The transgender con ? Many transgender regret switch

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth
a reply to: kaylaluv
a reply to: testingtesting

So fricking pathetic. For all your crying and whining about Christians (and others of faith), when you have two right here trying their damnedest to understand the issues and address them with compassion and empathy, this is where you go??? Mocking? Ridicule? Insults??? Just gonna throw all Christians under the same bus because it suits your purposes? Because all Christians are exactly the same??? Just like ALL transgenders are exactly the same. Yeah, right.

And by the way, it's not only rude and insulting to discuss others this way, it's against the T&Cs.

I wasn't whining about religion at all. In fact I didnt bring it up at all in this thread until Sheye brought it up in her playing victim run. And even when it was brought up I didn't attack. I made points much like Sheye did. And it's hilarious that you're gaslighting now by saying I did something that you actually did.

You're whining about something no one has done. I didn't attack OP. I continued to ask the same questions from post to post because she continued to ignore them, but never once did I attack her.

And I didnt just say someone was a bigot simply for disagreeing. I never used the word tranpshobe once. Nor did I say all Christians were the same. I could argue that it's against TandC to spew outright lies about your fellow ATS poster. And you're the one name calling, lmao. Calling people pathetic? i'm certain childish antics like name calling are against T&C. I have NEVER argued and disbelieved someone solely off the basis that they do not agree or believe the same thing. Lmao. You're not even reading my posts. At all. That much is obvious.

I argued at OPs article and how it made INCONCLUSIVE data look CONCLUSIVE. And I debated Sheye because she continued to post her thoughts/beliefs/assertions/whatever-you'd-like-to-label-them without any evidence aside from dated data from almost 15 years ago that was being misrepresented anyhow and also by saying "Time will tell when Jesus judges" or some solely-belief-contrived "evidence". I then called for her blatant willful ignorance because, just like in other threads, when actual scientific studies were linked for her review and other questions were being asked, she deflected and completely ignored them.

And I only questioned her about the religious part of it because she has now made the decision to include it. Which she is free to do. She is free to believe what she wants. And no one has bullied or attacked her for HAVING the opinion. Not once did I say "Go home, Christian!" That would be an example of bullying. I didn't attack or bully and never have. Nor did I align myself as a part of some "posse" that banded together for the sole purpose of attacking the OP . Other posters here present their platform and then provide citation and backup. Sheye provides her religiously inclined platform (again, because you seem to not read posts in their entirety, I'll say it again: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING CHRISTIAN.
I DO NOT THINK ALL CHRISTIANS ARE THE SAME. I imagine the caps will suffice, as they will be easier for your skimming eyes to witness.) devoid of any actual evidence and then expects not to get called out on it. No one is going to coddle you here when you start discussing things without any solid evidence to back them up or if you have absolutely no knowledge on that matter and make it known that you do not care to learn more on the matter.

I never once adhommed. In fact, you have by claiming I operate from some random gilded horse you've made up and you're lying and saying I did something I didn't. All you have proven this far is that you didn't read my posts with comprehension, as you continue to make adhommed assumptions and you continue to create problems out of thin air by lying and saying I did something that I obviously did not. I asked for proof that I attacked and all you can muster as proof is "perpesctive's a bitch". Lol, that's not proof, that's clearly a personal matter.

I don't align myself or represent alongside anyone else here. I'm here of my own accord. So to lump myself with other posters, that's completely nonsensical and is further made up foolishness from you to back up your already foolish and concocted arguments. I'm sure those you lumped in that post would say the same thing. We didn't group together and premeditate a plan as a "posse" to come in here with guns ablaze. This is just another scarecrow for your strawman army.

You don't see me lumping you and Sheye together. Lol, it seems you did that yourself. So stop with the actual adhoms and lies. Stop claiming others are guilty when it was you who are guilty of these things.

I will await your cognitive dissonance as it is all you continue to provide. That, and unfounded assumptions devoid of proof and unwarranted and nonsensical adhoms.

originally posted by: sapien82
Im so happy I like my natal sex , I couldnt imagine going through any of this stuff, must be confusing , hell puberty is confusing enough with your own natal sex

Every time these threads come up implying that being transgender is a big mistake, I am reminded of the former ATS member who tried to tell her story here -- of being a child with gender dysphoria. From the age of 4, telling her conservative parents from the South that she was a girl. Her parents ignored her at first, thinking it was just a phase. When she kept insisting at age 5 and 6, they sat down and explained anatomy, and that because she had a penis, that meant she was a boy.

