A question for the Pro-Life crowd.

Abortions should be illegal after a certain time in the pregnancy - which should be driven by the latest understanding of when consciousness is achieved or pain can be felt.

Education on birth control should be widely communicated.

Govt should never pay a single penny towards abortions.

If you look at the research the so called pro-choice group are just a minority of extremists and the so called pro-life group are the same. - in fact in the Pew research of opinions taken from 1995-2016 only 38% in TOTAL are in either the "abortion legal in all cases" or "abortion illegal in all cases" groups.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Templeton

Excuse my ignorance, but how relevant is this problem, on a percentage basis ?

I looked statistics up some months ago and it seemed it was very low...
this site, for instance, conveys that as well.

I believe in capital punishment for certain rape cases, though, and believe it should definitely be cracked down on in any reasonable way.

My problem is, sometimes the discussion does not seem reasonable. Two people that willingly become drunk, both having consensual sex with each other- I personally don't believe either one can claim rape at a later time, due to regret, for instance.

But that does make the water muddy.

Aggravated, violent, forced rape should end in capital punishment, though.

I dont know, i doubt its much of a problem at all really. But it is a classic pro-choice argument. You are right about the muddy water aspect. I think easier access to good contraceptives and a little social engineering could create a society where the norm is that everyone is unable to conceive by default, and it takes action to turn it off.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

However, I propose a solution, what about expanding sex ed and put mandatory lessons on the issue of abortion? Like teach people on the ethics, psychological, physical and emotional fallout of abortions, personal experiences of people who experienced abortions and let people decide. Ultimately though, the teacher will tell the students that the choice is theirs.

shall the teachers also teach people the possible negative consequences of carrying a pregnancy full term also? ya know, the wear and tear on the women's body, the hit that a mother takes on her income potential, the possibility of postpartum depression, ect?
and, at the end of the course, after we teach the kids about the evils of abortion along with the evils of childbirth, after we scare the heck out of them, and we tell them there's really no reason to fear....
just say no to sex!!!!

I am pro life and also pro choice and although I may disagree with women who decides to end a pregnancy, it is their choice and no one should decide what another person can do with their life.

With that said, I find most pro lifers to be hypocrites. They want to decide for someone else what they can with their lives but are very adamant about being told what they can do with theirs. They also cry about the unborn child who is unwanted and then they turn around cry about their tax dollars to going to feeding and caring for this unwanted child claiming people should make better choices and they should not be held responsible for other peoples bad choices.

This could all be avoided if they were OK with the government spending money on programs to deal with sex education and these programs should be started early, so repercussions are instilled in them at an early age.

Men should never have a say in what a woman can do with their bodies and vice versa.

Here's what I think:

#1 - The government shouldn't have a say.
#2 - Mommy should be responsible.
#3 - Daddy should be responsible.

Unfortunately, because of numbers 2 and 3, nobody gets to enjoy number 1.

Here's what I think: You want to have an abortion? Shoot yourself in the head with a .357 magnum. That'll damn sure take care of the problem that's affecting me ... and you're not going to have a baby if you've done it the right way.

a reply to: deadlyhope

As a constitutional conservative, the issue of abortion and the availability thereof is simple for me.

Personally, I wish the practice did not exist, but it does, and sometimes is even necessary for medical reasons. Further, I am a man and it’s none of my goddamn business what a woman decides to do in this regard.

Admittedly, the subject is way down the list of things I find of immediate importance, and as a political issue, it’s always toxic to the Right, so I usually avoid it like a cowboy gay bar…

Philosophically, I do not think abortion is “murder”. I don’t know when “life” begins, but somewhere down the road science will figure that one out definitively. Until then, I am quite comfortable leaving that question up to a woman and her doctor.

From a policy standpoint, the Constitution neither grants nor restricts one’s “right” to obtain an abortion. That means the regulation of that practice is 100% left up to the states per the 10th Amendment. Also, the Constitution does not grant any rights to the unborn.

