To all ATHEISTS out there.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Oh, ok. So it's all sub-divided. I get it. To me an atheist is an atheist and an agnostic is an agnostic, but I got your point. Thanks for the clarification.

I knew there​ was a significant difference between a Gnostic and Agnostic, and I always viewed atheist and Agnostic as being different similarly, but I see how the waters have been muddied now.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: St0rD

science is a method of testing hypothesis. ...

not a belief system.

The hypothesis that there is no creator is a hypothesis that cannot be proven.

The hypothesis that there is no other life in the universe is a hypothesis that cannot be proven.

Neither of those are hypothesis though. In science, one does not postulate nor does one attempt to prove a negative. Science only works with evidence and evidence supports a positive, never a negative so your entire premise is faulty from the onset.

wait.....a scientist can go try to see if there is a creator or other life in the universe, but they find none. Yet they insist there is life out there but no creator.

No, they don't INSIST that life definitely exists. Given the size of the known Universe, it is rather naive to think that if the conditions that allowed life to begin on Earth exist elsewhere, there is a mathematical probability that other life exists. There are no certainties or guarantees that it in fact does exist elsewhere though. Its just mathematical probability. It's particularly salient given possible biomorphs (fossilized bacteria) found in Martian meteorite that landed on Earth about 13 Ka.

hypothesis that there is a creator cannot be proven.
The hypothesis that there is life out there cannot be proven.
Yet they insist one is silly and one is not.

If you can't see the difference here then I'm at a loss for words. In simplistic terms, we know that life exists. We see it every day. We know that the conditions necessary for life to exist occur in places other than Earth.

We have no evidence for a creator period, let alone the singular, omnipotent creator attributed to the 4 Abrahamic faiths which if we're being honest, is the one you are advocating for.

they do find life, they will have found proof there is a creator.

No, they will have found evidence that life exists elsewhere. That is in no way analogous to proving that said life was created.

there is only life on Earth in the whole universe ever, that is more likely to be a statistical anomaly of chance for life happening than finding life in multiple places and times.

Do you make this up on the fly? At this point we can only measure the known/visible universe. We have no idea what may or may not be beyond our ability to detect, measure and see with current technology. Your replies in this thread harken back to a few hundred years ago when some groups were still putting forth a geocentric as opposed to a heliocentric model for the solar system

cannot win for trying but their so called hypotheses are in fact beliefs, which is in itself a hypothesis that is proven by their favorite choices in unproven hypotheses.

That entire statement is a whole lot of nothing. The only person who believes in these make believe hypotheses as put forth in your post, is you. Please feel free though to provide a citation where any Cosmologist puts forth an actual hypothesis that there is NOT evidence for something therefore it does not exist. That is quite simply, antithetical to how the scientific method works.

originally posted by: tigertatzen
If you wonder what happened to all the really awesome, intelligent UFO threads, there's your answer.

No.

You can thank all the youtube hoaxers for that #.


And now that we have better cameras, no more rods threads....



Here, enjoy some nostalgia.

a reply to: St0rD

A hard "atheist" who absolutely believes and "knows" there is no supernature is the same as a fool who only listens to his master read from scripture every Sunday.

One cannot make claims to know that no supernature exists, or that "the beyond" doesn't exist.

That being said - just because you personally feel that the universe is intelligently designed doesn't mean that is the case, because we still have no intelligence to answer to. Especially not an intelligence who bore himself so he could kill himself to forgive himself and the creatures he created who inevitably would be "wrong" in his eyes by "design".

Could I have an "Amen" for graven images.




Shall we despense with the dialectical masterbation and get real for a change?

Im an agnostic athiest to be technical.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: SaturnFX

Oh, ok. So it's all sub-divided. I get it. To me an atheist is an atheist and an agnostic is an agnostic, but I got your point. Thanks for the clarification.

I knew there​ was a significant difference between a Gnostic and Agnostic, and I always viewed atheist and Agnostic as being different similarly, but I see how the waters have been muddied now.