When she continued to insist and wanted to wear girl clothes, they started punishing her by not allowing her to go to other children's birthday parties, or to pool parties, because she insisted on wearing dresses or girl's swimsuits. They even resorted to spanking her to try to get her to stop. None of these tactics worked. She kept insisting she was a girl.

When she was around 10, she learned about puberty and what was going to start happening to her body. This made her despondent. She went to her parents and very calmly told them that she would not live through puberty. If they didn't get her some help, she WOULD find a way to kill herself.

This declaration scared them enough to get her into therapy. From there she was referred to a therapist that specialized in kids with gender dysphoria. After much discussion, it was recommended that she get hormone blockers to delay puberty and give her and her parents more time (and more therapy). By the time she was around 16, she started hormone therapy. This was 12 years since she first started insisting she was a girl. In all those years, and with everything her parents did to try to stop her, she never wavered.

When she was around 18, she had the sex reassignment surgery. Last I heard (a couple months ago - she's in her early 20's now), she is working on her advanced degree in astrophysics and is very happy. Because she was able to avoid the permanent effects of puberty, no one in her daily life that she interacts with knows her natal sex. Only her family, her boyfriend and a few close friends know.

She has a good relationship with her parents now. They have expressed great regret that they fought her for so many years, making her childhood pretty miserable, but she has forgiven them knowing that it was difficult for them to even comprehend what she was really going through.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: sapien82
Im so happy I like my natal sex , I couldnt imagine going through any of this stuff, must be confusing , hell puberty is confusing enough with your own natal sex

Every time these threads come up implying that being transgender is a big mistake, I am reminded of the former ATS member who tried to tell her story here -- of being a child with gender dysphoria. From the age of 4, telling her conservative parents from the South that she was a girl. Her parents ignored her at first, thinking it was just a phase. When she kept insisting at age 5 and 6, they sat down and explained anatomy, and that because she had a penis, that meant she was a boy.

When she continued to insist and wanted to wear girl clothes, they started punishing her by not allowing her to go to other children's birthday parties, or to pool parties, because she insisted on wearing dresses or girl's swimsuits. They even resorted to spanking her to try to get her to stop. None of these tactics worked. She kept insisting she was a girl.

When she was around 10, she learned about puberty and what was going to start happening to her body. This made her despondent. She went to her parents and very calmly told them that she would not live through puberty. If they didn't get her some help, she WOULD find a way to kill herself.

This declaration scared them enough to get her into therapy. From there she was referred to a therapist that specialized in kids with gender dysphoria. After much discussion, it was recommended that she get hormone blockers to delay puberty and give her and her parents more time (and more therapy). By the time she was around 16, she started hormone therapy. This was 12 years since she first started insisting she was a girl. In all those years, and with everything her parents did to try to stop her, she never wavered.

When she was around 18, she had the sex reassignment surgery. Last I heard (a couple months ago - she's in her early 20's now), she is working on her advanced degree in astrophysics and is very happy. Because she was able to avoid the permanent effects of puberty, no one in her daily life that she interacts with knows her natal sex. Only her family, her boyfriend and a few close friends know.

She has a good relationship with her parents now. They have expressed great regret that they fought her for so many years, making her childhood pretty miserable, but she has forgiven them knowing that it was difficult for them to even comprehend what she was really going through.

Very, very touching and sweet. Thank you, Kayla, for sharing this.

SRS is not that common within the trans community as a whole, and of course some may regret it. But others may not. This isn't a black and white issue. And for those that may have regretted it, there's no way to prove why they regret it. It's all speculative. The dated 2004 study that was done, if anything, proved how speculative SRS 'effectiveness' really is. All we have to go off of are sad stories of people that regret it (for whatever differing reasons) and the stories of those that it actually helped.

Thank you for sharing

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Sheye

I think deep down, most Christians are very unhappy and regret their decision to be Christians, but will deny, deny, deny it to keep it hidden.

See how that works?

Christians can change their minds ... they don't have to deal with deep remorse over body mutilation.

See how that works ?

But that would make the religion look bad, so the Christian organizations hide it.

As a matter of fact, I think you are very unhappy being a Christian, but you are being forced to suppress it by the Christian community.

Well , you find some Christians who feel that way and start a thread ... I'll be looking for it.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

You most crrtainly did attack Christianity even by saying the article was faith based therefore was totally biased.
We can't say anything about God in scientific study because according to you that makes it all bullocks.

You think you don't attack Reya , but your posts are dripping with condescending arrogance in my opinion.

Lets agree to disagree 😁

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Sheye

Gallup poll- www.gallup.com...

Christian source- www.religioustolerance.org...

