Number of children being referred to gender identity clinics has quadrupled in five years

a reply to: Deaf Alien

How do you have a reasonable discussion with somebody as unreasonable and disingenuous as you?

How is letting a child mature and grow on their own, figuring out the dynamics and nuances of what genders are ON THEIR OWN "forcing" ? See what I mean?

You mean telling kindergarten kids things they can't comprehend yet isn't forcing? Lmao.

a reply to: kaylaluv

No they don't actually, that's just you projecting.

There is no way a 3 year old child can fully understand all the dynamics and nuances of what a gender may or may not entail.

This is a fact, unless you want to continue forcing your fantasy.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

How am I being unreasonable and disingenuous? I was merely repeating what the doctors and researchers said. I even linked you to a site that talks about the symptoms and persistence from a doctor.
And I agree with you that we should let a child mature and grow on their own, figuring out the dynamics. See that's what we are talking about. If a child exhibits behaviors that can be considered gender dysphoria, then let that child mature and explore. If the child is "distressed" that is where they take it to doctors just like any good parents would.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I prefer links to peer-reviewed scientific researches.

Yeah, so do I.

How about this one, I believe you posted it. Do you consider it a link to a peer reviewed scientific study?

Link

I've looked through this thread, I'm not finding the "links to multiple studies" that you say are included in this thread. Maybe I'm just missing them? Perhaps you could point them out?

I tracked down several that were alluded to in links from another thread on the topic, all characterized by small sample sizes, data that lends itself to multiple interpretations and conclusions that were contested by peers.

So if you have anything legit, I'd like to read it.

a reply to: imwilliam

LOL. I linked that same site in a response to Knowledgehunter. That link contains the symptoms and the talk of "persistence" of gender dysphoria. It's a good link. Yeah I would consider it a good study.
Annee posted several links I believe. It's not just in this thread but other threads as well. You can ask Annee for those links when she comes back.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

We can get links from child psychologists to back me up. I think Annee already posted such a link earlier in the thread.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Who was Alexis Arquette?

In 2013, amid increasing health complications, Alexis (pictured left in 2006 with Holly Woodlawn, another pioneering trans actress, who died in December 2015) began presenting herself as a man again, telling Ibrahim that "'gender is bull#.' That 'putting on a dress doesn't biologically change anything. Nor does a sex-change.' She said that 'sex-reassignment is physically impossible. All you can do is adopt these superficial characteristics but the biology will never change.'" That realization, Ibrahim suspects, was the likely source of her deep wells of emotional torment.

Boy, girl, boy again ...

Tired of Being a Woman ...

Chelsea, now living in London, said: 'I have always longed to be a woman, but no amount of surgery can give me an actual female body and I feel like I am living a lie.
'It is exhausting putting on make-up and wearing heels all the time. Even then I don't feel I look like a proper woman.
'I suffered from depression and anxiety as a result of the hormones too.
'I have realised it would be easier to stop fighting the way I look naturally and accept that I was born a man physically.'

The NHS paid to take her from Matthew to Chelsea and now seven years later, she's tired of and ready for the NHS to take her back to Matthew again.

If sex change reversal never happens, then why do you have surgeons who offer the surgery to do it?

These surgeons are known to perform the reversal surgery:

Dr. Sava Perovic, Sava Perovic Foundation Surgery
Dr. Rados Djinovic, Sava Perovic Foundation Surgery
Dr. Miroslav Djordjevic, Belgrade Center for Genital Reconstructive Surgery
Dr. Stan Monstrey, Universitair Ziekenhuis
Dr. Sherman Leis, The Philadelphia Center for Transgender Surgery

I was horrible maimed ...

Britain's Youngest Sex Change Patient Nopes Out ...

Ria Cooper made headlines last year when she became Britain’s youngest sex change patient aged 17, after years of begging her family and the NHS to turn her in to a girl.
But now, having lived as a women for less than a year the 18-year has decided to change back in to a man after suffering huge mental anguish as a woman.
She has cancelled the full sex change operation that was scheduled for January and ceased the female hormone therapy that has seen her develop breasts saying that she has found the changes overwhelming and that they have made her deeply unhappy.
Although Ms Cooper underwent a thorough psychological assessment and counseling at Hull Royal Infirmary prior to starting her sex change therapy she has suffered such torment living as a women that she has tried to commit suicide twice.
She told told the Sunday Mirror: ‘The hormones have made me feel up and down. One minute I feel moody and the next minute I feel really happy.’

Gosh, this one begged for years to get this, and it took less than one year to change her mind too, but since she tried to kill herself twice, she almost didn't get there.

So, yes, it happens.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Kayla, acknowledging that there are genders - boy and girl - at its most basic level does not equate to understanding.

Just because you can count to 10, doesn't mean you know addition or subtraction. You definitely don't know algebra.

a reply to: ketsuko

Alexis was a pretty mentally unstable actor so that doesn't surprise me.
The second one is a link to Daily Mail. Do you have a better source?
The third one is a 45 years old man.
Fourth one, Daily Mail again.

