Went to a local mosque and this is what I overheard being taught to young Muslims

a reply to: 23432

No, because unlike you I cannot bring myself to deny the facts that are clearly evident for all to see, it's not me who is hung up on some definition of a word...you are the one claiming islam means peace.

You are the one hung up on the definition of a word, I'm not interested in your interpretation of the word. I am interested only in the facts, the actions carried out in the name of islam are far from peaceful.

I don't understand you, because you do seem to be quite an intelligent person, yet the crap your spouting and the mental gymnastics you are performing to perpetuate an obvious falsehood are astounding.

I don't care about your definition, a dictionary definition...it's completely irrelevant, by your logic we can say that murder means love and that simply makes it so. Murder isn't a word, it's an act. Islam is more than a word, a definition.

Also...who cares what Muhammad Ali says? The guy was a boxer for crying out loud, a great boxer. I've watched many of his fights, yes people do admire the man, don't make his opinion gospel, does it?

So this is the sum total of your argument, it boils down to the fact that a man you idolise says it so it must be true? Mike Tyson was also an amazing boxer and turned to Islam...I love Tyson, the man will go down in history as one of the greatest boxers to ever live, but have you heard some of the crap that's come out of his mouth?

You invest far too much faith in what Ali said...here's me thinking you've actually put some thought into this and are a free thinker who is capable of reasoning and makig your own choices and decisions..and it turns out you're simply parroting the views of someone you admire.

You're an idiot!

You know who I always admired? Roger Waters, I admire his art, his music, Amused to death was one of the greatest albums of the 20th century.

You know what, though? I now think he's a dick, because rather than do what he's good at, write amazing lyrics and write awesome music his politics are absurd. He supports hamas, openly attacks Trump at his concerts...I still love his music but the man's an ass.

You have just lost any credibility you ever had in this thread, and you didn't have much I can tell you. Think for yourself instead of letting Muhammad Ali and Gandhi think for you...sheep.

At least that explains your inability to make a meaningful argument without resorting to flooding the thread with meaningless memes...because you don't actually have a view or opinion, you have someone elses.

You're a joke.

ETA: Slightly off topic but interested in your opinion...

Ali versus Liston...the phantom punch, what's your opinion? Did Ali connect or did Liston throw the fight?

See, boxing has something in common with religion.

A lot of fakers pretend they're interested in the art just like a lot of pious morons pretend to be devoutly religious. You can usually tell the frauds, they talk about the most well known boxers...people mostly idolise Ali because they're told he's a legend, not because they were able to observe him in action and reach that conclusion on their own.

Ali was a dick, also...have you heard the crap that came out of his mouth?

Did you ever see him beat up that teddy bear, pretending it was Joe Frazier? Ali was an outright knob to Frazier...Frazier was a great boxer who could have taught Ali a thing or two about manners and how to be humble.

Ali was a good boxer and nothing more, his rhetoric was embarassing at times.

Nice hero.

I'm gonna wrap up, here...I'm in danger of becoming more like you, before you know it I'll have spent seven days in a single thread trying to argue my point.

My stand against religion is no different to that of making a stand against certain drugs. If 1 in 10,000 people die of an overdose the first time they do heroin then there need to be some controls in place to limit its availability.

If 1 in 100,000 people will go postal with a machine gun then I believe that people should need to go through a process that assesses their mental health before they're awarded a license.

If 1 in 500,000 refugees is an ISIS sleeper than I believe we should do everything in our power to identify such people, and until we can do some effectively and efficiently we should close our borders.

I'm for common sense.

If 1 in 1 million people will read the qur'an and decide to strap an explosive vest on themselves, or take a bomb to a kids concert, or take to the streets kniving people...my own people, in my country, in my city...that's too close to home and something needs to be done. I don't care if that person acted because of a flawed or accurate interpretation of the book, like I said...perhaps if it wasn't so abstract and ambiguous it'd make more sense and people wouldn't be feeling the way I do. They banned catcher in the rye in schools, for crying out loud.

I don't care if they're islamic, christian, or a zen buddhist. If they get the idea, notion or compulsion to act violently as a direct result of their beliefs then we have to push for at least a reform of that belief system or to phase it out of existence.

Islam is beyond reform, it#'s rigid, to reform it would be its destruction because there's no concession given.

People bang on about how the christians did this or that, they ain't ever done anything evil by trying to emulate Christ, is that even possible? Where in the bible did Jesus behead some 800 or so men and boys in the siege at Medina? When did he have sex with a 9 year old?