That’s why, from a constitutional standpoint, Roe v. Wade is not my favorite SCOTUS ruling… The matter should have been left up to the individual states.

I find the issue of abortion surrounded by hypocrites on both sides. Militant “abortion-is-murder” types never call the cops to stop a “murder” or do anything else about it – and God forbid they offer to adopt the mostly minority children that would result from these unwanted pregnancies.

As for the enthusiastic supporters of abortion on the Left – they’re aborting millions of future liberal voters for the most part. Most conservatives don’t have abortions. The demographics of abortion are almost a mirror image of the Democrat electorate in this country.

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: Templeton
I believe that life starts at conception, and taking a life is murder. Sometimes terminating a life born or not is the appropriate choice, but usually it's not. So no, I would not support easier access to abortions. I would rather we make contraceptive tools more accessible.

While we're at it, men can stop raping women and getting them pregnant, too.

Personal responsibility just doesn't exist in your vocabulary does it?

I am all for a women who is raped choosing to have an abortion, and I think many who would consider themselves prolife would grant that victim that right!

Nevertheless you had nothing so why should I be surprised......

a reply to: RomeByFire


Answer me this please. Why are most liberals Pro abortion but anti death penalty? Why is a murderers life more valuable than an unborn child.

a reply to: norhoc

why is a women's life and well being worth less than that of the unborn child she is carrying?

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: RomeByFire


Answer me this please. Why are most liberals Pro abortion but anti death penalty? Why is a murderers life more valuable than an unborn child.

Go ask "most liberals," (whatever that means) because I'm not a liberal and I certainly don't make up the "most," of anything.

Lol. Anyway, what?

Who said anything about a murderer being more valuable than an unborn child (except for yourself)?

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: Templeton
I believe that life starts at conception, and taking a life is murder. Sometimes terminating a life born or not is the appropriate choice, but usually it's not. So no, I would not support easier access to abortions. I would rather we make contraceptive tools more accessible.

While we're at it, men can stop raping women and getting them pregnant, too.

Personal responsibility just doesn't exist in your vocabulary does it?

I am all for a women who is raped choosing to have an abortion, and I think many who would consider themselves prolife would grant that victim that right!

Nevertheless you had nothing so why should I be surprised......

Oh look, more personal insults.

Sunday must be a slow day over at Breitbart and the likes.

a reply to: RomeByFire


So no answer to my question.. Noted

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: norhoc

why is a women's life and well being worth less than that of the unborn child she is carrying?

Ummm...perhaps because the unborn child wasn't the one who chose not to exercise the requisite amount of responsibility when it came to practicing the act of procreation...and lets all face it...when a man and woman have sex...they're practicing procreation...

I know...I know...it's fun for the full eight seconds...but then the high fades and now it's cleanup time...some are just soulless enough to think cleanup time is aborting a perfectly viable child because of convenience...

It's not rocket science...there are drugs that provide a better high and there's deep meditation and prayer that provide longer lasting and better highs...so why not be a responsible little human and think beyond your own shortsightedness...

Isn't this debate thing fun...


YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

heck the "women" doesn't even have to be a women, it could be a nine year old victim of rape impregnated with twins and some would exalt the lives of those twin fetus' above that of the girl, even when there's a bunch of doctors and nurses saying that carrying those twins to term could kill the nine year old girl!!!

of course, no man have ever died from child birth have they?? and it seems that many men think that since they don't have to worry about pregnancy, their insurance shouldn't have to include things like birth control or maternity care, should it??

it seems like when it comes to sex, "responsibility" is a burden that is heaped onto the women with very little said about the men.

but, I agree, especially in the current climate....
unless you really want to have a child.....
IT'S BETTER TO JUST NOT HAVE THE SEX..
matter of fact, I bet ya that if the mass of women in one voice spoke up and just said no, the climate would change very quickly!!!

a reply to: deadlyhope

Abortion is going to happen, whether by legal or illegal methods. As long as there are children in orphanages, children starving, children dying from war, famine, disease and abuse...I believe that legal abortion should remain an option. When the list of uncared for, unwanted, and abused children is down to 0, then I think we can open the debate for "the higher moral ground."

