BREAKING: House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, multiple aides shot at Congressional baseball practice

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: D8Tee


A .223 remington with expanding bullets does MASSIVE damage to flesh.

Screw .223 expanded...

You need it more in the slower rounds such as handguns that go with a larger slower HP round for mass damage. .223 HP would have more shock, but then can also not penetrate a vest either such as FMJ would. Also a FMJ does more damage as it tumbles throughout the body compared to HP that would stop rather quickly.

A FMJ does NOT do more damage than an expanding point bullet, stop pretending you know anything about ballistics.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: IAMTAT

Aside from the shooting spree, this guy could've been any number of leftists I know personally.

Seriously? What kind of leftists do you hang out with? Republicans have been involved in mass shootings before but I don't think of all Republicans that way.

The shooter was a Sanders supporter, but Bernie strongly condemned his actions.

Seriously.
The crap on his Facebook page is practically identical to what's on some leftist's FB pages I know personally.

I read his FB, I would have unfollowed or defriended him mid-2014.

I can't stand people like that.

In one particular case, it's a family member. 'THEY' have been 'unfriended' a couple of times since the election...but that, in and of itself, opens up a big can o' worms...with familial repercussions.

I hate FB.

Get rid of it. I got rid of mine years ago. I never miss it.

I use mine to comment at a couple of blogsites where I need the plug-in and that's about as far as my facebook use goes these days.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: scraedtosleep

A hollow point 223 round will blow a hole the size of a softball into a coyote if the bullet hits a bone and fragments. I hope he makes it, hopefully he got to the trauma center in time. Getting hit with a high velocity expanding point rifle round is a lot different than getting hit with a handgun round.

Another member posted that CNN said it was an AK variant. That would mean it would most likely be a 7.62 round.

Any confirmation on the weapon used?

There are at least as many AK variants chambered for 5.45x39 as there are 7.62x39, there are even some chambered in the 5.56x45 Nato - but realistically, your average person might see wood furniture and think AK.

That is true. It has been my experience that when the average firearm purchaser decides to go for a 223/556 chambered weapon, they go for the AR. But of course we don't know where and how he got this firearm. It is quite possible he got his hands on an AK chambered for 223/556.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
After the most nasty campaign ever with insanely toxic levels of vilifying and chants for locking up their opponent, hopefully now we can all find unity and togetherness...

Youre pinning this on Trump... How neat and tidy your aparment must be. No mirrors anywhere inside there either.

And nope Hillary the mass murdering career criminal all time level hypocrite shouldnt be locked up, either.

Not at all, I just think it's silly how completely detached people are.

A d-bag enters a room, insults everyone in the room, takes over, continues insults-- then when someone gets hurt calls for unity.

Yay for unity.

What's creepy is this guy was a home inspector. Going into people's houses. And he was a loon...

Lots of real estate companies on his FB.

originally posted by: D8Tee

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: D8Tee


A .223 remington with expanding bullets does MASSIVE damage to flesh.

Screw .223 expanded...

You need it more in the slower rounds such as handguns that go with a larger slower HP round for mass damage. .223 HP would have more shock, but then can also not penetrate a vest either such as FMJ would. Also a FMJ does more damage as it tumbles throughout the body compared to HP that would stop rather quickly.

A FMJ does NOT do more damage than an expanding point bullet, stop pretending you know anything about ballistics.

I wanted to address this as well but I got caught up with other things. There's a reason why militaries use FMJ. It's considered more humane and leads to less deaths. It tends to pass right through you, and while that can lead to more external bleeding obviously due to 2 wounds (entry and exit) it often does less internal damage. Of course this depends on where you get hit, the angle of entry and what exactly it hits.

As a general rule, rifle bullets tend to just # you up anyway, unless it's something small like .22. Although that can still kill you.

originally posted by: D8Tee

A FMJ does NOT do more damage than an expanding point bullet, stop pretending you know anything about ballistics.

