The transgender con ? Many transgender regret switch

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

Unfortunately, it has become quite evident that even when peer-reviewed scientific studies have been presented that is contrary to an age-old held belief/opinion....it gets blatantly and outright ignored.

Much like you ignore studies by other peer reviewed groups.

Nice strawman. Lmfao! I asked you on countless occasions for them. So did other posters. But you never provided them or you said "You wouldn't look at them anyway"

Puhlease.

Lol, provide them. Again, if you have any that support your assertions, I told you I would be happy to review them. So did Peter...so did Deaf Alien and so did other posters.

Let's see these other peer-reviewed literary scientific reports that you're talking about. I'll be waiting.

A whole thread was started about one ,but you and your posse basically puthem down as biased.

The only peer reviewed studies you seem to accept are within the atheist groups.
Thats what science has seemed to boiled down to these days .. atheism and the atheists shoving their peer reviewed studies down our throats like it is ultimate truth.

This is the reason I say I will be patient .. and wait .. for higher spiritual knowledge and judgement on this whole issue.

I simply don't trust scientists ( the atheist ones ) and their motivations anymore.

The fact remains there are those who deeply regret their surgeries... and if this thread helped just one person from experiencing this regret.. it did what it was intended to do.

a reply to: Nyiah

Then stop proving the point & stop talking the arrogant bigot talk.

What are you even talking about??? I defy you to show one example in this thread or elsewhere where I have talked the "arrogant bigot talk."

Walk the educated Christian walk instead.

Really? What exactly would that be? The one and only commandment Jesus gave: "Love one another as I have loved you." As in actually caring about the folks being hurt by profit- and agenda driven treatments? I already did that... and we both know where that got me.

And we both know who didn't give a rat's patootie about those being hurt -- throughout this entire thread -- and simply saw it as another opportunity to hit Christians over the head with their oh-so-enlightened club.

a reply to: Sheye

A good therapist is what one who has gender dysphoria really needs. A good therapist will help you down the right path for you - whatever that path may be. Make sure they are a member of The APA, so you get a reputable one.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

Unfortunately, it has become quite evident that even when peer-reviewed scientific studies have been presented that is contrary to an age-old held belief/opinion....it gets blatantly and outright ignored.

Much like you ignore studies by other peer reviewed groups.

Nice strawman. Lmfao! I asked you on countless occasions for them. So did other posters. But you never provided them or you said "You wouldn't look at them anyway"

Puhlease.

Lol, provide them. Again, if you have any that support your assertions, I told you I would be happy to review them. So did Peter...so did Deaf Alien and so did other posters.

Let's see these other peer-reviewed literary scientific reports that you're talking about. I'll be waiting.

A whole thread was started about one ,but you and your posse basically puthem down as biased.

The only peer reviewed studies you seem to accept are within the atheist groups.
Thats what science has seemed to boiled down to these days .. atheism and the atheists shoving their peer reviewed studies down our throats like it is ultimate truth.

This is the reason I say I will be patient .. and wait .. for higher spiritual knowledge and judgement on this whole issue.

I simply don't trust scientists ( the atheist ones ) and their motivations anymore.

Ok. I really don't think that you understand the way that science even works. You display bias because you think that all you're ever getting from atheist scientists (how would you know that they are atheists? what's that even got to do with the matter? Research is research) is bias?
That's not he way that it works. Really, it's not.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

Unfortunately, it has become quite evident that even when peer-reviewed scientific studies have been presented that is contrary to an age-old held belief/opinion....it gets blatantly and outright ignored.

Much like you ignore studies by other peer reviewed groups.

Nice strawman. Lmfao! I asked you on countless occasions for them. So did other posters. But you never provided them or you said "You wouldn't look at them anyway"

Puhlease.

Lol, provide them. Again, if you have any that support your assertions, I told you I would be happy to review them. So did Peter...so did Deaf Alien and so did other posters.

Let's see these other peer-reviewed literary scientific reports that you're talking about. I'll be waiting.

A whole thread was started about one ,but you and your posse basically puthem down as biased.

The only peer reviewed studies you seem to accept are within the atheist groups.
Thats what science has seemed to boiled down to these days .. atheism and the atheists shoving their peer reviewed studies down our throats like it is ultimate truth.

This is the reason I say I will be patient .. and wait .. for higher spiritual knowledge and judgement on this whole issue.

I simply don't trust scientists ( the atheist ones ) and their motivations anymore.

