Went to a local mosque and this is what I overheard being taught to young Muslims

Lip service within ear shot.

Wait until they teach what the definition of an innocent is.

How are people so easily fooled?

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: heavymental
a reply to: 23432

islam is exactly the problem. other religions may push may encraoch may be heavyhanded at some point in their history . Only islam mandates that the end goal is total submission of the entire world. islam is barely about religion. It is a political system that uses religion as the impetus to fire up the believers. The political advantage is the real objective.
So even if religion is taken away islam is the most dangerous evil force politically the earth has ever known

While I agree that Islam is a greater problem than say, christianity...I disagree with the sentiment.
No quarter should be given to primitive beliefs, allowing this stuff to exist without scrutiny and criticism is what has perpetuated it for centuries.

It all need to end, we need to slowly work it out of existence, all of it. I ain't never done a shred of good and never will, believing in god is about as productive and intelligent as believing in leprechauns.

This is the kind of rhetoric I mean...religious people aren't entitled to respect, quite the contrary. We should start now, teaching kids in schools...there are some people who believe in a fictional being called god, it makes them crazy. You should pity them...and don't let them control you by putting hte fear of god in you.

Because there is no need to fear that which doesn't exist.

ETA - to quote Sam Harris: we need to be able to criticise bad ideas, Islam is the motherload of bad ideas!

Agreed...but why stop at Islam, why pretend religion is a good idea in any capacity when it clearly isn't. It makes people mentally ill, pious, sanctamonious, self-righteous, nasty, violent, intolerant.

It's a virus that needs to be eradicated.

Godless Mao and Godless Stalin alone has millions of people not so long ago.

Getting rid of religion only creates worst monsters .

You defend no religion society while not mentioning the 10's of millions of innocent civilians the USSR & Chinese Communist Party has killed ?

I don't think you have a solution.

You think that no religion is synonymous with communism? That they are mutually inclusive?

Nobody is saying that the government should ban religious practises, or that religious people should be actively persecuted. You go from one extreme to the other.

It's the inherent idea that we must be respectful and tolerant of this stupidity that's the problem. Maybe if we didn't pander to them constantly...why should I respect someone's right to believe something that is clearly absurd and has no basis in reality?

Why should we continue to allow our children to be indoctrinated with this junk?

Because...communism? Please!

I'd be defending the position os Mao and Stalin if I were preaching communism, I'm not...being against religion and being communist are two totally different things.

Communists were against religion too and they built societies where 10's of millions of innocent people got killed.

There is no known model of functioning society which is based on banning religion ; so what you are asking is Utopic.

And there is the real problem , the elephant in the room , the real culprit if you like :

To reiterate, nobody said anything about banning religion...are you seriously trying to imply that being against religion means you're inherently communist?

Do you realise how dumb that sounds? That's like saying we should stop treating cancer because the drugs can produce side effects in some people.

Stop worrying about that cancer that you know is dangerous because the treatment *might* make you ill. You're basically aligning myself and those like me with two monsters because we share one particular view...was the lack of religous practice directly to blame for the deaths?

The funny thing is, religion was still practised in secret under those communist regimes. How do you explain that?

Also, as I said previously, Stalin and Mao existed in spite of religion, it wasn't a lack of religion that produced those people, was it? Were they born into and raised in a godless society free from religios practises? No...no, they weren't, they were very much a product of such environments.

I could easily argue that if they'd been born into a world free of religion that they'd have gone on to live very meaningful and productive lives, your argument is ridiculous at best, sorry.

Agreed...but why stop at Islam, why pretend religion is a good idea in any capacity when it clearly isn't. It makes people mentally ill, pious, sanctamonious, self-righteous, nasty, violent, intolerant.

It's a virus that needs to be eradicated.

have I misunderstood you ?

It would appear so, yes. You claimed I wanted to ban religion when I never said any such thing.

People are free to be religious, what I'm questioning is this implied notion that we must respect their beliefs when we mustn't.

I'm all for people believing what they want, I'm also all for people like me treating people who harbour insane, archaic views like lepers and scum, which is what they are.

I'm not trying to stop people from believing anything, I just want to ridicule them and make them feel like they have something wrong with them, which they do. The idea isn't to ban or stop them believing in god but to make them feel like there's something wrong with it.

I thought I made that clear, apparently not. You see the way anti-trans folk talk about transexuals? That's how I want to treat religious people...tell them they're mentally ill...which they are.