Yeah, people often say they are agnostic..that means they are agnostic-atheist..meaning dont ask them what religion they follow because they dont believe in a god, but sure..there might be one (or more), just they want to see some evidence before committing..thats the norm. Thats the bulk of atheists...of course the loudest are the jackasses who "know" there are no gods, claim just that, etc...they are basically the religious atheists..the gnostic atheists..and are intolerable

I believe most people who believe in god do so because they can't face the thought of there being nothing after death. Time to grow up isn't it?

originally posted by: 0rbital
I believe most people who believe in god do so because they can't face the thought of there being nothing after death. Time to grow up isn't it?

How did you come to believe this?

a reply to: Ruiner1978



Because it's a fact that it's hard for most people to accept there's nothing after death, so it's easier for people to believe there will be life after death by believing in a deity. To me, death is the unknown and for all I know our consciousness may live on but this is the thing, no one knows. Just like god believers don't really know if a god/gods exists, they believe they do but if they faced reality they'd admit they don't really know but their blind belief/faith is so strong they wouldn't even consider the possibility of a godless universe, their minds are closed to the thought, therefore they're also closed minded.

originally posted by: St0rD

To all atheists out there I must be honest, the more I go through life the more I find it hard to go along with you guys. A lot claim to be more wise and more intelligent than those who believe and rely on an ''imaginary being''. Well let me tell you something - you #ing rely on something. Something that is called science.
You believe only science can get us out of this #ing mess. Well here is something that science is already telling you.. even though it has not even discovered 10% of the universe:

We all rely on science the same as everyone else. That doesn't mean Science is a Religion nor is it a Belief System. Being an Atheist also doesn't mean they rely on science. It just means they don't believe in Gods.

All of creation is perfectly created. All of creation is intelligently designed. Nothing is left unchecked and everything lives in symbiosis (except for humans, ironically). We all know about the big bang. It claims that from nothing appeared everything. So, consciousness and intelligence spawned out of... #ing nowhere?

If it was all perfect it wouldn't constantly be changing. Evolving. Perfection doesn't require change and the fact is that everything is always changing.

The Big Bang, as you describe, is also not correct.

' Nothing is destroyed, nothing is created, everything is transformed''

That's basic science ffs. And yet you guys still look up on believers? Everywhere you look can see hints and proofs of an ultimate intelligent being. Yet, you still deny that to have such a marvelous and gigantic universe you have got to have a #ing OVERWHELMING power somewhere behind all of it.

So now you're going to rely on Science to try and explain why you're right??? Strange, since you just got done telling us all how wrong science is and how it can't answer these types of questions and how dumb it is for Atheists to rely on it.

Maybe you should make up your mind on what it is you actually believe first before lecturing others.

I find it disturbing to see how such small human beings permit themselves to jugde such a tremendous work of creation and put man above all. Above nature, above animals and even above God. Just as I speak scientists are actively working to 'perfect creation' through DNA engineering and other #ed up stuff.

Correction. It's the bible which says Man has Dominion over nature and the animals not Science.

You are very confused which is also probably why you seem to be so upset. Things that are confusing to us often make us angry because they are frustrating. Take time to learn about them and they won't upset you so much. It's not going to help you any by blaming others for things that you don't understand. It's your problem not theirs.

We are babies learning to walk in the cosmos and yet we think we can still manipulate reality just as we please.
THAT is insanity, wake up ffs!


P.S: Little proof of total infiniteness.

You should get a better education on these subjects. You're not only misrepresenting what it is to be an Atheist, but you're also incorrect about Cosmology and various other Sciences as well. Try learning from somewhere a bit more reliable than YouTube as well.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I've never had a proselytizer try to force their way into my home and force their beliefs on me either so I can see why you responded the way you did. If I tell them I don't have time to speak to them, they're always very pleasant but the odds are actually pretty good that I will take the time to speak with them. There is a woman from the local Jehovahs Witness congregation who stops by every few months. Sometimes with a couple of other women from her church, sometimes with her husband. She's super nice so I don't feel any impetus to be rude to her. If I have time, I will invite her in, sometimes I take a few minutes at the door if I can and if they catch me at a bad time, I let them know politely and they're very respectful. I've never encountered rude or pushy people who were proselytizing. And honestly, if people are that threatened by them challenging their beliefs, a simple "No Solicitation" sign is all you need.

originally posted by: 0rbital
a reply to: Ruiner1978



Because it's a fact that it's hard for most people to accept there's nothing after death, so it's easier for people to believe there will be life after death by believing in a deity. To me, death is the unknown and for all I know our consciousness may live on but this is the thing, no one knows. Just like god believers don't really know if a god/gods exists, they believe they do but if they faced reality they'd admit they don't really know but their blind belief/faith is so strong they wouldn't even consider the possibility of a godless universe, their minds are closed to the thought, therefore they're also closed minded.