The reports that were posted were not from 'atheist' scientists. Their religion didn't play a part within the actual report AT ALL. There's no way to see what religion they are, as again, it had nothing to do with the research in which they conducted. You're copping out of my request to produce a report that you claimed to have.

And your OP contained an ARTICLE. An article on a website is NOT the same as a peer-reviewed scientific report. Furthermore, your ARTICLE was biased. It referenced an actual study (albeit dated), but the ARTICLE didn't s much as make a link to the original. So no, we didn't ignore anything as nothing legitimate was posted.

See. you don't have anything. You also seem to misunderstand what counts as a peer-reviewed literary report. This isn't a matter of opinion. This is something most educational institutes teach you.

This is just another way for you to prevent yourself from having to face the facts that you have no information to provide. Again, myself and other posters told you we'd be happy to review the peer-reviewed studies you keep claiming to have. But again, you neglect to share these with us for review. Where is this 'entire thread' in which you're referencing? Where did we put down anything? Oh, right, we didn't. You're making things up again.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

I wasn't whining about religion at all.

Call it what you will, play deaf, dumb and blind if you will, it's still bull:

It'll always be something because it threatens their limited perspective at what is deemed acceptable and moral in accordance to their religious beliefs.

And the rest of your post is just more of the same bull.

wow yeah i'm done.
that was a really really hard post to write, and though i expected no less of a response, actually seeing it in the black and white is a bit much to handle right after such heavy emotional dredging.

knowing that even now, so many years later, this is still considered a topic open to 'debate',
that girls are still being made to go through the horror i did....
that's a real bitter pill and it's very hard to live with.

thank you reya and kayla and everyone who appreciates what i put into that.
i'm gonna dry my eyes and go watch some tv starring healthy, empowered lgbt people
and remind myself that despite the worst wishes of the nastiest people,
things are slowly getting better.
❤️💛💚💙💜

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

I wasn't whining about religion at all.

Call it what you will, play deaf, dumb and blind if you will, it's still bull:

It'll always be something because it threatens their limited perspective at what is deemed acceptable and moral in accordance to their religious beliefs.

And the rest of your post is just more of the same bull.

Pointing out the simple fact that the ultra religious have continued to find things to bark about is not whining.

In fact, it's pointing out the fact they THEY are whining. Nice try, but not nice try.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest. Let's see what silly platitudes you'll dip into next.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
wow yeah i'm done.
that was a really really hard post to write, and though i expected no less of a response, actually seeing it in the black and white is a bit much to handle right after such heavy emotional dredging.

knowing that even now, so many years later, this is still considered a topic open to 'debate',
that girls are still being made to go through the horror i did....
that's a real bitter pill and it's very hard to live with.

thank you reya and kayla and everyone who appreciates what i put into that.
i'm gonna dry my eyes and go watch some tv starring healthy, empowered lgbt people
and remind myself that despite the worst wishes of the nastiest people,
things are slowly getting better.
❤️💛💚💙💜

You continue being you. 💚

Don't let ANYONE ever make you feel insignificant in any way. You have clearly been put through the ringer and you came out on top to make your life happy in the way you both deserved and wished it to be. People are only people.

You are strong. You are a rock to the many others who are still awaiting for their pain and struggling to cease. Just know that even when you read these posts..know that your post is here, preserved in our virtual e-world and is there for others to read...others that are suffering like you did. I imagine they can find hope in your words.

My heart goes out to you.

a reply to: continuousThunder

Try to ignore the haters. It IS slowly getting better, despite what the alt-right here on ATS say.

This subject is being talked about more, and more of the general population is becoming aware and more sensitive to what trans folk are going through. Even in my uber conservative state of Texas, there are tons of people protesting AGAINST laws blocking trans people using the restroom that fits their gender. The Christian Taliban government is strong in Texas, though, it remains to be seen whether the law will get passed.

Hang tough. You have supporters who've got your back.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

This thread was about transgendered who regretted surgeries, not about peer based scientific review.
Yes, it's just an article but the testimonies are what mattered to me.

Are you denying there are none who have deep regrets?

This is what this thread is about, and you continually bash on my source as biased.

The source also claims that many transgendered don't feel they have the freedom to express their regrets as they will be attacked by the LGBTQ community... and if this thread is any indication, I would agree with that.

Even Caitlin Jenner admitted becoming a woman wasn't as gratifying as he expected. ( I saw him in an interview .. can't remember which one)

I would love to read the minds of transgendered, because only then may we get the actual honest truth on their happiness.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: continuousThunder

Or you could have been like the 13 year old who killed herself despite support from family and school.