Ok skipper...lol You keep your expanding point

This could have been the plot for the film "The Fan 2", sequel to the robert deniro flick where the crazed baseball fan stalks the baseball player.

In the opening segment of the film have the tv doing a montage showing all msm hollywierd vitriol, including that clip of robert deniro saying he'd like ti punch Trump in the face.

Im on my phone or Id embed some media clips ratchneer.

a reply to: face23785

I didn't mean they were being purposefully inaccurate. Just ignorant, most of the time. And I for one can wait for details like what gun was used, there really is no reason whatsoever for them to speculate about that. If they don't know what kind of rifle was used, just say it was a rifle or a long gun and leave it at that until someone can provide accurate info. Why is that so much to ask?

We can all be ignorant about certain things. The reporters are no more or less flawed.

They want to get the info out to the public fast because that is what we want from them and in doing so make mistakes.

That is one of the reasons I like to wait to speculate too much or come to firm conclusion until the dust has settled and the info is more accurate.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: D8Tee

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: D8Tee


A .223 remington with expanding bullets does MASSIVE damage to flesh.

Screw .223 expanded...

You need it more in the slower rounds such as handguns that go with a larger slower HP round for mass damage. .223 HP would have more shock, but then can also not penetrate a vest either such as FMJ would. Also a FMJ does more damage as it tumbles throughout the body compared to HP that would stop rather quickly.

A FMJ does NOT do more damage than an expanding point bullet, stop pretending you know anything about ballistics.

I wanted to address this as well but I got caught up with other things. There's a reason why militaries use FMJ. It's considered more humane and leads to less deaths. It tends to pass right through you, and while that can lead to more external bleeding obviously due to 2 wounds (entry and exit) it often does less internal damage. Of course this depends on where you get hit, the angle of entry and what exactly it hits.

As a general rule, rifle bullets tend to just # you up anyway, unless it's something small like .22. Although that can still kill you.

22's can be absolutely viscous at close range, but in a rifle they are considered less lethal. I believe that is one reason the IDF began to use them for sniping purposes.

I think we are missing the obvious had this been a Trumpkin shooting democrats we would hear how Trump caused hate. We have all ready seen the protests against Trump hate. But here we have someone on the left shoot democrats and the double standard kicks in. Yes the left hate speech caused this as much as it would have been the other way around.

I warned even my friends this would happen eventually by rhe way voted democrat ny whole life you can't paint someone as evil without someone taking up the fight. The Democrats don't even bother to tell me positions on things anymore just how I should hate trump.

It's all Trump. I know that's not fair. I know we all want it to be equal. But it was Trump who used hate to win an election. And now this rising tide of hate is ALL his. Whether it comes from his side or the other side. Trump's lack of leadership, his lack of wisdom, and his penchant for conflict DID this.

Trump should own this. He should grow from it. But he won't. Because he's not a leader.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: face23785

I didn't mean they were being purposefully inaccurate. Just ignorant, most of the time. And I for one can wait for details like what gun was used, there really is no reason whatsoever for them to speculate about that. If they don't know what kind of rifle was used, just say it was a rifle or a long gun and leave it at that until someone can provide accurate info. Why is that so much to ask?

We can all be ignorant about certain things. The reporters are no more or less flawed.

They want to get the info out to the public fast because that is what we want from them and in doing so make mistakes.

That is one of the reasons I like to wait to speculate to much or come to firm conclusion until the dust has settled and the info is more accurate.

I have to respectfully disagree. I'm not asking them to be superhuman, just to avoid speculation when they're not sure about something. Making a mistake is one thing, that's human. Making a conscious decision to put info out that may or may not be accurate, and you know it may not be accurate, that's not a mistake. That's bad journalism.

