The transgender con ? Many transgender regret switch

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

Indeed.

Let's see what silly platitudes you'll dip into next.

Here ya go: Hahaha!!! LOL!!! Teeheehee!!!

Our words will stand on their own merit, and folks will judge according to their own.

With regards to transgenders and child dysphoria too we should understand the phenomenon better, objectively, and ask better questions.

We need to bring all quantifiable data to light on children referred, and a comprehensive psychiatric analysis on those children by smart people. By this I mean, understand how they were raised, the attitudes and behavior of the parents, the home environment, life at school, friends and influence. And we need to ask the children smart questions to understand their outlook and opinions on life, to gauge what their thought processes are, and if they might truly be genuine in their disposition towards the opposite gender.

I don't know about what questions you would ask the children, but what if you asked boys the same questions you would ask a girl, to see if you got a feminine response?

Just to really understand the roots of this emerging phenomenon, and to understand if modern societal values are playing a part in confusing modern children.

I personally think a 5 years doesn't know jack about what they want, and we shouldn't let a 5 year old decide it's gender or make any decisions whatsoever except for what they want for breakfast and what color jacket they want.

I don't think a human being should be making any life changing, pivotal decisions such as gender reassignment until they are something like 25 years old. At that age you are on the cusp of making adult decisions based on logic, rationality, experience and a degree of wisdom. At 18-21 I think you are still too young to make any serious decision like that, but at least at 25 you made serious decisions and you live with them and no one can judge you for it.

This is my personal opinion and my approach if my children every think to have the idea that they want to change their gender, insert an artificial womb, cut of some important limbs.

I'd also like to know a lot more about the race and culture that these children belong to or identify with, as I am certain that you will find a common trend. I doubt in culturally rich societies you find this phenomenon emerging in the same way, and it would more likely be confusion (in culturally rich societies) rather then genuine mental gender predisposition.


The same investigation should be done on transgenders, because I am tired of seeing meaningless reports on transgenders saying they are happy with gender reassignment and all the surgeries and therapies, when they were asked for feedback very shortly after the switch over. How about you take feedback at 2, 5, 10, and 15 years to see if transgenders have regretted their decision or not because that is when you are likely to regret something so emotionally pivotal, and admit it.

For years you can make yourself believe that your doing something that you want, or being someone you think you need to be but really deep down you are lying to yourself, and you can play the charades for an exceptionally long period till you actually realize it's not you and it's not what you wanted.

For those transgenders that went through all the trauma, and all the surgeries to transition, and are still truly content 10, 15 years on. than what can I say. It's your life, if you are really happy with what you've done to yourself and how you're living, you certainly fought for it and went through a helluva lot of pain. It's your choice, and if it was my child all grown up and content about it, I'd accept it but I wouldn't condone it or support it.

I think it is hypocritical for transgender males for example to still want to have a baby or conceive naturally at some point in their future relationships, when you chose to live your life as a gender that should not (naturally) be able to conceive.

This is where it gets to become a circus show, and human stupidity prevails in thinking we can start getting around these issues with artificial wombs for transgender women, and messing with the human physiology when we live in a day and age where we can't even cure the common cold, cancer, or fix a broken back. But you want to go and pretend that we're masters of the universe and get to DIY on the human body, and make it something it can NEVER be.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

Indeed.

Let's see what silly platitudes you'll dip into next.

Here ya go: Hahaha!!! LOL!!! Teeheehee!!!

Our words will stand on their own merit, and folks will judge according to their own.

And it will be known that your words were "Hahaha!!! LOL!!! Teeheehee!!!".

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

To the first part of your post, I would say - that's what good therapists are for.

As to the second part of your post - What trans people do with their own bodies is really none of your business, is it?

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
With regards to transgenders and child dysphoria too we should understand the phenomenon better, objectively, and ask better questions.

We need to bring all quantifiable data to light on children referred, and a comprehensive psychiatric analysis on those children by smart people. By this I mean, understand how they were raised, the attitudes and behavior of the parents, the home environment, life at school, friends and influence. And we need to ask the children smart questions to understand their outlook and opinions on life, to gauge what their thought processes are, and if they might truly be genuine in their disposition towards the opposite gender.