The guy was a virgin for crying out loud...but his brand of mumbo jumbo still gave us muppets like the Westboro lot. Even heroin and coc aine have more to offer humanity than religion. I wouldn't mind so much if the majority of the people preaching it were being genuine but most peoples beliefs go out the window when they're under considerable duress.

It's an absolute joke, and this blind belief that we're all indoctrinated with...this absurd idea that it's wrong to even as much as question or disrespect someone's beliefs is insane. I refuse to tow that line...I will call it as I see it...religous, are you?

You're either 1: a fraud or 2: a nutter.

Belief in God isn't the same as having a spiritual side. But if you buy into some mainstream religion, some preset...you're basically claiming that your true, inherent beliefs just so happen to follow this system that's laden with bizarre ritual and ceremony. It's absurd...and this idea that God is observing you and judging you, that you must conform to some crazy set of rules lest ye be damned. you might aswell demand babysitters for crying out loud, and a reward for best behaviour.

It's kinda funny but at the same time, the consequences aren't...it's prehistoric, primitive, and it's time we grew out of it.

Bye now.

-----





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because you don't understand me :






--------

lastly ;



break your conditioning ; if not ....


remember

originally posted by: 23432

You carry on arguing about Islam not meaning peace .

Peace , ehm , I mean Islam of course .

The Myth:

Muslim apologists sometimes claim that the root word of Islam is “al-Salaam,” which is "peace" in Arabic.


The Truth:

An Arabic word has only one root. The root word for Islam is “al-Silm,” which means “submission” or “surrender.” There is no disagreement about this among Arabic or Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word.

Submission and peace can be very different concepts, even if a form of peace can be brought about by forcing others into submission. As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also orders them to subdue people of other religions until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its military and demographic success in conquering other cultures.

The meaning of Islām as derivative.
Islām is the verbal noun for the verb أسلم aslama which shares a similar meaning to another form of the verb: سلّم sallama which means to submit and surrender. Aslama also has the meaning of resigning and to come to accept, which is what the word istaslama conveys as well. Ibn Manẓūr states: “Islām & Istislām[8] both mean total submission (inqiyād). Islām according to the sharī’ah means to manifest total submission and obedience as well as manifest the sharī’ah and adhere to the teachings of the Prophet (sallAllāhu ‘alayhi wasallam)

PEACE appears to be missing

------

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: 23432

You carry on arguing about Islam not meaning peace .

Peace , ehm , I mean Islam of course .

The Myth:

Muslim apologists sometimes claim that the root word of Islam is “al-Salaam,” which is "peace" in Arabic


The Truth:

An Arabic word has only one root. The root word for Islam is “al-Silm,” which means “submission” or “surrender.” There is no disagreement about this among Arabic or Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word.

Submission and peace can be very different concepts, even if a form of peace can be brought about by forcing others into submission. As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also orders them to subdue people of other religions until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its military and demographic success in conquering other cultures.

The meaning of Islām as derivative.
Islām is the verbal noun for the verb أسلم aslama which shares a similar meaning to another form of the verb: سلّم sallama which means to submit and surrender. Aslama also has the meaning of resigning and to come to accept, which is what the word istaslama conveys as well. Ibn Manẓūr states: “Islām & Istislām[8] both mean total submission (inqiyād). Islām according to the sharī’ah means to manifest total submission and obedience as well as manifest the sharī’ah and adhere to the teachings of the Prophet (sallAllāhu ‘alayhi wasallam)

PEACE appears to be missing

Mate, 23432 doesn't have an opinion, he has memes. Has completely given up even trying to put a point across and decided that it's easier if he just links us to the source of his education...memes and quotes.

Notice how he brought his supposed love and respect for Muhammad Ali into the mix, yet when I attempted to engage him in conversation about Ali and his career he bailed, neglecting to respond. He dunno squat about Ali, he just thinks it's cool and makes him intelligent if he includes these cultural icons among his heros. I've met hundreds of Ali zealots who turned out to know nothing about the guy...barely even as much as watched one of his fights.