Not a ban...is that clear enough for you?

a reply to: 23432

To be fair though, in early celtic and pictish societies, women were often the leaders, and men and women were equal, since the arrival of the romans that changed a bit, but I am glad that we have moved back to a society where women are equal to men, so from my point of view it's not about what the MSM tells me, I gave up on that as well, it's what I have seen with my own eyes over the years, that colours my judgment and I have seen some extremely arrogant muslim men who treat women appallingly, likewise I have seen non muslim men treating women appallingly, but they are shunned from society, not revered as in wahabbism, where it is most certainly a man's world

originally posted by: destination now
a reply to: 23432

To be fair though, in early celtic and pictish societies, women were often the leaders, and men and women were equal, since the arrival of the romans that changed a bit, but I am glad that we have moved back to a society where women are equal to men, so from my point of view it's not about what the MSM tells me, I gave up on that as well, it's what I have seen with my own eyes over the years, that colours my judgment and I have seen some extremely arrogant muslim men who treat women appallingly, likewise I have seen non muslim men treating women appallingly, but they are shunned from society, not revered as in wahabbism, where it is most certainly a man's world

Until they detonate.

23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

Reds and deads only know strife. Head wants bed for the rest of its life. Spirit has what brains do not; do not fear society's lot.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

Reds and deads only know strife. Head wants bed for the rest of its life. Spirit has what brains do not; do not fear society's lot.

Uh, yeah.

That's really interesting, thanks for that.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

Reds and deads only know strife. Head wants bed for the rest of its life. Spirit has what brains do not; do not fear society's lot.

Uh, yeah.

That's really interesting, thanks for that.

Slow face palm.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

Reds and deads only know strife. Head wants bed for the rest of its life. Spirit has what brains do not; do not fear society's lot.

Uh, yeah.

That's really interesting, thanks for that.

Slow face palm.

What did you expect me to say in response to that...what I can only describe as utter nonsense?

Let me guess...you thought it was clever and thought provoking, right?

I thought it wasn't very constructive and somewhat pretentious. But I'm rude like that.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

Reds and deads only know strife. Head wants bed for the rest of its life. Spirit has what brains do not; do not fear society's lot.

Uh, yeah.

That's really interesting, thanks for that.

Slow face palm.

What did you expect me to say in response to that...what I can only describe as utter nonsense?

I brought a gun to a knife fight. My mistake.

You brought a pea-shooter assuming it was a gun.

Adults are talking, go write poetry.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
You brought a pea-shooter assuming it was a gun.

Adults are talking, go write poetry.

Pea-shooter can still leave a mark.

Why don't you try deciphering the meaning instead of getting bent out of shape. You youngins might learn something.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
You brought a pea-shooter assuming it was a gun.

Adults are talking, go write poetry.

Pea-shooter can still leave a mark.

Why don't you try deciphering the meaning instead of getting bent out of shape. You youngins might learn something.

I don't think you quite understand, but from reading your posts I get the impression that you've a rather high opinion of yourself.

We get it.

Can you not just make a point or statement without trying to be a smartass? You've been going at it through most of this thread, it's getting tiresome.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
You brought a pea-shooter assuming it was a gun.

Adults are talking, go write poetry.

Pea-shooter can still leave a mark.

Why don't you try deciphering the meaning instead of getting bent out of shape. You youngins might learn something.

I don't think you quite understand, but from reading your posts I get the impression that you've a rather high opinion of yourself.

We get it.

Can you not just make a point or statement without trying to be a smartass? You've been going at it through most of this thread, it's getting tiresome.

Tired so easily?

Exercise your brain. Think. That's the best deterrent to bad behavior.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
You brought a pea-shooter assuming it was a gun.

Adults are talking, go write poetry.

Pea-shooter can still leave a mark.

Why don't you try deciphering the meaning instead of getting bent out of shape. You youngins might learn something.

I don't think you quite understand, but from reading your posts I get the impression that you've a rather high opinion of yourself.

We get it.

Can you not just make a point or statement without trying to be a smartass? You've been going at it through most of this thread, it's getting tiresome.

Tired so easily?

Exercise your brain. Think. That's the best deterrent to bad behavior.

Nice one, thanks mate.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

I am simply stating a historical fact ; absence of religion is blamed for low morality of ex-Communist Eastern European Governments and the people who do the blame are Christian Europeans . I merely echoed their sentiments .