This has a breakdown of all the Christian denominations- en.m.wikipedia.org...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Wikipedia articles show just under 71% identify as Christians but I'm not sure how recent that has been updates. I'll be happy to go with 71% though if you're more Comfortable with that number. It's still approximately a 23:2 ratio

According to the Christian denomination breakdown it's more like 67% and declining every year.

Might want to check your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

I wish those few who weren't Christian could be a little more tolerant of us.. Some make a lot of noise about our ignorant religious beliefs and quite frankly it gets old.

Well that goes both ways. When people admit that they refuse to look at any peer reviewed literature and then claim it is biased and faulty and then hide behind their faith, it's not just old but it's disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. How can you claim that the papers are biased or flawed if you haven't bothered to read them? It's a pertinent question because you are purposely making the messy informed opinions you possibly can. You can think or say whatever you like to about myself or my position. But the difference is that I actually read your sources and then engage in due diligence by checking the literature they misrepresent, such as the ARFIS paper used to prop up the article you're OP is based on. The original paper does t actually say what your source material claims. But people using science to support their assertions are illogical and biased according to you. If the preponderance of peer reviewed data reflected what you are claiming, I would be supporting your assertions. It really is that simple. And the fact remains that not every person is born XX or XY and that there are many ways that different genes express themselves in different people. But I tried explaining that to you the other day and you wanted nothing to do with it.

But, we are prepared for worse as Christians. Some of you want our children because you claim child abuse for teaching fairy tales. Let you will applaud someone for the fairy tale of complete gender transition, which is impossible.

Some of who? I'm not sure why you insist on misrepresenting me or my personal ideologies because I have never once advocated for removing a child from loving parents regardless of their religious, or no religious, background. The only instance I could see myself pushing for such a thing is if the parent was using their personal interpretation of their faith as a rationale for physically or emotionally abusing their children. But I would have the same response with no regard for their faith. Anyone who harms a child purposely gets no pity from me whether they're a Catholic, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Ba Ha'i, a Taoist, an Atheist or a member of the Church of Satan. Abusing children is an unforgivable act regardless of the reason behind it.

As for your final sentence, there's not much point in replying or providing citations because you've told me repeatedly that you have not and will not read them. At the end of the day, you choose willful ignorance became e you simply will not entertain the notion that you could be wrong. If every man woman and child were born with only 2 possible genetic makeups then I would agree with you that transition is impossible. But Turner Stndrome and Kleinfelder Syndrome are well known and have been for decades and proves that there is no cookie cutter genetic, phylogenetic or morphological perspective in this regard.

If you ever want to educate yourself, I am always happy to provide a multitude of citations and links to open source peer reviewed data to show you what I'm talking about. Until then, I will continue to read your source material and avoid the trap of willful ignorance and confirmation bias. And I will continue to respond when I see things being gaslights and misrepresented because even if you are unwilling to look, there may be others who will read the information and gain some additionall knowledge and insight into why some people are Transgendered and why the percentage of the population that is TG falls right in line with the number of people born with genetic makeup outside of XX or XY along
With the myriad of genetic mutations or varied ways genes express themselves in utero long before children have a concept of self or sexuality.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

You most crrtainly did attack Christianity even by saying the article was faith based therefore was totally biased.
We can't say anything about God in scientific study because according to you that makes it all bullocks.

You think you don't attack Reya , but your posts are dripping with condescending arrogance in my opinion.

Lets agree to disagree 😁

I did not attack religion or Christianity. Lmao. It is faith based because it mentions God. And yes, if you had done the additional research into the publisher, you would see they have also backed other topics in a biased manner. That's not attacking. That is pointing out the fact that it's a weak 'source'. I wouldn't recommend using any biased articles from ANY stance as a source material. I mean, this sort of principle, is something they teach you in elementary school. What makes a source a proper source is that it conveys accurate and unbiased information.

Your article in OP did neither, so it was pointed out to you by myself and by other posters. That's not bullying or attacking. You cannot expect to be coddled here when you're trying to ship a certain assertion and your 'source material' is biased.

So, no, there is no proof that I "most certainly" attacked your Christianity. You continue to pull that whole persecuted Christian nonsense. Lmao. And no, my words are not dripping with condescending tones. No one can make you feel any way but you. You want to take heed to my written words in a way where you feel patronized, that's on you. I didn't name call. I didn't attack you. You took my posts and my continued request for information as you profusely ignored the question way too personally and call it 'attacking'.