I don't know about what questions you would ask the children, but what if you asked boys the same questions you would ask a girl, to see if you got a feminine response?

Just to really understand the roots of this emerging phenomenon, and to understand if modern societal values are playing a part in confusing modern children.

I personally think a 5 years doesn't know jack about what they want, and we shouldn't let a 5 year old decide it's gender or make any decisions whatsoever except for what they want for breakfast and what color jacket they want.

I don't think a human being should be making any life changing, pivotal decisions such as gender reassignment until they are something like 25 years old. At that age you are on the cusp of making adult decisions based on logic, rationality, experience and a degree of wisdom. At 18-21 I think you are still too young to make any serious decision like that, but at least at 25 you made serious decisions and you live with them and no one can judge you for it.

This is my personal opinion and my approach if my children every think to have the idea that they want to change their gender, insert an artificial womb, cut of some important limbs.

I'd also like to know a lot more about the race and culture that these children belong to or identify with, as I am certain that you will find a common trend. I doubt in culturally rich societies you find this phenomenon emerging in the same way, and it would more likely be confusion (in culturally rich societies) rather then genuine mental gender predisposition.


The same investigation should be done on transgenders, because I am tired of seeing meaningless reports on transgenders saying they are happy with gender reassignment and all the surgeries and therapies, when they were asked for feedback very shortly after the switch over. How about you take feedback at 2, 5, 10, and 15 years to see if transgenders have regretted their decision or not because that is when you are likely to regret something so emotionally pivotal, and admit it.

For years you can make yourself believe that your doing something that you want, or being someone you think you need to be but really deep down you are lying to yourself, and you can play the charades for an exceptionally long period till you actually realize it's not you and it's not what you wanted.

For those transgenders that went through all the trauma, and all the surgeries to transition, and are still truly content 10, 15 years on. than what can I say. It's your life, if you are really happy with what you've done to yourself and how you're living, you certainly fought for it and went through a helluva lot of pain. It's your choice, and if it was my child all grown up and content about it, I'd accept it but I wouldn't condone it or support it.

I think it is hypocritical for transgender males for example to still want to have a baby or conceive naturally at some point in their future relationships, when you chose to live your life as a gender that should not (naturally) be able to conceive.

This is where it gets to become a circus show, and human stupidity prevails in thinking we can start getting around these issues with artificial wombs for transgender women, and messing with the human physiology when we live in a day and age where we can't even cure the common cold, cancer, or fix a broken back. But you want to go and pretend that we're masters of the universe and get to DIY on the human body, and make it something it can NEVER be.

Bravo on an excellent post ! Thank you for your participation.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Our words will stand on their own merit, and folks will judge according to their own.

Let's talk about that statement.

I remember some of your story. I remember being heartbroken over what your family is going through with the medical system and have the greatest empathy for you as a mother. I remember wishing I had better answers for you and when you began attacking a central core of my being (validity of gender dysphoria), I remember wishing I was able to maintain a more conciliatory tone with you, given what you were going through.

I mean all of that. I wish I had done better in the face of having to defend myself against your views so long ago. And I'm sorry.

But, as right as you are to challenge and question so many things about your family's situation, you are extrapolating from your experience targets to blame that are not your enemy and you are wrong about them. And for that, I feel sorry about you and your situation. Misguided disdain is something I can have sympathy for when people are hurting like you.

But you are not correct on many of your conclusions. I am not sorry for stating that once again.

Whatever happened to just agreeing to disagree?

The way you guys are all ganging up on sheye makes you look like a bunch of bigoted bullies. She has real concerns and her intentions are from the heart, but because it doesn't line up with your reality, she's an ignorant bigot?

Sound to me like something an ignorant bigot would say. You know, compassion works both ways..