Then 23432 to do that thing that losers do when they're called out, when someone points out their complete inability to reason or even compose a legitimate argument. I mocked his reliance on memes and he tried that reverse-psych technique where they amplify the very flaw in such a way as to make it look like they're being sarcastic... he responded by posting even more memes at a higher frequency. It's an unspoken social contract that people often undertake -- the loser is seeking to bow out of the debate without having to actually admit they don't have a clue what they're talking about, they're requesting an end to the debate while trying to maintain the illusion that their arguments and methods of delivry were valid and it only works if the other participants in the debate silently agree to the proposition. I don't, posting memes and quotes don't qualify as an opinion, everyone knows it. And this technique of posting even more at higher frequency after being called out fools nobody, this dude is a joke.

His love and respect for Ali is the same as his blind love and devotion to Islam...it's a complete fallacy, a facade.

It's not just religion that people like to appropriate in a public display of better-than-you-ness, they hijack popular culture, also. Pretend they think people like Muhammad Ali and Gandhi were heroes simply because it's often said by others that they were. Dunno nothin' about them, just that we should idolise them, they were great...and everything they said was gospel....just because.

I don't buy it, this dude is so false...and I know 23432 didn't author this thread but the title and claims in the OP were cringey and laughable. It's laughable because it assumes we're all idiots who will believe whatever we're told without being objective, it assumes that we all accept internet claims and memes as a valid form of education.

I could trick anyone into believing anything if I wanted..all I need is facebook, a picture of Winston Churchill, and an agenda. 5 minutes in photoshop and people believe Winston Churchill claimed that men should be allowed to eat babies because it gave them superhuman powers. 23432 would be here within hours, sharing it with us and probably arguing the point with everyone for weeks at a time despite not even knowing who Churchill really was, just that he was definitely awesome.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: 23432

You carry on arguing about Islam not meaning peace .

Peace , ehm , I mean Islam of course .

The Myth:

Muslim apologists sometimes claim that the root word of Islam is “al-Salaam,” which is "peace" in Arabic


The Truth:

An Arabic word has only one root. The root word for Islam is “al-Silm,” which means “submission” or “surrender.” There is no disagreement about this among Arabic or Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word.

Submission and peace can be very different concepts, even if a form of peace can be brought about by forcing others into submission. As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also orders them to subdue people of other religions until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its military and demographic success in conquering other cultures.

The meaning of Islām as derivative.
Islām is the verbal noun for the verb أسلم aslama which shares a similar meaning to another form of the verb: سلّم sallama which means to submit and surrender. Aslama also has the meaning of resigning and to come to accept, which is what the word istaslama conveys as well. Ibn Manẓūr states: “Islām & Istislām[8] both mean total submission (inqiyād). Islām according to the sharī’ah means to manifest total submission and obedience as well as manifest the sharī’ah and adhere to the teachings of the Prophet (sallAllāhu ‘alayhi wasallam)

PEACE appears to be missing

Mate, 23432 doesn't have an opinion, he has memes. Has completely given up even trying to put a point across and decided that it's easier if he just links us to the source of his education...memes and quotes.

Notice how he brought his supposed love and respect for Muhammad Ali into the mix, yet when I attempted to engage him in conversation about Ali and his career he bailed, neglecting to respond. He dunno squat about Ali, he just thinks it's cool and makes him intelligent if he includes these cultural icons among his heros. I've met hundreds of Ali zealots who turned out to know nothing about the guy...barely even as much as watched one of his fights.

Then 23432 to do that thing that losers do when they're called out, when someone points out their complete inability to reason or even compose a legitimate argument. I mocked his reliance on memes and he tried that reverse-psych technique where they amplify the very flaw in such a way as to make it look like they're being sarcastic... he responded by posting even more memes at a higher frequency. It's an unspoken social contract that people often undertake -- the loser is seeking to bow out of the debate without having to actually admit they don't have a clue what they're talking about, they're requesting an end to the debate while trying to maintain the illusion that their arguments and methods of delivry were valid and it only works if the other participants in the debate silently agree to the proposition. I don't, posting memes and quotes don't qualify as an opinion, everyone knows it. And this technique of posting even more at higher frequency after being called out fools nobody, this dude is a joke.

His love and respect for Ali is the same as his blind love and devotion to Islam...it's a complete fallacy, a facade.

It's not just religion that people like to appropriate in a public display of better-than-you-ness, they hijack popular culture, also. Pretend they think people like Muhammad Ali and Gandhi were heroes simply because it's often said by others that they were. Dunno nothin' about them, just that we should idolise them, they were great...and everything they said was gospel....just because.

