Hmmm.. A question to NON-American's

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Trent
Also i do not understand what you mean by a representation of America, there is no unifying thought pattern for millions of people there that i know of.

This thread was about what do you think of Americans.
Why did you single out that group knowing there's no unifying thought pattern? There are a lot of...different groups in America with their own (sometimes strange and hateful) beliefs (i.e, kkk).

As i said in my original post that is the only group in America that worries me, which is why i brought them up. I do not want them to "take back America" as they put it in the documentry i saw. I very much like America the way it is and don't want the religious fundamentalists to gain more power and change things there because that would not only effect America but everyone in the world. I thought i made this clear all along I also thought you were trying to say the religious right does not exist and I was trying to prove that they do, i certainly don't think all Americans are religious or think that all members of the religious right believe in things that could be bad for the society. Whether or not such things are on the rise or decline, i admit i don't really know for sure and hope you are right about it. I try to never make generalizations about huge groups of people because such generalizations are always wrong.


[edit on 10-2-2005 by Trent]

Originally posted by veretto
Why do you believe that there should be One country to police the world. As police of the world, what do you think America's objectives should be?

I don't think there should be one country. It should be the UNs job, but the UN is terribly corrupt and very ineffective.
What should we be doing?
No country in earth should ever come close to the genocide of a certain people, because we have the power to stop that. People will complain that it's none of our business, but we're all humans. And if we have the power to turn a terrible situation around, we should.
We should also continue the terrorism fight. Mainly by continuing what we have been doing.....freezing assets, special forces here or there, and funding and aiding governments who may not have all the resources to fight them themselves.
And if a country gets out of hand we should step in and take care of business (i.e., Gulf War I)

Anything we do however would be criticized.....and people can complain all they want, but until someone else has the manpower and resources to do it effectively....what do you do?

Do you believe that America should force democracy on those countries that do not want it?

If the alternative is dangerous for us, then yes.
If the country is no threat then
1. I doubt we'd force anything since there is no threat
2. The obvious answer is no we shouldn't force it if the people don't want it.
There aren't too many (or any at all) countries post Cold War have we tried to force democracy on where the people didn't want a change btw.

Also- should America ban other countries from having weapons of mass destruction, when America has her own fair share of such weapons?

Yes. And it's not American banning other countries, it's the world body.
What would be the purpose of developing these weapons now?

Yes, the United States has these weapons, but we've had these weapons from the begining. Way before any treaties and such were in place. Now that treaties and bans are in place, no new country should be trying to acquire them.

If so, how can America determine who is allowed and who is not?

Simple. No one is allowed. And it's not just America, the world body agrees.

This thread seems to be turning into one big ani America thread.

Half you say where too disconected the other half thinks where too involved.

I think all this hate from the rest of the world is nothing but envy for our most excellent standard of living and multitude of freedoms.

I say if ya dont like America stay the hell out, and If ya want use to stop policeing the world COME TRY AND STOP US.

Other wise get back to your unshaven women, rich cream sauces, Elephant riding, general stink and leave the running of the world to the BIG BOYS!

Oh and veretto I hope that Visa comes thru for ya!

Ok Flame on!

[edit on 11-2-2005 by butters30]

Originally posted by Archangel76


Overally, I agree with most of the posts so far on what that work entails (as well as most of the other sentiments expressed - EXCEPT for the one on cricket...I've been living in a commonwealth nation for a while now, and I still can't understand the bloody game...frankly, I think the Brits exported it abroad to keep their colonies obsessed about a complicated game all day rather than plot independence!

.

Cheers,
Archangel

Ahhh you just say you don't understand it because you can't beat us Aussies LOL! Keep practising in the backyard you'll be right.

I would like to first reply to who ever said that "If I do not like this thread then I can U2U". First of all, way too defensive. I never said I did not like this thread. I wanted to know who started so I could understand what their intentions were for the thread. This thread is the reason why I am here- I liked the topic of conversation. I do not believe that I have acted in a manner that would be hostile to you or any other member of this board. If I have then you can U2U me and we can work this out.