You're all grown ass women acting like a bunch of highschoolers, saying as you please, taking turns knowing your posse will be there to back you up. Pathetic. I keep hearing black and white, but guess what? Your world view is ALSO black and white if you fail to acknowledge that different situations can exist outside of your own. No 2 people are the same, no 2 circumstances are the same and no 2 paths through life are the same. So for you to share your own stories, to simply to dismiss all other notions is not only disingenuous, but very selfish of you.

Since you've apparently already made the right decision for yourself, THIS IS NO LONGER ABOUT YOU. makes sense right? Realize and underestand that there are people that exist outside of your little bubble and that people have REAL concern's, and contrary to what you wish to believe, comes from real places. The way you guys approach these discussions - insult and stifle any opposing view - isn't helping to sway anyone's opinion, but rather the contrary. You guys are every bit as much of what you are accusing others to be.

Again in case anyone didn't get it the first time or missed it;

The only way to having an open and honest discussion, is to be open and honest to ALL opinions.

Guess what happens when you start to remove all the views you don't agree with? I'll give you a hint -- it isn't the freedom loving utopia you think it'll be..

a reply to: kaylaluv

Yeah you are right, what a trans ADULT person does i couldn't care less, they are an adult and made their choice, I won't condone or support it, I wont stand in their way either. What a juvenile trans thinks they're doing, concerns me, as I begin to breakdown the cause and the root.

I don't want my children to grow up in a world with potentially confusing and unwanted trends influencing their development, I'm already a big boy, I can make my own mind up based on the era I came from, and the world I grew up in, which was ticking on just fine to the tune of a natural order.

Looking at the emerging phenomenon of transgenders, and child dysphoria, I can't help but think that this not yet fully understood subject will rub off on my own children as they grow up, and then it becomes my problem to me hence my post.

I'd like to understanding where it is all rooted, and how it came about. I don't want to keep hearing it's a real thing, transgenders are fully happy and content, when there is no meaningful data to back that up.

I said a ten to fifteen year follow up on the level of contentent for a large pool transgenders would help me understand better, how real this phenomenon is. I'd also want to know the racial, and cultural backgrounds they came from, and a bit about their upbringing.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Where was her concern for the poster who revealed how hard the teen years were for someone with gender dysphoria? It was like "big deal, you weren't the only one who suffered". That was just cold. Nope, the OP just played her hand there. She doesn't really care about people with gender dysphoria.

Do people start threads just so everyone will post their agreement? Do people start threads and expect anyone who disagrees to keep quiet? Who is "removing views"? Unless, you are trying to remove our views...

a reply to: kaylaluv

Yeah I remember your "concern for the poor transgender victims of the big bad medical industry" when you wrote that thread about the evil transgender people who were just perverts in disguise - remember that autogynephilia thread? Soooo much concern there, but not for trans people, if I recall.

Yes, indeed I do remember that thread: Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

I specifically remember that I was similarly attacked unmercilessly... until an expert came into the thread and started providing the data I could not... and boy did attitudes change quick!

And as I pointed out in that thread, while others have done their best to deny the conditions of these male-to-female trans, it's those trans persons themselves who have said consistently and repeatedly: "Hey! That's me!!! HELP!!!" Much like in this thread. Real people with real biological problems and real pain and suffering are being told to STFU because the rest of the trans community doesn't want to hear it....

I am also very happy that the condition is getting far more attention and study today than it was before -- because of those people standing up and speaking out and saying yes, it is a thing.

And the solution could be as simple and painless as reducing the excess testosterone, letting them lead the life they want to with their family and children and job and all that good stuff. But, instead, those folks are also allowed to suffer -- or, even worse, told the only thing they can do is surgically and/or chemically castrate their bodies and give up the life they've built for themselves and alienate the people they love. Because autogynephilia doesn't fit the Trans Taliban narrative (see what I did there???).

Here's one example: On HRT: Autogynephilia goes away. Off HRT: Autogynephilia comes back

After 18 days of HRT, I quit. Shortly after I began HRT, all of my autogynephilia thoughts went away and I was left wondering why I would ever go on HRT to begin with! At the end of the day, I kept asking myself, "Do you genuinely believe that you are a girl?" And I couldn't honestly answer yes to that question. I remember one night sitting in my girl clothes and I just felt incredibly foolish. And when I practiced my girl voice, I felt ridiculous. I couldn't shake the feeling of "Why are you doing this?" All of my desires to look and dress like a girl went away.