I don't buy it, this dude is so false...and I know 23432 didn't author this thread but the title and claims in the OP were cringey and laughable. It's laughable because it assumes we're all idiots who will believe whatever we're told without being objective, it assumes that we all accept internet claims and memes as a valid form of education.

I could trick anyone into believing anything if I wanted..all I need is facebook, a picture of Winston Churchill, and an agenda. 5 minutes in photoshop and people believe Winston Churchill claimed that men should be allowed to eat babies because it gave them superhuman powers. 23432 would be here within hours, sharing it with us and probably arguing the point with everyone for weeks at a time despite not even knowing who Churchill really was, just that he was definitely awesome.

Muhammed Ali said Islam means Peace .

Malcolm X said Islam means Peace .

Gandhi said Islam means Peace .

endof.

Feel free to argue that these men were fools .




I actually saw Ali cry his eyes out in public in Istanbul ; when asked why he was crying , he famously replied ; " I never saw this many white muslims before " .

You can google that fact but hey it must be easier to " flame & troll " .

a reply to: 23432

Lol.

Yeah, you nailed it dude.

I submit.

I mean, peace...I peace.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
a reply to: 23432

Lol.

Yeah, you nailed it dude.

I submit.

I mean, peace...I peace.

Ali didn't know the " white " was a political term and Turks are not " whites " either .




You submit to NO man ; submit to Big Bang instead .


What do you want ?

Islam means Peace even if that pisses you off and destroys your revisionist narrative ; you think you are having an original debate ?

Islam = Peace .

Deal with it .

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
a reply to: 23432

Lol.

Yeah, you nailed it dude.

I submit.

I mean, peace...I peace.

Ali didn't know the " white " was a political term and Turks are not " whites " either .

You submit to NO man ; submit to Big Bang instead .


What do you want ?

Islam means Peace even if that pisses you off and destroys your revisionist narrative ; you think you are having an original debate ?

Islam = Peace .

Deal with it .

Dude, I've dealt with it, bro. Why os histile, brah? Where's the peace now, yo?

I own it, I r teh white guilt personified, you won. I'm giving in or peacing, if you will.

You won, brah!

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

I'm gonna wrap up, here...I'm in danger of becoming more like you, before you know it I'll have spent seven days in a single thread trying to argue my point.

with 2 things you wrote you just dismiss your opinion as the ramblings of a confused soul.

here let me quote 2 lines, both in the same post directed to the same poster.

because you do seem to be quite an intelligent person

then a paragraph or 2 later

You're an idiot!

well done.

The poster goes from being quite an intelligent person to an idiot simply because their opinion is the same as as a Boxers.

Notice how he brought his supposed love and respect for Muhammad Ali into the mix, yet when I attempted to engage him in conversation about Ali and his career he bailed, neglecting to respond.

Because it would become completely off topic then.

Not very bright are you yet others are idiots.

Not very bright thinking that all that poster has to do is engage you on ATS, no life what so ever, just here to engage in your off topic directed talk.

I'm for common sense.

pure comedy gold.

lets take a look at your form of common sense shall we

If 1 in 10,000 people die of an overdose the first time they do heroin then there need to be some controls in place to limit its availability.

Lets forget about education and actually making more available to the public facts and comparisons about the drug and other drugs that are taxed and legal.

Limit its availability is common sense?

Here a little fact for you, the governments of the world are already attempting to limit its availability by making it an illicit substance.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
a reply to: 23432

Lol.

Yeah, you nailed it dude.

I submit.

I mean, peace...I peace.

Ali didn't know the " white " was a political term and Turks are not " whites " either .

You submit to NO man ; submit to Big Bang instead .


What do you want ?

Islam means Peace even if that pisses you off and destroys your revisionist narrative ; you think you are having an original debate ?

Islam = Peace .

Deal with it .

Dude, I've dealt with it, bro. Why os histile, brah? Where's the peace now, yo?

I own it, I r teh white guilt personified, you won. I'm giving in or peacing, if you will.

You won, brah!

" white guilt " my arse


there never was war between the two of us to begin with ; you were warring against your own demons.


Islam I mean peace , of course.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

you're going all-out here to defend the pedophilic relationship of a man and 9 year old girl...you can spend all day arguing your points but at the end of the day you're just some dude on a forum trying to justify pedophilia.

How many people were arrested for pedophilia 1500years ago?

How many of your ancestors were pedophiles?

I suppose that, if a middle aged man wants to marry a girl of 9 in the modern day, it should be up to the child whether or not they get married, then?