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: YouSir

heck the "women" doesn't even have to be a women, it could be a nine year old victim of rape impregnated with twins and some would exalt the lives of those twin fetus' above that of the girl, even when there's a bunch of doctors and nurses saying that carrying those twins to term could kill the nine year old girl!!!

of course, no man have ever died from child birth have they?? and it seems that many men think that since they don't have to worry about pregnancy, their insurance shouldn't have to include things like birth control or maternity care, should it??

it seems like when it comes to sex, "responsibility" is a burden that is heaped onto the women with very little said about the men.

but, I agree, especially in the current climate....
unless you really want to have a child.....
IT'S BETTER TO JUST NOT HAVE THE SEX..
matter of fact, I bet ya that if the mass of women in one voice spoke up and just said no, the climate would change very quickly!!!

Ummm...There's something there in the human female that fascinates me...
There's something in me that responds...that aches...that twists my insides out...

I too love to love women...I do...but part of that fascination for me is the absolute wonder that you...with help from a partner...can cause life to grow...

That for me is possibly the most beautiful thing...far greater than that perfect sunset...far greater than almost anything I can think of...

This is how I see each and every one of you and it's almost a holy thought to think that this is what you can do...
Sure...I can write lines of poetry...I can shape wood and other materials into other forms...I too can create...but you can create life...there is no competing with that...

It's because of a deep respect...a deep amazement for what is too often taken for granted...I will never despise one that ushers forth new creation...how could I...

I worship each and every one of you...

It breaks the heart to be part of a world where such wonder is extinguished in such a nonchalant fashion...





YouSir

a reply to: deadlyhope

First, realize that in my personal life I am pro-life, and married a counterpart the believes the same. Socially, I am pro-choice, or rather don't believe the government has a right to control a persons personal and medical decisions.

OP, you can't be both pro-choice and pro-life. These are not "personal" stances, per say, they're social stances. What you're saying is that you and your spouse, under certain dire circumstances, would choose life, rather than an abortion. But, you agree that you should have that right, because you don't agree that the government has a right to control personal medical decisions. The Pro-Life movement wants to take that choice away. They believe that government should make that choice for you and your wife.

You are pro-choice. You just happen to choose life.

a reply to: YouSir

if it was viewed as that holy by most people, there would be a lot less unwanted pregnancies because people would treat sexual relations as just as holy, something to take part in only when the life that might be produced is wanted. considering how the world not only is like today, but also how it was as far back as I can remember I have to say, most don't see that holiness...

Ima capitalist..... If most Americans didnt support abortion...... they wouldnt make enough money to keep the clinic open. Instead we see clinics all over the place, doctors and nurses making a fortune..... called people voting with their dollars.

American's are too stupid to have Children.

This is only the main reason taking abortion away would be a bad start.

Sex 18? Fine. Sure. Birth needs to be pushed to 21. It should be against-the-law to get Pregnant without being ready to raise a child.

Other than that, there is the obvious unanswered dilemma of what the hell are we going to do with the born children that were previously going to be aborted?

There were 509 abortions today to this minute, and while this number will go over those with dyscalculia and the illiterate, let me try to illustrate my point verbally, this is an insane population growth of at least 30% a day, with likely no capable parents- children having children. What exactly is the plan for these new people with no appreciable future?

Try to give the smallest inkling of #s about the children in the discussion and maybe people will believe you. Pro-life makes sense if there is a reason for it, a plan for it, no one gives a # about how you personally feel and is tallying your decision. No one. That's why these conversations are pointless. There have been at least 60 million US abortions since 1970, are you people #ing listening? That's 20% of our current population, can you comprehend the issues that come with that many more people? Hellllllllo?

[Silence falls on ears, deaf since before 2000]