So I quit.

And I was happy for a short while because I thought that it meant I wasn't really TG. I went back to enjoying everything I like about being a man. Because honestly, I do love many things about being a man. I reconsidered pursuing my old childhood dreams of being a mma fighter or Navy SEAL or something else uber-manly I even started taking my testosterone shots and aromatase inhibitors again.

But soon, my autogynephilia came back! I now have the same old urge to look and dress like a woman and sexually fantasize about it, the longing for a female body and craving for HRT came flooding back.

When I'm off HRT, I feel like I need it. When I'm on HRT, I feel like I don't need it.

I can't get any peace. Can someone help me interpret what all of this means and where I fit in on the transgender spectrum?

Another very sad example of how current narratives and treatments are creating and perpetuating a living hell for men who don't want to be women. But there is little to no help for them in the community because their suffering is ignored and denied and belittled for the Trans Taliban narrative.

Hell, there's even foods and herbs and natural over-the-counter supplements to lower testosterone for women, which would probably work just as well for those men:

Herbal Testosterone Blocker
How to Lower Testosterone Levels
University of Maryland (Natural Anti-Androgen Herbs)

(Links at the end of the article above to many clinical studies regarding anti-androgens).

But who's going to tell these men -- not women, men -- the TRUTH about their condition and a very non-invasive and relatively safe treatment??? Sure as hell not the Trans Taliban, eh?

You would still rather attack me and question my heart and mind -- and force chemical/surgical castration -- than actually give a rat's patootie about their very real suffering and their true needs.

Thanks for making my point. And thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide the information these men actually need to be healthy and happy -- not the claptrap being shoved down their throats. Like Sheye said earlier, if it just helps one person, that's awesome.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Ok, maybe removing wasn't the right word, since we can't physically remove each other, but you guys will ridicule anyone with any opposing view, essentially trying to stifle them and discourage others that may want to add their opinion.

Luckily for me I am a big boy with alligator skin, but I bet others have stayed out due to the aggressive nature of the pro crowd. Every thread dealing with trans, quickly becomes the posse take over, where everyone just goes in circles for pages and pages. it's been well over 100 pages in the past 2 weeks or so, and we haven't even progressed at all with our discussion. How is that even possible?

Well for starters, refusing to be open to opposing views might be a reason..

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Where was her concern for the poster who revealed how hard the teen years were for someone with gender dysphoria? It was like "big deal, you weren't the only one who suffered". That was just cold. Nope, the OP just played her hand there. She doesn't really care about people with gender dysphoria.

Do people start threads just so everyone will post their agreement? Do people start threads and expect anyone who disagrees to keep quiet? Who is "removing views"? Unless, you are trying to remove our views...

I think you have too strong of an emotional attachment to this subject, which is clearly understandable, but some of us came here to be objective, and some of us want real answers here. We want to know where all the objective data is, that really shows transgenderism to be a recourse for a genuine condition.

You shared a somewhat touching story about a transngender poster who shared their story on ATS

" I am reminded of the former ATS member who tried to tell her story here..."

And by the way you wrote the account you kept referring to the person as a she, when the person was in their early years, despite being a boy. And so you clearly show emotional attachment and apathy to transgederism, without being objective. This person you spoke of was just one of how many cases that we assume to be genuine?

You made it sound very touching, but that is not enough to make us believe it's real. How well do you know that person? Can you give testimony that after so many years, that person is truly content with their gender switch, getting involved in astrophysics, having a boyfriend?

We should check up on 'her', in a few more years see if this is still the case but then how could you be sure? The more respondents you have, the more meaningful the individual accounts become, assuming we asked them at different points in their life.