You don't see me yelling that you're attacking science because you completely ignore every bout of evidence that has been put forth for your review,lmao.

a reply to: sapien82

honestly, puberty was an unrelenting hell on earth.
i spent my entire childhood being mocked mercilessly by school bullies and my parents for being such a girl, which was brutal enough already because i couldn't help being a fey, mousy little kid, but then puberty kicked in and it got so very much worse.
trans stuff wasn't ever talked about back then, so i didn't even learn trans was a thing until i was 18
but i'd started feeling uncomfortable with my body around 4
and i realised i was a girl "inside" around 13
and i couldn't tell anyone, because i knew how much worse the mocking would get, and i definitely knew my parents would not accept it - i saw their reactions when there were gay people on the news for example, or when men crossdressed in films, and i knew admitting to it would get me nothing but bruises.
so i tried to swallow it and ignore it, but the more puberty set in the more my body changed, and...
have you ever seen The Fly?
i felt like Jeff Goldblum, staggering around with horrific insect parts projecting everywhere, slowly becoming some mutant horror, and all whilst trying to function in the cutthroat teenage world of high school and pretend everything was as it should be.
needless to say, this didn't make it easy to make friends, and i became very outcast.
i still vividly remember sitting in class, feeling like my body was full of poison, just trying to keep my head down, hide my self harm scars, and make it through another nightmare day without breaking completely.
i honestly have no idea how i survived.
but i did, and when i finally got onto estrogen, it was like the sun coming out from behind a cloud.
within a fortnight that lifelong feeling of being full of poison started to fade
and every single day since then i've felt better and more connected to my body.

threads like this upset me so much because maybe if my parents had been less extreme about the views they shared with the OP and had actually been supportive of their child, i might have had an adolescence, instead of a bleak cancerous pit that still hurts to think about a decade later.

a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: sapien82

honestly, puberty was an unrelenting hell on earth.
i spent my entire childhood being mocked mercilessly by school bullies and my parents for being such a girl, which was brutal enough already because i couldn't help being a fey, mousy little kid, but then puberty kicked in and it got so very much worse.
trans stuff wasn't ever talked about back then, so i didn't even learn trans was a thing until i was 18
but i'd started feeling uncomfortable with my body around 4
and i realised i was a girl "inside" around 13
and i couldn't tell anyone, because i knew how much worse the mocking would get, and i definitely knew my parents would not accept it - i saw their reactions when there were gay people on the news for example, or when men crossdressed in films, and i knew admitting to it would get me nothing but bruises.
so i tried to swallow it and ignore it, but the more puberty set in the more my body changed, and...
have you ever seen The Fly?
i felt like Jeff Goldblum, staggering around with horrific insect parts projecting everywhere, slowly becoming some mutant horror, and all whilst trying to function in the cutthroat teenage world of high school and pretend everything was as it should be.
needless to say, this didn't make it easy to make friends, and i became very outcast.
i still vividly remember sitting in class, feeling like my body was full of poison, just trying to keep my head down, hide my self harm scars, and make it through another nightmare day without breaking completely.
i honestly have no idea how i survived.
but i did, and when i finally got onto estrogen, it was like the sun coming out from behind a cloud.
within a fortnight that lifelong feeling of being full of poison started to fade
and every single day since then i've felt better and more connected to my body.

threads like this upset me so much because maybe if my parents had been less extreme about the views they shared with the OP and had actually been supportive of their child, i might have had an adolescence, instead of a bleak cancerous pit that still hurts to think about a decade later.

Wow....I am so sorry for everything you had to go through No one....no one at all should have to go through that. Especially...just to be who they are. Reading your account made me water up.

I'm so, so, so happy (even if we are strangers to one another) that you were able to find the sunshine after the storm. I hope all the best for you.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

sorry forgot to hit reply

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

Unfortunately, it has become quite evident that even when peer-reviewed scientific studies have been presented that is contrary to an age-old held belief/opinion....it gets blatantly and outright ignored.

a reply to: continuousThunder

Or you could have been like the 13 year old who killed herself despite support from family and school.

Puberty is a bitch for many adolescents ... you think you are the only one who suffered?

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

Unfortunately, it has become quite evident that even when peer-reviewed scientific studies have been presented that is contrary to an age-old held belief/opinion....it gets blatantly and outright ignored.

Much like you ignore studies by other peer reviewed groups.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: ReyaPhemhurth

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: peter vlar

Mught esnt to texh DJ your math because it's 70.3%. Mormons and "other Christian" are still Christians

They said it was dropping 1% yearly, study was done in 2014.. so assuming its 67% now is actually the right math.

