BREAKING: House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, multiple aides shot at Congressional baseball practice

a reply to: UKTruth

I would suspect that maybe he wanted to shoot the would be rescuers. Thats why he left Scalise there.

Maybe he thought about ammo and figured Scalise was dead or would die soon, so conserve ammo.

I dont think he knew he was walking into police fire.

He probably read too many combat web pages, and was trying to push the officers into the open while moving himself to a better position.

So he stood and walked into their kill zone without laying down suppressive fire first so he could move around.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

From a source in your wiki link:

Prosecutors played secret tapes Thursday of a man described as a manager at Tyson Foods arranging for the delivery of hundreds of illegal immigrants from an undercover agent posing as a smuggler.

"Hell, I put over 700 people to work," said the man on the tape, whom prosecutors identified as plant manager Robert Sanford. "I'm going to need to replace 300 or 400 people - maybe 500. I'm going to need a lot."

Tyson and three officials are charged with conspiring to smuggle illegal immigrants to work on the production lines of the company. Tyson, the country's largest meat processor, supplies about one-quarter of the nation's chickens.

Border Patrol Agent Benito Maldonado testified Thursday that he handed over eight illegal immigrants to Sanford, manager of the company's Monroe, N.C., plant, in January 1998. Court records have identified Sanford as an unindicted co-conspirator in the case.

Tyson lawyers said in Wednesday's opening statements that any hiring of illegal immigrants was done by a few plant managers and was not known to executives at Tyson headquarters in Springdale, Ark.

"No one in senior management knew," attorney Tom Green said. "No member of senior management ever violated immigration laws or encouraged" anyone else to.

*scoff*

And Tyson was acquitted. Now that is some smelly sh*t...

*Clinton-level, even*

Did I mention they are Arkansas based? heh, heh

I'll offer a possible explanation consistent with the facts as we know them. If anyone thinks its stupid feel free to try to explain why. To me all the evidence sounds like the shooter was targeting Republican congressmen. Like I said we'll have to wait for the investigation where they will piece together exactly who was shot when and where they were. Pretty much everyone recounted there was one initial shot followed by a short pause. After that, I've seen differing accounts. Some say after the pause there was a series of shots, while others have made it sound like after the pause there was yet another single shot, followed fairly quickly by a series of shots. So here's what probably happened, in my opinion:

It's been said the shooter emerged from behind the 3rd base dugout. Scalise was the closest target at this point, so naturally the shooter targeted him first, which is consistent with him just being there to kill Republican congressmen. If he was there to kill Mika, why would you shoot Scalise, alerting everyone to your presence and possibly giving your supposed target, Mika, a chance to get to cover or get away? Anyway, he takes a shot at Scalise. Keep in mind, to my knowledge, this guy was never in the military. He's never fired a gun at a person before. He's about to commit murder for the first time. He's nervous and tentative. Anyone remember your first time shooting even at a non-living target? You're tentative and nervous. That first shot relieves some tension. It's usually not that good. Sometimes even thought I've shot thousands of rounds, if I haven't shot in a while my first round next time I go to the range is a little tentative and is usually not very good.

So perhaps he's not a very good aim, or perhaps because he was nervous, he was probably aiming for the chest but hits Scalise in the hip. If there was a 2nd single shot, then the 1st round was likely a miss due to his poor aim and/or nervousness. If there was a 2nd single shot, at this point he does manage to strike Scalise in the hip. There's a pause at this point, while the shooter switches targets, perhaps to Mika. At this point he's already fired one or two shots, the nerves are calming, the adrenaline is flowing, he's zoned in. He fires a series of shots at Mika. We don't know how many. He hits Mika 4 or 5 times. Some may have missed. After this the timeline gets kinda hazy. We know the aide was running for cover in the dugout and at some point got hit in the calf. It's possible he was standing near Mika, and that's why the shooter targeted them next, because 2 people makes a bigger target.

Anyway, this is all speculation. Anyone an experienced shooter that would disagree with my characterization of how you feel the first time you draw a bead on another person?

originally posted by: face23785
Scalise was the closest target at this point, so naturally the shooter targeted him first, which is consistent with him just being there to kill Republican congressmen. If he was there to kill Mika, why would you shoot Scalise, alerting everyone to your presence and possibly giving your supposed target, Mika, a chance to get to cover or get away? Anyway, he takes a shot at Scalise.

Has it been officially confirmed that Scalise was shot first? I can't find any official statements that say that.

ETA: Not that the order really matters, IMO. Somehow, Mika was shot 4 or 5 times regardless of the order....and the 'reported' order.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I don't think it has been officially confirmed. Every account seems to be that Scalise was down early. I offered an explanation how one person can be shot more than another. Does it make sense to you? Can you acknowledge it's possible?

So Alex Jones is claiming that the shooter got the idea from a NYT article:

originally posted by: face23785
Can you acknowledge it's possible?

Just stop. I never said the official narrative is not possible and I never said that this shooting was totes definitely all about targeting Mika. I simply offered it as a possible and provided several reasons to consider it as a possible.

a reply to: ColdWisdom

Yeah I've seen that. I'm not sure I believe the shooter read that article. He seemed unprepared to encounter immediate resistance. No reports of him wearing armor, walked right out in the open initially. In my opinion, if he knew Capitol Police would be there, he'd at least have been more careful about maintaining cover/concealment. He also probably would've tried to identify the Police and take them out first. These active shooters are mostly cowards, that's why they always target gun-free zones like schools, malls, movie theaters etc. They want to shoot ducks in a barrel, they're usually not looking for a firefight.