A staggering 41 percent of people who identify as transgender reported in a national survey that they had attempted suicide. That’s over twenty-five times the rate of suicide attempts (1.6 percent) among the general population. Clearly, this is a group at high risk for dangerous levels of depression—and, as the work of Dr. Ihlenfeld attests, sex change surgery is not the way to help keep them safe. Yet any report of psychiatric issues among transgenders is seen as too negative to the social justice narrative. Individuals with gender dysphoria are discouraged from seeking treatment for their depression, phobias, and adjustment disorders. Instead, it is assumed that their psychiatric difficulties are due to their “not being true to themselves,” and they are fast-tracked to transition. To my knowledge, transgender advocates have never made a point to warn the transgender community to look for other treatable disorders or to lobby the medical community for better diagnosis and care for coexisting disorders, which are present in over half the group.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I will readily admit that I have skin in the game on this topic. I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria and approved for sex reassignment surgery by the pre-eminent authority at the time, Paul Walker, PhD. He chaired the committee that authored the original Harry Benjamin International Standards of Care, which are similar to the guidelines in use today. He quickly approved me for hormone therapy and surgery without considering the comorbid disorders that might have fueled the gender dysphoria. Like the person whose story I shared above, after male-to-female surgery didn’t permanently heal my gender discomfort, I sought counseling. Amazingly, the feelings of gender discomfort I had for a lifetime died out after extensive counseling resolved the issues.

Shortly after undergoing sex change surgery, most people report feeling better. Over time, however, the initial euphoria wears off. The distress returns, but this time it is exacerbated by having a body that is irrevocably molded to look like the opposite gender. That’s what happened to me, and that’s what the people with regret who write to me say happened to them.

a reply to: Boadicea

I know you're lying now, because no one is "forced" to get SRS - as a matter of fact, the majority of trans people don't get the surgery.

Gender dysphoria and autogynephilia are two completely different conditions, with different treatments. A good therapist will tell the difference.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Where was her concern for the poster who revealed how hard the teen years were for someone with gender dysphoria? It was like "big deal, you weren't the only one who suffered". That was just cold. Nope, the OP just played her hand there. She doesn't really care about people with gender dysphoria.

Do people start threads just so everyone will post their agreement? Do people start threads and expect anyone who disagrees to keep quiet? Who is "removing views"? Unless, you are trying to remove our views...

My thoughts exactly. And then this random nonsense about saying we're all in some posse? Doesn't make sense AT ALL. You don't see anyone else saying that those backing OP are a part of OP's posse. We could all agree to disagree. But this is a forum. If everyone agreed to disagree there'd be no threads or discussions.

And no one is arguing that having a differing opinion is wrong. Though when 'opinions' are being put forth as assertions and facts without any evidence, then of course people are going to rightfully refute it. People are entitled to opinions, but when assertions and facts are being argued, there's no room for those that continue to ship a narrative that not only does not have evidence to support it, but has evidence to refute it.

And completely agree. No one is ganging up on anyone. It's debating, When other's are sticking up for Sheye because of some supposed 'empathy' or 'compassion' she is trying to show...or she is 'opening her heart', i have yet to see a concrete method by which she has shown this. She has the pity act down one minute by saying how she feels bad for them, but the very next she describes their 'demons', calls them 'repulsive' says they just need to 'grow up' when it comes to their depression and suicidal tendencies...and furthermore, the moment someone provides their heart-wrenching, firsthand account, she replies with "You're not the only one who suffered". What a grand gesture and way to show compassion by telling someone to suck it up.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

So, by "progress" , you mean we end up agreeing with you? How about the other way around? We could also progress if you agree with us. Why aren't you open to our views?

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

There are some studies. Just Google it. The real science sites, not the religious right-wing blogs.

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Where was her concern for the poster who revealed how hard the teen years were for someone with gender dysphoria? It was like "big deal, you weren't the only one who suffered". That was just cold. Nope, the OP just played her hand there. She doesn't really care about people with gender dysphoria.

Do people start threads just so everyone will post their agreement? Do people start threads and expect anyone who disagrees to keep quiet? Who is "removing views"? Unless, you are trying to remove our views...