Closed minded?

But your own belief is based on a preconception.
Your reason for believing their reason for believing is a lazy opinion.
Have you researched? Conducted surveys? Even bothered to ask people in conversation?

If you have you'd know that most people believe in a higher power due to some kind of experience they've had, not because of some fear of the unknown.

Now you've leaned something a little more factual, what do you believe now?

To all theists out there: I'm tired of some dude who is "full of the spirit" trying to peddle an ancient book, which has numerous inconsistencies and translation errors, as the ultimate answer to my soul's salvation. Maybe.... just maybe, you don't know as much as you think you do. I can admit when I don't know something - I have no clue what happens when we die if anything.

To speak with such surety on a subject you know literally nothing about is the height of hubris.

Anecdote time: My grandmother passed recently. I loved her so very much and she helped raise me. I asked to speak at her funeral as I felt that I needed to say something to assuage the grief I felt. I'm not religious, obviously, but I leave myself open that there is more than I can perceive. My words were constructed in such a way that I didn't need to invoke Jesus or any other authority in order to express how I felt and that I indeed hoped I could see her again in some way. I then endured an eye-contact speech from the pastor speaking at the funeral letting me know I'd see her if I just trusted in Jesus.

It was awkward and off-putting. I respect my grandma's beliefs and I'm quite certain she would have loved the tone of the service; but I will not for one moment pretend that she had all the answers because a book told her so. I don't have all the answers and neither does that book. No one does.

a reply to: St0rD

THAT is insanity, wake up ffs!

when will you wake up?

You would be a perfect door to door knocker selling whatever brand religion you adhere to.

This thread is just that.

To all atheists out there I must be honest, the more I go through life the more I find it hard to go along with you guys.

Here is a hint.

Try talking about sports or other recreational things

talk about the weather.

Instead of talking about what you believe and what others don't which will lead to conflict of ideas which in turn makes it hard for you to get along.

Try changing subjects of what you talk about.

The issues seem to stem from you.

Or are you complaining about Atheists knocking on your door and preaching about science?

Maybe leaflets left on your car?

Maybe people stopping you when walking down the street in areas where there are larger groups of atheists and preaching about Newton's laws?

originally posted by: 0rbital
a reply to: Ruiner1978



Because it's a fact that it's hard for most people to accept there's nothing after death, so it's easier for people to believe there will be life after death by believing in a deity. To me, death is the unknown and for all I know our consciousness may live on but this is the thing, no one knows. Just like god believers don't really know if a god/gods exists, they believe they do but if they faced reality they'd admit they don't really know but their blind belief/faith is so strong they wouldn't even consider the possibility of a godless universe, their minds are closed to the thought, therefore they're also closed minded.

Rightttttt.

All of a sudden it became a fact.

Just a post before you post that its your belief

I believe most people who believe in god do so because they can't face the thought of there being nothing after death.

I could agree that its rational to believe something like this due to ones life experience,

However, to turn around and say its a fact is just preposterous.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

If you have you'd know that most people believe in a higher power due to some kind of experience they've had, not because of some fear of the unknown.

Now you've leaned something a little more factual, what do you believe now?

Yep, good point. When people suffer a major tragedy of some sort they then look for meaning and comfort, that's when they're most vulnerable and look for anything that'll take the pain away, so I suppose religion does have it's uses, even if it's just for the placebo effect. I notice the church loves a good tragedy, it creates subscribers.

originally posted by: 0rbital

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

If you have you'd know that most people believe in a higher power due to some kind of experience they've had, not because of some fear of the unknown.

Now you've leaned something a little more factual, what do you believe now?

Yep, good point. When people suffer a major tragedy of some sort they then look for meaning and comfort, that's when they're most vulnerable and look for anything that'll take the pain away, so I suppose religion does have it's uses, even if it's just for the placebo effect. I notice the church loves a good tragedy, it creates subscribers.

I meant some kind of mystical experience. But you knew that...

