed the person you were responding to was referring to the idea that Trump colluded with russia when he said the narrative was collapsing.

That seems to be the only narrative worth anything, as the narrative that some trump people talked with russians is only not a crime at all, it is so insignificant that you could replace trumps team with any team for a candidate for president, and Russia with any country, and it would probably be true.

So it seems obvious the narrative that poster was reffering to was the collusion narrative.

a reply to: theantediluvian

As always good conversation.

Yeah I too am of a wait and see approach. But it seems as if at the very least that the courts reprimanded Obamas admin for unconstitutional unmasking in general. It remains to be seen how much of that was directed at political opponents.

Even today there are articles on it.

“We have found evidence that current and former government officials had easy access to U.S. person information and that it is possible that they used this information to achieve partisan political purposes, including the selective, anonymous leaking of such information,” Nunes wrote in the letter to Coats.

The letter was provided to The Hill from a source in the intelligence community.

thehill.com...

Now granted, I will want to see this proof myself and not just take Nunes word for it. But there does seem to be a problem with Obamas people unmasking, and we know Obama made unprecedented moves to have agencies share info about trumps team, and there were leaks about Trumps team.

This is all circumstantial at this point, but it is very troubling.

But again, although Trump was hyperbolic saying Obama wiretapped him, it seems that the jury is still out as to rather this is rooted in some truth.

Apparently, Fusion GPS also worked for Venezuela.

Thor Halvorssen is the head of Human Rights Foundation, which focuses on defense of political rights in authoritarian countries. Halvorssen’s testimony alleges that Fusion GPS operated a smear campaign against journalists who threatened to expose the laundering of proceeds from faulty Venezuelan electric power plants through American banks in a kickback scheme to pay off Venezuelan officials. It should have been big news, he said.

“Fusion GPS, however, was hired to spike these stories. Even though it was clearly acting as a public relations counsel on behalf of a foreign principal, Fusion GPS never registered under [the Foreign Agents Registration Act] and was able to engage in nefarious activities without public scrutiny.”

There was a money laundering scheme using contracts for faulty Venezuelan power grid plants through American banks to pay off Venezuelan officials, and FusionGPS kept the fallout out of the press.

No one has ever heard about it because of FusionGPS.

“Derwick has stolen more than ten times the amount involved in the infamous 2015 FIFA corruption case and multiple times more than the tax theft in Russia that led to the murder of Sergey Magnitsky. However, there has been almost no media coverage about the Derwick case, and law enforcement activity probing Derwick has ground to a halt. One of the key reasons for this is the paid effort of Fusion GPS,” Halvorssen said.

Founded by Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch, both of whom worked at the Wall Street Journal for years, “Fusion GPS understands how the media operates, how to kill a story, how to manufacture enough doubt to throw off a journalistic investigation, and what it takes for an editor to disqualify a journalist from pursuing a story,” he said.

They kept the story out of the press by playing it.

Take some time to read the description of how FusionGPS kept the Venezuelan story under wraps. It even includes a fake dossier ...

***EDIT TO ADD***

FusionGPS is also the same firm that reviewed the videos made by the Center for Medical Progress and declared them "edited."

a reply to: theantediluvian

And you think that the MSM is bad? Have you ever stopped to objectively consider how much worse the "alternative media" is? How many 100+ flag True Pundit citing threads are on this very site? 

Do I, a silly, heart in the right place mess have to tell you exactly what the msm is?

Once again may I remind you that a star on ATS does not equate to being in every home, every day at every hour!

I swear you used to be a conspiracy theorist, but there has been such change lately that I am now not sure at all.

Politics is what it is, the easy division of a united front.