Now- for the main topic: Anti-America. I do not believe this thread has turned out to be Anti-America. I have not yet heard anyone say anything slanderous of America. It is merely a discussion of politics. We have already assesed that the problem is not Americans as a people, rather, a problem with the government. The only problem I see with the people is the same problems that you will find in any other country. Some people are rude, others are not. Some people are kind, others are not. For America to be as diverse as it is- I am surprised at the amount of sane people we have!

I refuse to change the latter statement, however; our government is corrupt and the American people are being blind sighted. Some see it, others do not. If we want to be represented justly then we can not continue to allow our President to pursuit his hidden agendas. There are stances we can make to ensure that the American people are not categorized as a country composed of people who refuse to accept diversity. We have potential for a lot of good, why use the power we have to create unsettlement?

As an outsider looking in Americans seem like a nation with a confused idea of patriotism.

Patriotism is wanting what's best for your own country. It is not loyalty to a government who tell you what is best for your country.

And from the impression I have gained from the media (left and right, American and European) and from foreign policy, Americans in general would be unlikely to ask the question posed in the opening post of this thread, much less listen to the response.

It is very encouraging to see that there are some who care about the effects of American policies, domestic and foreign, on public opinion abroad

Originally posted by butters30
...leave the running of the world to the BIG BOYS!l

I suppose you would know, being a mason. That's rule number 1 of your secret society. Let the elite rich big boys run the world. And they are and have been for a long time. Hope you have the money and family connections to move you forward. Otherwise you're cattle like the rest of us.


You are a perfect example of a racist, disinterested, disconnected, ignorant American. And you are the one who's turning this thread into an anti-American one.

Which would explain your lack of intelligence

Oh grow up, will you? when will you learn to justify your opinions?

But seriously that fact that's you're not American so you have no idea what/how Americans think would explain why your post is so wrong...

So now I should be an USA citizen (not 'American', because it means one from the American contintent) in order to know what USA citizens think? how about all the movies, sites and books? won't that count?

The Romans controlled most of the known world during their time.....
We have Peurto Rico and Guam....
Oh yeah, very similar

USA has military bases in over 160 countries. 'Nough said.

More proof you don't know what/how Americans think.

You do know history??? so tell me then, was Alexander the Great a Greek or what?

We live in a Republic....

A republic, yes. But not the ...republic of China, but a democracy: you vote for your president.

Spoken like a true European who thinks the US's war on terror started post 9/11.....

I never said 'the war on terror started after 9/11'. I said 'let's look at recent years.'

Moral of this post. More wrong that right, but expected from a non American who is spoon fed what they see and read, and not from the experience of actually living in America. Not really a bad thing as they simply don't know.

I didn't say anything about living in America. And I did so because it is no different than living in any other place in the world. Tell me one thing you can do and I can't.

Hmmm, what of Americans?

Well I feel that you guys are alright, just a bit power hungry!

I say heres to the Americans, just sort out your adminstration.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

Originally posted by butters30
...leave the running of the world to the BIG BOYS!l

I suppose you would know, being a mason. That's rule number 1 of your secret society. Let the elite rich big boys run the world. And they are and have been for a long time. Hope you have the money and family connections to move you forward. Otherwise you're cattle like the rest of us.


You are a perfect example of a racist, disinterested, disconnected, ignorant American. And you are the one who's turning this thread into an anti-American one.

Just so you know I am no racist. I do however hate 2 group or nationalitys.

1 The French!

2 The Canadians

I especially hate the French Canadians

You have no clue what it's like to be a mason or what it involves. If ya did you wouldnt make ignorant comments like were all elitest.

Most the people in most lodges are blue colour workers not the cream of the crop elite like you think we are.

So why dont ya just drink your Molson and shut up Eh?

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
Patriotism is wanting what's best for your own country. It is not loyalty to a government who tell you what is best for your country.

Hope I did the quote right. This was a great post- I whole heartedly agree.

Now- I do not understand how anyone can hate any nationality. Imagine hating an entire people. I will tell you the truth- it is more effort for me to hate than for me to forgive and move on.