Puberty is a bitch for many adolescents ... you think you are the only one who suffered?

Ok... so you've proven to me two things. One, you have zero compassion and empathy for those who are suffering (or have suffered) from gender dysphoria. And two, you admit that the reason you casually dismiss facts, science, and first-hand experience is because of your religious beliefs.

Since I can't talk somebody into having compassion and, since empathy is more of a trait, I'll just focus on the second thing.

Your religion. Why do you think your gods have an issue with trans people? It's not in your bible. The closest thing I can think of that you might be mentally citing is about cross dressing which has nothing to do with gender dysphoria. Not only that but it's right next to commands telling you to only eat the baby birds from a nest on a ground instead of the mother and how you are to marry your rapist. I'm not kidding.

So is that what this is about? In between making sure women marry their rapists and eating baby birds, you spend your science denial energy on making sure people wear clothing you find acceptable? If so, do you realize that cross dressing and gender dysphoria are not related, right? Transvestites are not transsexuals. Big difference.

So if that's not the part of the bible you are thinking of, why are you so quick to flippantly ignore experts and people with lived experiences only to drag up dogma sites with no basis in science? Why do you do this? Why do you not entertain the possibility that among all of the other things your gods get wrong (or gifts with challenges) like cleft lips, missing limbs, dyslexia, etc... why isn't the incongruity of neurology and body put in the same category of holy mishaps for gender dysphoria?

Why do you do this?

originally posted by: Sheye
The fact remains there are those who deeply regret their surgeries... and if this thread helped just one person from experiencing this regret.. it did what it was intended to do.

I think it has actually helped quite a bit... especially in terms of forcing others to at least acknowledge the suffering of others and not pretend like life is just hunky dory except for all of us awful cis people bullying trans people. When I started posting, that was consistently ignored while you and your source were consistently attacked.

As far as all the studies these folks harping upon, there is a huge problem with faulty studies being deemed "science" by "consensus." There is no such thing. Science, by definition, requires that the same exact results can be consistently replicated in the same conditions and circumstances each and every time. Psychology studies are especially faulty in this area.

Like anything else in life, and as we have both said, adults can do as they will with their bodies... but they deserve all known facts and information available in order to make the best decision for themselves.

And just because this needs to be said: Folks can take God out of any consideration they so choose, and we can put God into any consideration we so choose. No one has said "because God you have to do this or you can't do that." The most either of us has done is include Heavenly matters in trying to understand earthly matters.

You've done an awesome job here, Sheye.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

Unfortunately, it has become quite evident that even when peer-reviewed scientific studies have been presented that is contrary to an age-old held belief/opinion....it gets blatantly and outright ignored.

Much like you ignore studies by other peer reviewed groups.

Nice strawman. Lmfao! I asked you on countless occasions for them. So did other posters. But you never provided them or you said "You wouldn't look at them anyway"

Puhlease.

Lol, provide them. Again, if you have any that support your assertions, I told you I would be happy to review them. So did Peter...so did Deaf Alien and so did other posters.

Let's see these other peer-reviewed literary scientific reports that you're talking about. I'll be waiting.

A whole thread was started about one ,but you and your posse basically put them down as biased.

She has a posse? That's wicked cool! How do I join? Seriously though, I must have missed that so if you could provide those citations, I would love to read them.

The only peer reviewed studies you seem to accept are within the atheist groups.

Which atheist groups are those? In all the time I worked in Anthropology, I never once encountered a rogue atheist group attempting to take over the halls of academia.

Thats what science has seemed to boiled down to these days .. atheism and the atheists shoving their peer reviewed studies down our throats like it is ultimate truth.

How would you know what the papers are shoving down anyone's throats when you haven't read them? Furthermore, how do you know the religious backgrounds of the authors? Or is it an assumption you are making based on the science not agreeing with your preconceived notions?

This is the reason I say I will be patient .. and wait .. for higher spiritual knowledge and judgement on this whole issue.

But until then, you're comfortable judging people that at the end of the day, don't actually have any effects on your day to day life? Interesting.

I simply don't trust scientists ( the atheist ones ) and their motivations anymore.

Unfortunately, even the scientists who are Christians write papers on genetics that disagree with your views. How do you so easily explain them away with a dismissive wave of the hand?

If you don't trust science, then you don't appear to understand the scientific method or how peer review works. And if you cared to know these important details, you would have read the citations provided.

Regarding the article that is the source for your OP, they didn't cite the ARFIS study, which is pretty suspect in and of itself so unlike you, I read the source material. Do you know what it says? Let's have a gander...