It was Veracity who threatened to have my children removed if she ever found out they were gender dysphoric.
It's that type of mindset that parents don't appreciate.
Also been told Christianity is a mental illness by some members.. and that's not attacking my faith and my freedoms as a parent?


Scientific studies are also telling us pedophiles brains are just wired differently , so where is your compassion peter( sarcasm)

Let's just say I don't trust your sources for education on this issue. The medical science fields are not finished studying this, and what they have concluded so far can be considered as biased by some.

How many genders for humans now ? What ever happened to good old common sense.

Whatever happened to compassion and realising that we are not all stamped out like cookie-cutters?
Come to that, whatever happened to trying to understand the point of view of others?

Unfortunately, it has become quite evident that even when peer-reviewed scientific studies have been presented that is contrary to an age-old held belief/opinion....it gets blatantly and outright ignored.

Much like you ignore studies by other peer reviewed groups.

Nice strawman. Lmfao! I asked you on countless occasions for them. So did other posters. But you never provided them or you said "You wouldn't look at them anyway"

Puhlease.

Lol, provide them. Again, if you have any that support your assertions, I told you I would be happy to review them. So did Peter...so did Deaf Alien and so did other posters.

Let's see these other peer-reviewed literary scientific reports that you're talking about. I'll be waiting.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: continuousThunder

Or you could have been like the 13 year old who killed herself despite support from family and school.

Puberty is a bitch for many adolescents ... you think you are the only one who suffered?

Really? All you got from that post was you thought they were saying they're the only ones who suffered? Really? SMH. That was CLEARLY not the point of their post. Where's this compassion you claim to have? All you seem concerned about with that post is making sure that they know the world doesn't revolve around them.

a reply to: continuousThunder

Your story reminds me of another former ATS member who also told their story. Her story started in the 1960's, when gender dysphoria was really not known about at all. She also knew from a very young age that her body wasn't right. She suffered horribly in school and was beaten severely at least once. She made it through, and fully transitioned in her early 20's. Now in her early 60's, she has no regrets, only sadness that she had to deal with haters. As an adult, she got married and has had a pretty good life. No one in her community knows her background so life is pretty good, until she tries to discuss this subject in ATS.

a reply to: continuousThunder

why continue being polite when none of you will address a word i say?
it really does not seem caring to say all trans people are repulsive, to continually say we mutilate our bodies or to claim we are full of demons or deny literally every experience of our lives saying you can pray the trans out of us.
and you say *i* am rude?

Yes, indeed, oh puh-lease! Since the rest of your comment was just more the same hyperbole, I'll just address the end.

For example, I'll bet dollars to donuts that you were, in fact, addressed by someone... and given both this comment and the comment I responded too, I'm pretty sure you weren't so polite as you would have me believe. Did no one address your comments? Or did you just not like the response?

I have not seen anyone saying that all trans people are anything or do anything or denying "literally every experience" of your lives in any way, shape or form, much less to "pray the trans out" of you.

Even if others in the thread had said such, there's no good reason to throw everyone under the same bus. And even if the OP has said such before, she's not in this thread, and she deserves respect and consideration for trying to be sensitive and compassionate -- even when it flies in the face of everything she previously believed!!! She is trying to expand her heart and mind, as we have been DEMANDED to do, with the ever-present emotional blackmail hurled at anyone who dares to say one word contrary to the community's stated position. Just do as we say and STFU, eh???

Life doesn't work that way. And ATS sure doesn't work that way.

I can probably guarantee you that my research into hormone-related health issues for myself and the two main women in my life has told me far more about the hormone-related illnesses that can develop than you've ever even considered. In fact, it is such an issue that my research has overlapped with similar trans issues. So please don't tell me how safe it is, while you ignore the obvious suffering -- for which, again, we are constantly emotional manipulated and blackmailed. It's quite obvious that current gender dysphoria treatment is not the bee's knees or there wouldn't be such an issue of depression and suicide... and it's also quite obvious that people do care about their fellow men and women -- trans or not, or the emotional manipulation and blackmail would not be used against society the way it is.

if you cared, you would at least listen to what we say.

People are listening... people can't help but listen! But you could also listen to what others say, especially when they are trying to understand and actually give a damn. At this point, folks are damned if they do and damned if they don't. And that seems to include any and all trans persons that don't fall into lockstep with your rosy picture. They're damned if do and damned if they don't as well. It's called mutual respect and courtesy and being trans doesn't exempt anyone.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: continuousThunder

Or you could have been like the 13 year old who killed herself despite support from family and school.

Puberty is a bitch for many adolescents ... you think you are the only one who suffered?

I think that you have either failed to see the point, or deliberately ignored the point that they were trying to make.