Now that's cleared up, are you open minded enough to accept another possibility, or will you cling to your belief?

A mystical experience? No, that hardly happens at all, not enough to prove the point you're trying to make at least. It's usually when someone loses someone they love or something else devastating that they look to fill the void that they've lost, religion fits in nicely then. Aside from that, a lot of people have it drummed into them as children and the belief stays for life in a lot of cases, so the fear of not believing is put into people at a young age. Psychological blackmail, believe in god or go to hell.

I believe in the very small possibility of god, so, isn't my mind is more open than yours? I also think if that god existed it'd be far removed from man made religion.

Do you believe there's a tiny possibility of god not existing? Or is your belief so blind you wouldn't even consider it? If you only choose to answer one question please make it this one. Everyone should question their beliefs.

After starting this topic and reading through all of your messages I realized that I was SO not in a good mood to start a debate about religions and faith on the internet and invest time into it.
My bad for this one I could just have let it go but thank you guys anyway for your opinions.

Still, I'd like to clarify some things.
I made a bad choice of words for my title by choosing 'Atheists' instead of 'Unbelievers' and by unbelievers I mean all people who deny the reality of a supreme consciouness and the possibility of an afterlife. You could call it the Creator or God, but I like to call it Big Boss.

Now let me make this very clear -
I respect science for what it is. I know it to be genuine and I believe that if mankind learn how to tamper his destructive behaviors that it will lead to marvelous revolutions. However, there is a dark side to science that I think most people don't realize yet. And I'm not even talking about the fact it is also being used for evil. No, I'm talking about something much more subtile.

It has the power to truly divert us from the truth.
When I say science is slowly becoming somekind of religion, I #ing mean it.
At its actual state, science might not even have discovered 10% of the ultimate reality. And still most people will follow it blindly.
They will wholeheartdly believe things that science say to be true (even though it has been wrong or mistaken in the past) and will dismiss by the revert of the hand things that has not yet been discovered.
The famous '' I shall believe when I see it''.

Well this is where the dark side comes into play. Mankind has always been talking about spirituality, divinity, meaning to life, spirits, good and evil, etc etc. Furthermore, people all around us, even people that we know (myself included), have been talking about divine experiences, visits from deceased relatives, visions and proofs of alternate realities and such, and all of this has been going for THOUSANDS of years and yet in a matter of a couple of decennies we have made a 180° turn and say to ourselves:
''everything before science must have been delusions considering we have been lied to for so long''.

That's a very bold choice to make guys. Everyone has the right to its opinions right and I think that diversity is what makes this world so entertaining. On the other hand though, with scientific knowledge on the rise, it seems to me like open-minded people towards a true meaning to life, one that implies a divine dimension living in our reality, are on an alarming decrease. While most people will not give a # about this fact, I sincerely believe it contains a very dangerous potential behind it.

As far as I know, I have seen the future many times in my life through my dreams and I have also had experiences that cannot be explained entirely with logic. Be it premonitions, intuitions or whatever, I know for certain a lot of scientists as of now would deny that such thing is even possible. I have multiple first hand testimonies of friends and family member that all HAD surnatural occurances.

So, if there in fact really is an invisible reality living all around and inside of us, one that has been spoken for thousands of years and still today, there is absolutely no way denying it on the sake that science (and yourself) has not discovered and proven it yet is a reasonable choice. We are living through VERY harsh times as a specy and the last thing we need is to distance ourselves from the ultimate truth.

Now you are right, nobody knows for sure what reality is but I have come to the subjective conclusion that God or whatever we can call it, must be found from within ourselves. It has nothing to do with a white-bearded man or even with religions for that matter. It has to do with the true purpose to why we are all here in this universe and that one must find his way back to this infinite truth all by himself.

So, a little advice my friends, stop waiting and relying on science to find the truth in this life. Because I can guarantee you the answer lies within. I have seen some pretty #ed up stuff in this life, things that may have turned normal people towards insanity. But still, I'm firmly convinced in my convictions and the fact there is an overwhelming infinite being somewhere in all of this and that we are all part of it. And yes, there had times where I doubted my faith, and sometimes I still do. However, in the end, there is always something that happens in my life that bring me back to being a believer.

And I wish you all the same!
Peace.