I refuse to reserve so much energy just to hate someone, or someones people. It is a crime against yourself sir, to hate so much and I pitty you. I shall reserve myself from further debate as this has turned out to be a flame contest. I am not good at hating others. A debate, that was once worthy and bold, has turned into a hating contest.

To all people I ask that you do not judge Americans based on the few people that you have encounterd on the internet. They do not make up the entire mind set of the US citizens.

[edit on 12-2-2005 by veretto]

I thought this was a thread about ASKING non americans what they think, not to go and prove, justify or argue thier view, opinion and or what they feel about america.

I don't know, how can you comment on a whole entire country. I haven't even been over there. What I can say is that lots of your exports are very much enjoyed and it'd be a crying shame to lose access to them.
And I much prefer watching your news, ours is dismal and highly depressing to the point that whenever I see it it tends to make me want to attack the screen.

Originally posted by Bastardsky
Ok, the problem is simple:

Americans in general consume too much, and polute too much. that must end.
Or all the world will suffer.

239 million people in thus US ( I think) and how many of you are in European countries that drive cars, and buy things???

Not to mention alot of you drive OLDER cars that POLLUTE more....

How many mcdonald's are there around the world INCLUDING CHINA...

Combine CHINA and the EUROPEAN countries to AMERICA and you become the worst polluters because your cars are older.

Cities are the exact same here with buildings and factories and all..

Does china and europe even RECYCLE?

recycle, reduce, reuse and join the loop.

IT'S A MYTH!

America's land is 10% used. That leaves 90% to many trees and forests and wildlife/habitats...

Sure we have industry WHAT COUNTRY DOESN'T!

About Bush... well, he is using your faith to manipulate you.

what POLITICIAN'S DOESN'T MANIPULATE THE PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY WANT... IT'S CALLED POLTICS... ANY AND EVER SCUMBAG THAT EVER WAS JOINS THAT ARENA SO THEY CAN FURTHER THEIR AGENDA, I'M SURE YOUR GOVERNMENT DOES THAT TOO, BUT YOUR TOO BUSY BEING NOSEY TO EVEN CHECK UP ON YOUR GOV.

Here in Portugal we had a dictatorship for 50 years...by tath time, the regime had an interesting phrase: dêm-lhes fátima, futebol e fado...

this means : give them fatima ( religion) futebol (soccer) and fado ( fado is a portuguese tipical musical style usualy about sadness or tragedy...)


this equation hasn´t changed...it still all about religion and entertainment.

That is if YOU allow it to be.... Not every American is like that, but I see you like stereotyping and generalzing to try and make your points valid...

You have to try to teach you fellow americans, the ones tath support bush, tath a good politician doesn´t need to make an almoast religious speech only to proove his ideas.

Half of America voted total.... so that means that half both voted for bush and kerry, and kerry being the hot dog that he is, decided he too would try and bring up religion to try andbring more points in...

Another case of manipulation.

The OTHER HALF THAT DIDN'T VOTE, I believe to be the smart ones, because they know with those two clowns nothing will ever change, the country will still go to hell in a handbasket... however, i believe bush isn't doing a bad job right now, and i'm looking at that objectively, not with hate in mind and heart like some of you from other countries... hate hate hate... then think... which is primarily based off emotion at that point.

Your constitution is beautifull please, don´t let him distroy it.

Sadly, "we the people" couldn't do anything about if it was changed... both r and d have been poking holes in it for centuries...

The only ones that could restore it are theones that never get elected....




[edit on 12-2-2005 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by Archangel76
Hey!

I saw another American living outside the states and I thought I'd put my two cents in. I live in Sri Lanka, and over here, people are generally positive about the US (the sight of US Navy Seahawks delivering supplies and the thousand marines who came over here to help out after the tsunamis certainly helped that). Most Sri Lankan's despise the Bush Administration, or support it to a frightening degree.

But for me personally, living outside the US and making visitations every year has been an enlightening experience. I've travelled to Europe and parts of asia (and the middle east, if you count insanely long airport stays

. About the American people, the bad stuff first: While people who say americans are all stupid are generalizing, I ahve to agree that we are an incredibly inward looking people. And why the hell not? Life in the US is a far sight better than in most of the world - believe me I know. Why bother with the rest of it, right? Well, guess what? That attitude has to end. Like it or not, we have a responsibility to the world, being its only superpower. That was what someone in England said to me when I was there two months ago. He had a weird position where he thought that the US government was behaving in a way that was moral (by invading Iraq) and that the American people had not grasped their global responsibilities as quickly as teir government (by the fact that most of them can't locate Irq on a map).