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Oxygen , I would say .

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

I think this is the " crunch " of your argument : Religion is disgusting is your stand while mine is that religion has a purpose which billions of people live their lives by .
I simply accept Human Nature for what it is while you want to ridicule anyone who believes in a higher power i.e God .

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

I am simply put defending the fact that Islam means Peace and Peace = no bloodshed . On a separate note not unrelated ; I am also defending the rights of individuals to believe or not believe in anything they want ; as it is the suggestion from Islam i.e No Compulsion in Religion .
You seem to thing that religion is the cause of bloodshed and I am not entirely convinced by this line of reasoning .

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

Mao and Stalin were atheists so was Pol Pot ; in the last 75 years this trio has killed millions of innocent human beings . Murder is not really caused by religion or absent of religion imho .

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Communists rejected religion of all sorts and they were mostly atheist as the party line required yet Gulags were also a reality under Communists . History teaches us that with or without religion the inhumanity of humanity is not effected .

Communism and Atheism are both recent developments in Human history ; naturally evolved Human Beings display religious tendencies but they never display atheistic or communist tendencies as far as I know .

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

There is no " Modern World " ; that's a fabulous fable . There is only the " World " .
For example in City where I live it was common to treat mental patients with music while in Europe same people were burnt on stake for being Witches . Both treatments had religion as their inspiration.
I am not justifiying it because I am not under an illusion of Human Nature . I am simply stating facts while you are stating desires .

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Atheists have murdered millions of people all over the World when they had the power and you are saying that they didn't do it for Athestic reasons .

Are you an Atheist ?
If so , it bothers me none but you should not act as if Atheists never genocided people because it is not true .

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

My point is that religions have purpose and it is not shedding blood . Atheism and Communism are not well established schools of thought(s) ; they are rather new and judging by last Century they are both failure in their claims to bring peace and prosperity to Humanity .

originally posted by: destination now
a reply to: 23432

To be fair though, in early celtic and pictish societies, women were often the leaders, and men and women were equal, since the arrival of the romans that changed a bit, but I am glad that we have moved back to a society where women are equal to men, so from my point of view it's not about what the MSM tells me, I gave up on that as well, it's what I have seen with my own eyes over the years, that colours my judgment and I have seen some extremely arrogant muslim men who treat women appallingly, likewise I have seen non muslim men treating women appallingly, but they are shunned from society, not revered as in wahabbism, where it is most certainly a man's world

I think the root of your perpective is the fact that you associate ALL muslims with SOME Pakistani Muslims behaviour towards some Women .

This is akin to me observing Papau New Ginea Christians practising cannibalism as per their traditions , customs and concluding that ALL Christians must be the same , obviously .

And Bible must be responsible for them consuming human flesh .




Muslims are just people , nothing more nothing less .

Here is these particular muslims having a dance in a wedding party .

Prelude to A Circassian Circle :

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
23432

Now that I've made my position clearer...can you explain to my why an absence of religion will inherently result in millions of dead people?

I am simply stating a historical fact ; absence of religion is blamed for low morality of ex-Communist Eastern European Governments and the people who do the blame are Christian Europeans . I merely echoed their sentiments .

Is religion what's keeping us alive?

Oxygen , I would say .

Presumably you don't want people to die...or you wouldn't try to use possible death to justify the perpetuation of something as disgusting as religion.

I think this is the " crunch " of your argument : Religion is disgusting is your stand while mine is that religion has a purpose which billions of people live their lives by .
I simply accept Human Nature for what it is while you want to ridicule anyone who believes in a higher power i.e God .

But..but...people die and have died, for centuries, as a direct result of religion. They kill each other because of it, still...to this very day. So why is it that you are afraid of an absence of religion causing death..because communism, yet you're defending religions which has also resulted in much bloodshed?

I am simply put defending the fact that Islam means Peace and Peace = no bloodshed . On a separate note not unrelated ; I am also defending the rights of individuals to believe or not believe in anything they want ; as it is the suggestion from Islam i.e No Compulsion in Religion .
You seem to thing that religion is the cause of bloodshed and I am not entirely convinced by this line of reasoning .

Doesn't make much sense, does it? If lack of religion caused people to murder each other, why are there so many atheists out there who are still, as of yet, to murder anyone?

Mao and Stalin were atheists so was Pol Pot ; in the last 75 years this trio has killed millions of innocent human beings . Murder is not really caused by religion or absent of religion imho .