WARNING This is a brief summary of the evidence available at the time. Readers should not use the comments made in isolation and may wish to consult the references provided. Please be aware that new evidence may have become available since the request’s completion in April 1997 and Update in July 2004.

All of the citations I have provided were from the last 5-6 years. Much more up to date data than the 20 year old data compiled by ARFIS, who btw works to aid the NHS in Britain with a specific focus on the West Midlands. Just to provide a little context for you.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

This thread was about transgendered who regretted surgeries, not about peer based scientific review.
Yes, it's just an article but the testimonies are what mattered to me.

Are you denying there are none who have deep regrets?

This is what this thread is about, and you continually bash on my source as biased.

The source also claims that many transgendered don't feel they have the freedom to express their regrets as they will be attacked by the LGBTQ community... and if this thread is any indication, I would agree with that.

Even Caitlin Jenner admitted becoming a woman wasn't as gratifying as he expected. ( I saw him in an interview .. can't remember which one)

I would love to read the minds of transgendered, because only then may we get the actual honest truth on their happiness.

Again, you deflect the fact that you do not have facts by discrediting the creditable. And did you read any of my posts?

I never once said that there weren't those that regretted it. I mentioned it on more than one occasion. The 2004 studies showed inconclusiveness, your confirmed biased article misrepresented this INCONCLUSIVENESS in a manner they shipped as it being CONCLUSIVE that SRS was ineffective. Which is not the case.Some do regret SRS, but NOT ALL. Just like how not all that move forward with SRS didn't regret it. As inconclusive as the study ended up being, the reasons for which a person would regret SRS is inconclusive and speculative, as there are obviously differing reasons one might regret it.

You missed the point and didn't read any of my posts.

And your attempts to discredit scientific study by saying "This thread isn't about peer reviewed studies" is pretty much you admitting you know your source is biased but you don't care so long as it conveniently backs your flawed assertion.

a reply to: Boadicea

Yeah I remember your "concern for the poor transgender victims of the big bad medical industry" when you wrote that thread about the evil transgender people who were just perverts in disguise - remember that autogynephilia thread? Soooo much concern there, but not for trans people, if I recall.

a reply to: Sheye

Oh..and I'm still waiting for those peer-reviewed scientific reports you said you have.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

This thread was about transgendered who regretted surgeries, not about peer based scientific review.
Yes, it's just an article but the testimonies are what mattered to me.

Are you denying there are none who have deep regrets?

This is what this thread is about, and you continually bash on my source as biased.

The source also claims that many transgendered don't feel they have the freedom to express their regrets as they will be attacked by the LGBTQ community... and if this thread is any indication, I would agree with that.

Even Caitlin Jenner admitted becoming a woman wasn't as gratifying as he expected. ( I saw him in an interview .. can't remember which one)

I would love to read the minds of transgendered, because only then may we get the actual honest truth on their happiness.

So several trans people and people who actually know trans people on this site, telling you that you are wrong about this... are part of your outlandish conspiracy to silence regret? Good god.

And to the Caitlin Jenner interview. You didn't watch it. Because it doesn't exist. There was an email chain claiming she regretted her transition and it was all a hoax (think bat boy or that draino cures cancer, etc). The closest thing she said is that she made mistakes during her early stages of transition that she would do differently to make her transition more smooth. Nearly every trans person I know has that regret (self included). That is not a regret of transitioning; that's a regret of not being better informed before beginning the transition. The only people I've not heard that regret from are from adults who were lucky enough to be allowed transition as children.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Ok. I really don't think that you understand the way that science even works. You display bias because you think that all you're ever getting from atheist scientists (how would you know that they are atheists? what's that even got to do with the matter? Research is research) is bias?
That's not he way that it works. Really, it's not.

Maybe... maybe not.

I do know that true science -- not "consensus" -- requires that results can be replicated by anyone each and every time in the same circumstances and conditions. There has been plenty of news reports of late that too many studies -- yes, including peer-reviewed studies -- are not able to be replicated. And this is especially true in psychology studies, which is especially relevant in trans issues. As acknowledged many times previously in this thread, the studies -- and therefore the science -- are incomplete, and therefore inconclusive.

However, what is not disputed and can be easily replicated is the known adverse reactions and outcomes to any surgical procedure, as well as the HRT. Not just for trans persons but for everyone.

And as far as bias, more often than not it has nothing to do with religion... well, at least not the almighty God, more like the almighty dollar. But mentioning God does not validate or invalidate truth.