That's a weird position to take, isn't it? Weird, as in, unusual, rather than twisted. But that's the way it is...even some who support our foreign policy are disdained that we live in a high-tech, prosperous bubble and rarely look over the fence. Obviously, living in tiny Sri Lanka is bound to be more of an extroverted experience than living in a country huge enough to make it a big deal to travel to the opposite side of it. But we stil have a responsibility to make informed decisions in forming our national opinion on the policy decisions of our government (and I say this taking no side i nthe Iraq war debate). If we confirm our support for the government that sent out our soldiers to fight and die in distant parts of the globe, we have an equal responsibility to learn more about that world.

That said, the US remains the best country in the world for me personally. I find it pretty similar to the UK in a lot of ways. The people are a lot more open though (sometimes to a fault) - but I guess that countries are suited for various personalities. That and the physical environment and weather and stuff is a lot more inviting.

As for US politics, I think that we beat the crap out of most of the world...not that that's saying much. This is not american arrogance speaking here, this is simply my experience living in a country where the president used its worst ever natural catastrophe to postpone elections for the next decade. The American government I think is big on vision...(FINALLY), and unlike most poeple in my situation, living outside the US has actually strenghthened my support for the current aministration.. But to translate that noble visoin into reality will require a lot more hard work on the part of all our citizens.

Overally, I agree with most of the posts so far on what that work entails (as well as most of the other sentiments expressed - EXCEPT for the one on cricket...I've been living in a commonwealth nation for a while now, and I still can't understand the bloody game...frankly, I think the Brits exported it abroad to keep their colonies obsessed about a complicated game all day rather than plot independence!

.

Cheers,
Archangel

Some good insight from a world traveler!

why did you decide to settle in sri lanka?? if I travelled I think I would like to settle somewhere in Europe...

I find it amazing that America is such a smal country compared to the U.S.S.R , China, Africa, Canada, ect almost the same size of Australia, and there is so much hate for it!

But, if the U.S.S.R was still standing today the way it was in past, people would be hating on it too, with all the oppression and all, that they would of brought to the world instead of oppessing it's own people the way they did.

Originally posted by butters30
Just so you know I am no racist. I do however hate 2 group or nationalitys.

1 The French!
2 The Canadians

I especially hate the French Canadians

You have no clue what it's like to be a mason or what it involves. If ya did you wouldnt make ignorant comments like were all elitest.

Most the people in most lodges are blue colour workers not the cream of the crop elite like you think we are.

So why dont ya just drink your Molson and shut up Eh?

Eh oui ! Merci de m'avoir fait la leçon. Alors c'est moi l'ignorant ? Oui, c'est bien ça. Vous êtes exactement comme j'ai pensé. Plus qu'ignorant. Hyper-ignorant. Vous ne connaissez même pas l'histoire des masons. Ouvrez vos yeux, je vous prie !

Sorry...bilingual country and all dontcha know. Have a nice day. I'll do the same while drinking my Molson's, EH.

Hey Im from Scotland.

The American ppl nothing wrong with them maybe some are arrigant (Some more so than in other countrys as can be seen in some of the posts on this forum)

The American Gov Well in my opinion Clinton was better...You had a better Economy and foreign policy (More country were pro America then).
Bush lead american gov well it to hard line it Interferes with other countrys to the point where it techniqually wrong (Ok I believe it was right to free Iraq but I believe the American ppl did it ofr the right reasons but their gov did it for others)

American ppl need to learn from other countrys about there abundent waste. What need for a car that can barerly move 10 feet with out needing refueled (ok bit exaggerated). Your industrys need to modernise to help protect our dieing planet (Your creating majority of the poisin is our atmosphere and also helping burn more oxygen than our planet can replace.)