It wasn't an absence of religion that caused the commies to kill, was it? It was a combination of things...communism is quite a broad ideology of which religion, or lack of, plays a small part.

Communists rejected religion of all sorts and they were mostly atheist as the party line required yet Gulags were also a reality under Communists . History teaches us that with or without religion the inhumanity of humanity is not effected .

Communism and Atheism are both recent developments in Human history ; naturally evolved Human Beings display religious tendencies but they never display atheistic or communist tendencies as far as I know .

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, finding excuses for something that is, without a doubt, problematic. Looking for anything you can to try and justify it. There is no justification, it has no place in the modern world.

There is no " Modern World " ; that's a fabulous fable . There is only the " World " .
For example in City where I live it was common to treat mental patients with music while in Europe same people were burnt on stake for being Witches . Both treatments had religion as their inspiration.
I am not justifiying it because I am not under an illusion of Human Nature . I am simply stating facts while you are stating desires .

The religious zealots of this world are fortunate that atheists aren't like them or they would have gotten together and murdered all of the god fearing psychopaths a long time ago. Your arguments made no sense, it doesn't even matter if I was openly calling for religion to be banned because your entire argument is based on an absurd notion.

Atheists have murdered millions of people all over the World when they had the power and you are saying that they didn't do it for Athestic reasons .

Are you an Atheist ?
If so , it bothers me none but you should not act as if Atheists never genocided people because it is not true .

Nobody is asking for communism, and communism != atheism. Atheism is a small subset of the superset that is communism...so I'm not really sure what point you're expecting to make here.

My point is that religions have purpose and it is not shedding blood . Atheism and Communism are not well established schools of thought(s) ; they are rather new and judging by last Century they are both failure in their claims to bring peace and prosperity to Humanity .

You made some really good points, for sure.

Absence of religion being blamed for these atrocities is unfair. I think there's an absence of religion here, in the UK, over the last few decades. I don't think we're necessarily hard-wired to believe in a god, I don't remember having any concept or idea of god before going to school.

I remember even then, at the age of 5, finding it a rather abstract and bizarre idea. Some magic man in the sky who made everything.

No, I don't think it's inherent to our nature at all. But then you claim that atheism is rather new, more to the point has been stifled by old and primitive belief systems being pushed onto children when they're impressionable.

If someone tells me that everything in the bible, or everthing in the qur'an was apparent to them before they actually became aware of those books...then I'd know that said person is a liar. Nobody is born with beliefs like that, it's an absurd assumption.

No, I'm afraid it's taught and not natural at all. It comes from books, you see...which are written, published and sold by humans.

Maybe if we didn't indoctrinate our kids with these kinds of ideas we'd discover the truth. Presumably, you've such little faith in humanity that you believe if a child was deprived of religious brainwashing and allowed to develop naturally that he/she would become a murderous commie animal.

Maybe people should have faith in humanity rather than a fictional being. And the real irony here is that if we did exactly what I'm advocating, and stopped infecting our kids with the viral infection that is religion, corrupting them, we might actually find out the truth.

I, personally, don't believe that human morality comes from a book at all, that actually is an inherent to us. I knew before I went to school that it was bad to hurt someone or make them cry, growing up with siblings you learn pretty quickly. So my idea of what's morally right and wrong, empathy, sympathy etc were apparent to me long before any notion of a god.

In fact, I honestly don't know any devoutly religious people, at all.

I just realised that.

None, I knew a few casual Christians, by that I mean the type that like Christmas, Easter, have communions, etc. Mostly everything I know about religion was from school where they made us attend mass.

My parents sent me to a Catholic school because they were sent to a Catholic school by their non-religions parents who simply sent them to a Catholic school because their parents...ah, you get the idea.

I put it to you that the UK, for one, has been pretty much majority unwitting atheist for years. Atheists by their actions, the lives they live. We certainly don't have a monopoly on morals, either. So what gives? No genocide!

It's a funny old world, eh. I actually just realised I don't know anyone who goes to mass, and I have a large family, good job and reasonably active social life.

that's another thing, religion takes up too much school time for kids, they ought to be teaching them more usefull stuff instead of filling their heads with mumbo jumbo. Perpetuating that fear of god that we feel the need to hand down from generation to generation because we lack a natural moral compass by which we can measure the merits of our behaviour.