I get the emphasis on speed, but I think it's over-emphasized. If you ask any particular person why they watch a particular network, most people I know don't base this off of who is fastest to report. Most of the folks I know value accuracy over speed, and they won't switch networks just because one got the caliber out there first, especially if it turns out to be wrong.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: dragonridr
I think we are missing the obvious had this been a Trumpkin shooting democrats we would hear how Trump caused hate. We have all ready seen the protests against Trump hate. But here we have someone on the left shoot democrats and the double standard kicks in. Yes the left hate speech caused this as much as it would have been the other way around.

I warned even my friends this would happen eventually by rhe way voted democrat ny whole life you can't paint someone as evil without someone taking up the fight. The Democrats don't even bother to tell me positions on things anymore just how I should hate trump.

It's all Trump. I know that's not fair. I know we all want it to be equal. But the Trump used hate to win an election. And now this rise tide of hate is ALL his. Whether it comes from his side or the other side. Trump lack of leadership, his lack of wisdom, and his penchant for conflict DID this.

Own it.

Actually even the liberal networks have admitted Clinton's campaign was mostly negative and had no message. There's been studies about whose ads were more negative (they were both awful). You might wanna get out a little.

originally posted by: D8Tee

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: D8Tee


A .223 remington with expanding bullets does MASSIVE damage to flesh.

Screw .223 expanded...

You need it more in the slower rounds such as handguns that go with a larger slower HP round for mass damage. .223 HP would have more shock, but then can also not penetrate a vest either such as FMJ would. Also a FMJ does more damage as it tumbles throughout the body compared to HP that would stop rather quickly.

A FMJ does NOT do more damage than an expanding point bullet, stop pretending you know anything about ballistics.

The state in which I reside will not allow hunting big game with nonexpanding bullets. They want clean kills, so they require expanding bullets, which do more damage to the game.
Playing around with center of gravity in a FMJ bullet will affect its terminal ballistics.... but if a bullet is unstable enough to tumble in a body, it doesn't help accuracy.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
It's all Trump. I know that's not fair. I know we all want it to be equal. But it was Trump who used hate to win an election. And now this rising tide of hate is ALL his. Whether it comes from his side or the other side. Trump's lack of leadership, his lack of wisdom, and his penchant for conflict DID this.

Trump should own this. He should grow from it. But he won't. Because he's not a leader.

And here we have it.

Scalise deserved to be shot because people didn't vote for Hillary.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
It's all Trump. I know that's not fair. I know we all want it to be equal. But it was Trump who used hate to win an election. And now this rising tide of hate is ALL his. Whether it comes from his side or the other side. Trump's lack of leadership, his lack of wisdom, and his penchant for conflict DID this.

Trump should own this. He should grow from it. But he won't. Because he's not a leader.

And here we have it.

Scalise deserved to be shot because people didn't vote for Hillary.

And here we have it. The giant leap of logic. Who said anyone deserved to be shot? Try again.

originally posted by: face23785

I wanted to address this as well but I got caught up with other things. There's a reason why militaries use FMJ. It's considered more humane and leads to less deaths. It tends to pass right through you, and while that can lead to more external bleeding obviously due to 2 wounds (entry and exit) it often does less internal damage. Of course this depends on where you get hit, the angle of entry and what exactly it hits.

As a general rule, rifle bullets tend to just # you up anyway, unless it's something small like .22. Although that can still kill you.

The problem is the entry and exit wounds do not line up normally. That creates a lot more internal damage far from the initial entrance as it ping pongs around you inside. .223 is still very small and relies most on velocity, and the weird thing with expanding rounds is there is a Goldilocks range for proper expansion, so too close or too far and the bullet is either too fast or slow for proper expansion.

Finally as I said expanding round dissipate their energy very quickly and they may not penetrate vests where non-expanding rounds will go though quite easily. As you said a rifle round is still a rifle round and I just want to ensure I get penetration.

If Congress would go back to doing things for America and it citizens instead partisan fighting, being bought by large corporations, attacking other countries, bribing other leaders and arming terrorists, people would see them in a better light.

But since they probably won't, I guess arming themselves is a logical step.

I think many Americans feel abandoned by their leaders.