Thank you for the effort. I'm sure there are adults out there who regretted sex change.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

LOL. I linked that same site in a response to Knowledgehunter. That link contains the symptoms and the talk of "persistence" of gender dysphoria.

Yes, I know you did. That's why I wrote:

How about this one, I believe you posted it.

And I read it, which is how I know it's NOT A STUDY.

Annee posted several links I believe.

Yes, and I reposted them above as "Link 1" and "Link 2"

I read those as well. They aren't studies either. Shortly after Anne posted them you commented:

I'm trying to understand why people won't pay attention to your posts like that one. Selective blindness?

Well I'm puzzled too. Why would you think anyone who hadn't already made up their mind would find any thing in either of those articles compelling? I think it's unlikely the authors would consider them compelling if pressed on the issue.

Not so very hard for someone that hasn't already drank the kook aid to be underwhelmed by the "evidence" that's been posted here by you and your compatriots.

a reply to: imwilliam

If there are no good links in this thread then I am mistaken. I assumed that Annee already gave them as she has done many times in other threads. BTW I meant various threads on transgenderism on ATS.
I have read many peer-reviewed scientific studies on my own through google. I never bookmarked any of them. That is why I know there are many studies out there.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I have read many peer-reviewed scientific studies on my own through google. I never bookmarked any of them. That is why I know there are many studies out there.

So the best you can do is "trust me"? I see.

Well, on that note, I think I'll make my exit from this thread.

a reply to: ketsuko

All of those examples were people who transitioned after puberty and still had manly features. The study you linked said suicide risk goes up when they don't easily pass. One of the examples states that her family rejected her, so she was going back to being a man in the hopes they will accept her again. Not exactly stellar examples of people saying they no longer had gender dysphoria.

originally posted by: imwilliam
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I have read many peer-reviewed scientific studies on my own through google. I never bookmarked any of them. That is why I know there are many studies out there.

So the best you can do is "trust me"? I see.

Well, on that note, I think I'll make my exit from this thread.

Huh? I read through my posts and I see that I have made no claim that there are links to studies in this thread. Don't know why you want to trap me.
And I never said trust me.
Bye.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

It starts at a basic level. That's why no one performs sex reassignment surgery on 3 year olds. What you don't ignore is when the child continues to insist 3, 4,5, 10 years later.

a reply to: kaylaluv

That's exactly the point of my thread. Since toddlers don't understand, there's no need to force the issue on them. Let them learn and figure things out on their own without any influence and confusion. And when they reach a certain level of maturity, they will know themselves.

That's what the point of my thread was, it was never about whether or not dysphoria is real.

Again - it is more confusing and detrimental than it is helpful or beneficial, telling kindergarten kids about these issues.

They don't understand!

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

I agree. Don't force short hair and boy clothes on them when they insist on wearing long hair and dresses. Let them decide.

For the third time, age-appropriate is key.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I wasn't trans, just upset at societal oppression of women ...

Too bad she spent years thinking she was trans and didn't have her epiphany until after hormones and a botched double mastectomy.

Oh, and The Guardian so it will be acceptably "leftist" for you.

Rumors that Caitlyn Jenner may be regretting her decision.

Little sound research because there isn't good tracking of participants.

There is no conclusive evidence that sex change operations improve the lives of transsexuals, with many people remaining severely distressed and even suicidal after the operation, according to a medical review conducted exclusively for Guardian Weekend tomorrow.

The review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective.

The Guardian asked Arif to conduct the review after speaking to several people who regret changing gender or believe that the medical care they received failed to prepare them for their new lives. They explain why they are unhappy with their sex change and how they cope with the consequences in the Weekend magazine tomorrow (July 31).

...

Its review warns that the results of many gender reassignment studies are unsound because researchers lost track of more than half of the participants. For example, in a five-year study of 727 post-operative transsexuals published last year, 495 people dropped out for unknown reasons. Dr Hyde said the high drop out rate could reflect high levels of dissatisfaction or even suicide among post-operative transsexuals. He called for the causes of their deaths to be tracked to provide more evidence.

Dr Hyde said: "The bottom line is that although it's clear that some people do well with gender reassignment surgery, the available research does little to reassure about how many patients do badly and, if so, how badly."

In short, because transgenders are rare it's hard to have a large subject peer reviewed study of any real weight on the long term effects of gender re-assignment on health and its effectiveness.

Additionally, the bias is to assume that most of a transgender's psychological distress is principally due to gender dysphoria without much thought to the possible existence of comorbid psychological disorders like depression among others that should be treated in order to effect an actual relief that simply taking hormones and doing surgery won't cure and which can help explain why transitioning doesn't do a thing to stop the high rates of suicide.

a reply to: kaylaluv

If that's how they truly feel without any external influences, then I'm all for it. But don't mistaken that as dysphoria, then press the issue, and confuse them even further.

Imagine a child just going through a phase, but parents and schools kept pressing the issue and the child felt it was forced to make a premature decision?

Now throw on top social pressure.

It explains the high rate of depression and suicide.

a reply to: ketsuko

Exactly, I said somewhere in the first few pages that transgender and depression are not synonymous.