It's possible, I just don't think the available info makes it sound very plausible.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I offered you another possible explanation. What do you think of it?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

If it helps, I will offer you an apology for how abrasive I was earlier. I'm trying to help you understand how one person can be hit more than another during a gunfight. I'm just asking if my explanation made sense to you?

a reply to: face23785

I didn't need your help or explanation. I was already well aware of the official narrative and how it's all plausible.

"What’s always evident in these situations is this: The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky)
That's somebody who figured out how to read the situation.
These shootings always happen in areas of the US in which the 2nd amendment is not enforced!

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: UKTruth

The witnesses have said in interviews he did try to shoot Scalise again, he just missed. The guy either wasn't an expert marksman or he was so nervous because he'd never been in a real firefight before that he couldn't make the shots. Again, a person lying prone on the ground is a more difficult target than they are standing. Nothing happened that can't be explained by the mere fact that real life shootings are more chaotic than they look in the movies.

He was a good enough shot to hit Matt Mika 4 or 5 times.

ETA: Was Matt standing up for all of those shots?

I think it would interesting t find out exactly the movement of Mika during the sequence of events.. did he make it to the dugout? was he on the ground? Was he somewhere else when people scattered and was unfortunate enough to run into the shooters direction as he came round the fence?...

a reply to: UKTruth


Might also be interesting to see if we can find a place that sells dead horses... have one hauled out to the middle of a field... and we could all continue this very interesting discussion out there.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: UKTruth

The witnesses have said in interviews he did try to shoot Scalise again, he just missed. The guy either wasn't an expert marksman or he was so nervous because he'd never been in a real firefight before that he couldn't make the shots. Again, a person lying prone on the ground is a more difficult target than they are standing. Nothing happened that can't be explained by the mere fact that real life shootings are more chaotic than they look in the movies.

He was a good enough shot to hit Matt Mika 4 or 5 times.

ETA: Was Matt standing up for all of those shots?

I think it would interesting t find out exactly the movement of Mika during the sequence of events.. did he make it to the dugout? was he on the ground? Was he somewhere else when people scattered and was unfortunate enough to run into the shooters direction as he came round the fence?...

I just can't find any specific sequence of events that would answer your questions and certainly nothing 'official.'

His family has only posted photos of him on FB to rally support from their friends and family. They have not written anything about it. They made the public statement I mentioned earlier though.

There really is just a noticeably scant amount of information about Mika's shooting. But he was shot so many times...why hasn't any witness mentioned what happened with that? I assume the shooter would have had to re-aim with every shot and surely that took a bit of time unless he was right on top of him. And, in that case, the fact that he was right on top of him is interesting to me, too. Especially if Scalise was, in fact, shot first. How did Mika not run from him? Why would the shooter spend so much time shooting Mika when he could have shot at other republicans? Why did he care about getting so many shots in Mika?

Other questions: I read that MedStar Washington Hospital is the better trauma hospital (that's where Scalise was sent), but Mika was taken to George Washington University Hospital, why? (They are a Level 1 Trauma center though.) Also, was Mika airlifted like the Capitol Police officer that only had a leg wound?

Looking at Tyson Foods over the last day or so, they are definitely not above scrutiny...especially when it comes to lobbying.

And, if there is an unsavory lobbying/government issue at play, here. Then I am not sure I can take the witness statements of those working for Congress at face value.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: UKTruth


Might also be interesting to see if we can find a place that sells dead horses... have one hauled out to the middle of a field... and we could all continue this very interesting discussion out there.

What? How is this a dead horse? It's still unfolding!

Whatever!

a reply to: MotherMayEye

We need some animators to come in and animate it all out. Maybe create a CGI sequence of events. And by the way, have all the bullets been found? And was it rat-tat-tat-tat-ratta-tat-tat-- or did it go more like tat-tat-pause-tatta tat tat?

So many unanswered questions on the ratta tat tat sequence.

My apologies, maybe I'm missing the point of all this?

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

My apologies, maybe I'm missing the point of all this?

You are.

I can't hold your hand. If you are content with the explanation the shooter was a whack job leftwinger who targeted Congressional republicans, go with that.

I find it curious that you are content with that, though, knowing you are a leftie. But, then again, you did call for the entire white house to be hung for treason.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: MotherMayEye

We need some animators to come in and animate it all out. Maybe create a CGI sequence of events. And by the way, have all the bullets been found? And was it rat-tat-tat-tat-ratta-tat-tat-- or did it go more like tat-tat-pause-tatta tat tat?

So many unanswered questions on the ratta tat tat sequence.

My apologies, maybe I'm missing the point of all this?

As if they are going to find all the bullets. Why do we need a recreation? A lefty snapped like more and more will do, they cannot tolerate when they don't get their way. It's time that they grew up. They are like the spoiled brats in the grocery stores throwing a tantrum to get their candy. Instead of a slap from their parents they get a reward for their tantrum and then grow up to be lefties. It's all in the up bringing.

a reply to: chortled

Welcome to ATS. You got here just in time to defend the official narrative!