This is slightly off topic to the person from India. Why do America have a right to say who owns nukes well it simple really the whole world has a say to an extent. We say certain ppl cant because their gov are unstable or mentally unstable and currently the Iran gov are hardliners who the world believe would use them, and not in self defence.

But hey I slated the USA but what I said can be said about Europe as I have said in another thread the EU is a corrupt money wasting (and at the moment) waste of UK and any other EU countrys money. Bureaucrats are all out for there own countrys and their own pockets. We dont even get to elect them (Least the American states do). If we want the EU to work and be as powerful as USA (Which will happen as we are becomming the biggest "union" in the world at our rate of expansion). we need to take some leasons from the Americans lol and can we honestly see France and Germany gov doing that.....It would spoil their hold on the EU.

Without Ameria (As in gov) it would be a more peaceful world. but without their hard stance through the years we could be ruled by communism or in all manners of war and terror. (Cause Most of Europe aint going to do jack they rather talk about it and put some stupid sanction up instead and well we aint strong enough).

There my thoughts on it.....Let the back lash begin

Originally posted by minority2000uk
Hey Im from Scotland.

The American ppl nothing wrong with them maybe some are arrigant (Some more so than in other countrys as can be seen in some of the posts on this forum)

The American Gov Well in my opinion Clinton was better...You had a better Economy and foreign policy (More country were pro America then).
Bush lead american gov well it to hard line it Interferes with other countrys to the point where it techniqually wrong (Ok I believe it was right to free Iraq but I believe the American ppl did it ofr the right reasons but their gov did it for others)

American ppl need to learn from other countrys about there abundent waste. What need for a car that can barerly move 10 feet with out needing refueled (ok bit exaggerated). Your industrys need to modernise to help protect our dieing planet (Your creating majority of the poisin is our atmosphere and also helping burn more oxygen than our planet can replace.)

This is slightly off topic to the person from India. Why do America have a right to say who owns nukes well it simple really the whole world has a say to an extent. We say certain ppl cant because their gov are unstable or mentally unstable and currently the Iran gov are hardliners who the world believe would use them, and not in self defence.

But hey I slated the USA but what I said can be said about Europe as I have said in another thread the EU is a corrupt money wasting (and at the moment) waste of UK and any other EU countrys money. Bureaucrats are all out for there own countrys and their own pockets. We dont even get to elect them (Least the American states do). If we want the EU to work and be as powerful as USA (Which will happen as we are becomming the biggest "union" in the world at our rate of expansion). we need to take some leasons from the Americans lol and can we honestly see France and Germany gov doing that.....It would spoil their hold on the EU.

Without Ameria (As in gov) it would be a more peaceful world. but without their hard stance through the years we could be ruled by communism or in all manners of war and terror. (Cause Most of Europe aint going to do jack they rather talk about it and put some stupid sanction up instead and well we aint strong enough).

There my thoughts on it.....Let the back lash begin

No no... That was, that was very well said... Nice p.o.v and I like the way you integrated the facts into other countries besides just the states.

As long as there are industrialised nations, there is going to be pollution, however, there comes a time when these nations have to get responsible for their actions because if they don't, they will be the death of us (meaning the world).

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
Eh oui ! Merci de m'avoir fait la leçon. Alors c'est moi l'ignorant ? Oui, c'est bien ça. Vous êtes exactement comme j'ai pensé. Plus qu'ignorant. Hyper-ignorant. Vous ne connaissez même pas l'histoire des masons. Ouvrez vos yeux, je vous prie !

Magnifique, mon petite rayon de soleil! Merci pour faire me ris, encore

Apparently, my French is slightly better than I thought, I understood your post parfaitement. My response may be a little less perfect but you've inspired me to practice. I too wish to deny ignorance bilingually.

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
Patriotism is wanting what's best for your own country. It is not loyalty to a government who tell you what is best for your country.

Problem is Americans are divided on what is best for their country and government control is hedged too deep. Americans now would never revolt against tyrannical government policy - they will only go with the flow and hope thier own assets are not seized and their children drafted. It's over. The America we knew 'for the people and by the people' is dead and what we have now is a new form of government similar to that of Roman power of old.