My thoughts exactly. And then this random nonsense about saying we're all in some posse? Doesn't make sense AT ALL. You don't see anyone else saying that those backing OP are a part of OP's posse. We could all agree to disagree. But this is a forum. If everyone agreed to disagree there'd be no threads or discussions.

And no one is arguing that having a differing opinion is wrong. Though when 'opinions' are being put forth as assertions and facts without any evidence, then of course people are going to rightfully refute it. People are entitled to opinions, but when assertions and facts are being argued, there's no room for those that continue to ship a narrative that not only does not have evidence to support it, but has evidence to refute it.

And completely agree. No one is ganging up on anyone. It's debating, When other's are sticking up for Sheye because of some supposed 'empathy' or 'compassion' she is trying to show...or she is 'opening her heart', i have yet to see a concrete method by which she has shown this. She has the pity act down one minute by saying how she feels bad for them, but the very next she describes their 'demons', calls them 'repulsive' says they just need to 'grow up' when it comes to their depression and suicidal tendencies...and furthermore, the moment someone provides their heart-wrenching, firsthand account, she replies with "You're not the only one who suffered". What a grand gesture and way to show compassion by telling someone to suck it up.

I see .... it's apparent now its the LGBTQ community that requires coddling.

Should I feel pity for the child who spent his life in a miserable childhood because he couldn't have a rich family like some kids from the other side of town ?

If a kid has vagina or penis envy , it has to do with deeper psychological issues in my opinion, and they deserve no more coddling than the the Christian kid who is called homophobic and beat up daily because he doesn't want to engage in anal sex with the classroom bullies. Tired of trans telling their childhood sob stories when there are plenty of childhood sob stories that have nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Well to be fair to sheye, she has been pushed to her limit. I've been reading along and she has for the most part tried to keep her cool. We're only humans after all.

Also it's possible to agree to disagree, and still be able to have a civil discussion. In fact, that's probably the way we should be doing it when it comes to a sensitive subject such as this.

Present your opinions or facts, and let the people discern on their own. When you try to force opinions in such an aggressive manner, it is actually counter productive.

Like I said, in the past week or so alone, there has been well over 100 pages on this subject, and the discussion imo hasn't even moved a foot. We're just going in circles, and at the pace we are going now, will only go in circles for another 100.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Where was her concern for the poster who revealed how hard the teen years were for someone with gender dysphoria? It was like "big deal, you weren't the only one who suffered". That was just cold. Nope, the OP just played her hand there. She doesn't really care about people with gender dysphoria.

Do people start threads just so everyone will post their agreement? Do people start threads and expect anyone who disagrees to keep quiet? Who is "removing views"? Unless, you are trying to remove our views...

My thoughts exactly. And then this random nonsense about saying we're all in some posse? Doesn't make sense AT ALL. You don't see anyone else saying that those backing OP are a part of OP's posse. We could all agree to disagree. But this is a forum. If everyone agreed to disagree there'd be no threads or discussions.

And no one is arguing that having a differing opinion is wrong. Though when 'opinions' are being put forth as assertions and facts without any evidence, then of course people are going to rightfully refute it. People are entitled to opinions, but when assertions and facts are being argued, there's no room for those that continue to ship a narrative that not only does not have evidence to support it, but has evidence to refute it.

And completely agree. No one is ganging up on anyone. It's debating, When other's are sticking up for Sheye because of some supposed 'empathy' or 'compassion' she is trying to show...or she is 'opening her heart', i have yet to see a concrete method by which she has shown this. She has the pity act down one minute by saying how she feels bad for them, but the very next she describes their 'demons', calls them 'repulsive' says they just need to 'grow up' when it comes to their depression and suicidal tendencies...and furthermore, the moment someone provides their heart-wrenching, firsthand account, she replies with "You're not the only one who suffered". What a grand gesture and way to show compassion by telling someone to suck it up.

I see .... it's apparent now its the LGBTQ community that requires coddling. Tired of trans telling their childhood sob stories when there are plenty of childhood sob stories that have nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

Soooo much concern from the heart there.
At least you have finally admitted your lack of concern, which proved your whole OP is a lie.