Hold on, why mention the modern day?


I assume this means you know you cannot judge people living 1000 years ago using today's standards of right and wrong.

Lastly, I just want to highlight something for you...maybe you're not as clever as you seem to think.

and later they re intelligent and then an idiot. yes yes, readers get it, you post with emotion not with critical thinking.

I'm always pretty wary of folk who proclaim themselves to be clever and it's oozing out of everything you post.

so how do you live and deal with yourself everyday?

seriously, your ramblings about people that say they like this or that person isn't at all your ego and your sense of cleverness posting is it, yeah its not oozing out everything you have posted in the last 2 pages either.

For reals, yo.

I've had a good think, about my attitude. Had time to reflect and I get it.

It's not about the silly little things what happen...they're just boo boo's, little hiccups what would happen anyway even if there wasn't a religion. People do stuff like that, rig up briefcases with bombs and stuff, they do it for the lulz.

You have inspired me to look to popular culture and internet memes as a valuable resource, just so that you understnad my take on it all I'll quote directly from the source for you:

You see, sometimes god takes those closest to us because it makes him feel better about himself.

He's a very vengeful god and he's all pi$$ed off about somethin' we did thousands of years ago...he just can't get over it! So he don't care who he takes, children..puppies, it doesn't matter to him so long as it makes us sad! Do you understand?

Look at it this way, if you wanted to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollypop and then you take it away. If you didn't give him the lollypop to begin with then he'd have nothing to cry about.

That's like god...he gives us life, love and health just so that he can take it all away and make us cry!

So that he can drink the sweet milk of our tears, you see -- it's our tears that give god his great power!

Chef -- South Park

You won, bruh!

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

you're going all-out here to defend the pedophilic relationship of a man and 9 year old girl...you can spend all day arguing your points but at the end of the day you're just some dude on a forum trying to justify pedophilia.

How many people were arrested for pedophilia 1500years ago?

How many of your ancestors were pedophiles?

I suppose that, if a middle aged man wants to marry a girl of 9 in the modern day, it should be up to the child whether or not they get married, then?

Hold on, why mention the modern day?


I assume this means you know you cannot judge people living 1000 years ago using today's standards of right and wrong.

Lastly, I just want to highlight something for you...maybe you're not as clever as you seem to think.

and later they re intelligent and then an idiot. yes yes, readers get it, you post with emotion not with critical thinking.

I'm always pretty wary of folk who proclaim themselves to be clever and it's oozing out of everything you post.

so how do you live and deal with yourself everyday?

seriously, your ramblings about people that say they like this or that person isn't at all your ego and your sense of cleverness posting is it, yeah its not oozing out everything you have posted in the last 2 pages either.

i know, dude...it's terrible.

If it's any consolation I got my a$$ handed to me.

InhaleExhale

Before I trot off, defeated, let's just clear this up. You raised two particular points which apparently invalidate my position.

Let's take a closer, more honest look and see whose position you've actually invalidated:

here let me quote 2 lines, both in the same post directed to the same poster.



because you do seem to be quite an intelligent person


then a paragraph or 2 later



You're an idiot!


well done.

The poster goes from being quite an intelligent person to an idiot simply because their opinion is the same as as a Boxers.

You do realise that something can seem or appear to be like something, then turn out not to be, right? Seems to me you deliberately skipped that particular word on purpose but I could be wrong!

I wasn't claiming 23432 to be both things which are opposed to one another, it was pretty clear what I meant. Appearances can be deceptive...so can sentences when you opt to omit parts that don't suit your narrative.

I'm for common sense.



pure comedy gold.

lets take a look at your form of common sense shall we



If 1 in 10,000 people die of an overdose the first time they do heroin then there need to be some controls in place to limit its availability.

Lets forget about education and actually making more available to the public facts and comparisons about the drug and other drugs that are taxed and legal.

Limit its availability is common sense?

Here a little fact for you, the governments of the world are already attempting to limit its availability by making it an illicit substance.

Lol, this is great, and you are right. It is comedy gold.

Yes, yes I was aware of that, that's exactly the point I am trying to make, we do control harmful substances but not harmful ideologies. So, in your lame attempt to highlight my apparent inconsistencies and failures you've done the opposite.

I'm most grateful...so even though I lost, bruh, it wasn't you what beat me.

It was 23432 with his memes.

Conclusion: the only position you invalidated here was your own.

Unfortunately this does not include Islam: Proof: