Prophet Ishmael (pbuh)

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: yuppa


You might think it a slick device to say "Go back and read..."

Yet I made no errors to warrant the suggestion to reread.

Not slick. You don't like Ishmael or Arabs or Muslims or something but God BLESSED ISHMAEL (pbuh) to be a great Prince of 12 nations.

It is you who needs to read it for the first time apparently.

Oh no I dont like revisionist. I like Arabs,and muslims who are good and just just fine. Islam goes by Blood on the fathers side. But if you are being totally honest

Abraham believed for many years that Ishmael was the son of promise, but God informed him that the Sovereign Lord of history had other plans. It was always God's plan for the son of promise to come from Abraham and Sarah. The use of Hagar as a surrogate was of their devising, not God's.

So OP you are saying that God was Wrong?

God promised a son to Abraham through his wife Sarah, but what about Ishmael? Abraham asked God if Ishmael could be the son of promise. God's answer is recorded in Genesis 17:19-20. “Then God said: 'No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.

Now here is where God gives Ishmael a gift as well.

And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.'”

So See If i was biased against Arabs I would had omitted that. Ishmael was a mirror to Isaac. they BOTH ruled many peoples.

a reply to: RisenMessiah

To be honest I don't think it is a great idea to mutilate an infant as their first worldly experience after crying to breath.

And would not mind the extra sensation.

I just can't change it. If you make any progress on that transplant procedure let me know.

It did make converting pain free at least.

a reply to: yuppa


Yeah I didn't revise anything.

That Ishmael was blessed by God to be a Prince of 12 nations is in the Bible.

And I cited some Rabbinical literature and gave a link to an 8th century Apocalypse where Mohammed saws is the "Rider on the camel" of Isaiah attributed to ben Yohai the Talmud sage.

And cited two historians of the 7-8th century.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

a reply to: yuppa

I didn't say anything of the sort you read what you want to read.

God didn't do anything wrong and I never even hinted He di1d, that's your fanaticism showing.

You hate it that Ishmael was circumcised into the Covenant and is a legitimate son by Biblical law just like Jacobs slave children were.

Typical Christian double standard logic,ie not logical.

Since God ordered Joshua to exterminate Canaan but didn't and Judah had at least 3 Canaanite wives it seems they are guilty of breaking a Divine decree and they are Canaanites by matrilineal genealogy which is more important to Jews.

I could come up with so many reasons you don't make any sense and are just full of hate for Ishmael(pbuh) because of Islam.

Hate won't do you any good with Jesus(pbuh) who I don't recall ever denigrating Biblical Patriarchs and Prophets.

Just Balaam but that was a cloak for Paul and his idol meat eating teachings that Jesus(pbuh) condemned.

Proving Paul never was guided by Jesus(pbuh) or would not have had his teaching condemned.

Paul even said it was for the weak brothers only but this HS through James decreed it.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: RisenMessiah

To be honest I don't think it is a great idea to mutilate an infant as their first worldly experience after crying to breath.

And would not mind the extra sensation.

I just can't change it. If you make any progress on that transplant procedure let me know.

It did make converting pain free at least.

For a male its a Cleanliness issue these days. Back in the past this was a life or death issue. baths were not as frequent in biblical times as they are today. And disease was easier to catch too. Now females do not need circumsision at all. thats just stupid.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: yuppa


Yeah I didn't revise anything.

That Ishmael was blessed by God to be a Prince of 12 nations is in the Bible.

And I cited some Rabbinical literature and gave a link to an 8th century Apocalypse where Mohammed saws is the "Rider on the camel" of Isaiah attributed to ben Yohai the Talmud sage.

And cited two historians of the 7-8th century.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

You didnt read me put that in my reply above? i said God blessed him as well No it is you who are wrong. Ishmael was not the son of promise though. Ishmaeel was pissed off with his brother and Abraham later sent him into the wilderness with his mother. And I was not making it up as you put it. You are living up to the promise of being a Ass of a man and a thorn in the side just as God promised Ishmaeels decendents would be. So be proud.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
Why do I need an angle?
I wanted to make a thread about Ishmael.

How droll. If you want people to engage in your threads then you need to be more accommodating.

If you don't give an angle, then people will just make one. At the moment it's turning into the rights and wrongs (but mainly wrongs) for mutilating children in the pointless practice of circumcision. Is that what you intended?

Anyway, Ishmael is (as I pointed out) supposed to be the father of Arabs, by Muslims at least. This suggests that only Muslims can be Arabs.

a reply to: paraphi

You could always not whine.

a reply to: yuppa


Sarah MADE a reluctant Abraham do it.

God reassured him by promising to Make Ishmael a great nation.

So Abraham agreed.

You are trying to blame a 14 yo teenager for being typically jealous of a newborn and laughing at him like it's so sinister.

You don't even know the story.

And even Rabbinical literature is kind to Ishmael (usually) so you got issues with Ishmael(pbuh) the Jews don't even have.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
Why do I need an angle?
I wanted to make a thread about Ishmael.

How droll. If you want people to engage in your threads then you need to be more accommodating.

If you don't give an angle, then people will just make one. At the moment it's turning into the rights and wrongs (but mainly wrongs) for mutilating children in the pointless practice of circumcision. Is that what you intended?

Anyway, Ishmael is (as I pointed out) supposed to be the father of Arabs, by Muslims at least. This suggests that only Muslims can be Arabs.

Its funny how well Muhammeds deception has tricked the decendants of Ishmael so well. He took the promise Ishmael was given and used it to make himself a prophet.(lol double meaning lol)
He essentially went and flipped everything around backwards,but hey most back them were unable to read so it was easy to fool them.

a reply to: paraphi


Muslims can be Muslims, ie those who do God's Will.

Is what it is.

And have every right to and God's support.

Deal with it.

a reply to: yuppa

Now you have to slander Mohammed saws?

Pathetic.

Because I know the Bible better than you, typical.

Taqqiya (deception) is a Shia concept of concealing your true beliefs while pledging loyalty to Islam.

And we know so it doesn't work.

Mohammed saws was actually extraordinarily honest, and not every Biblical Prophet was, even Abraham practiced deception, Jacob, many of the Jews stories are of subterfuge.

Not so in Islam. Sunni Islam.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: yuppa


Sarah MADE a reluctant Abraham do it.

God reassured him by promising to Make Ishmael a great nation.

So Abraham agreed.

You are trying to blame a 14 yo teenager for being typically jealous of a newborn and laughing at him like it's so sinister.

You don't even know the story.

And even Rabbinical literature is kind to Ishmael (usually) so you got issues with Ishmael(pbuh) the Jews don't even have.

Yeha Im not disputing that. but SARAH made Abraham do something. GOD said to ABraham though that HE was talkign about SARAH having the child,and then Blessed her so she could have it later.
And it woudnt be the first time a sibling got jealous of a newborn was it?

I posted peices of th estory above. Ill provide you th elink. it has both sides presented.
the biblical origins of the Arab people

So No I was not making anything up. read it yourself.

What is this ''Guy makes a thread about a favorite religous figure of his, is Muslim, so let's show how little we know the Bible and slander Ishmael day?" And now Mohammed (saws pbuh)?

Winners!

Nothing better to do than insult people's religion, you must have miserable lives.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

hard headed ness is a trait for Muslims. thats a inherit trait of a Ass. Its not a slight at all. Its because you are a test.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
What is this ''Guy makes a thread about a favorite religous figure of his, is Muslim, so let's show how little we know the Bible and slander Ishmael day?" And now Mohammed (saws pbuh)?

Winners!

Nothing better to do than insult people's religion, you must have miserable lives.

not even going to read what i linked huh? typical.

a reply to: yuppa

Buddy you are totally oblivious to anything beyond your presuppositions


The Bible says everything I said it does.

You have been mistaken every time.

a reply to: yuppa

Type something worthy of a human being and I will.

You are an animal of hate.

I have no need to talk with your kind.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: yuppa

Buddy you are totally oblivious to anything beyond your presuppositions


The Bible says everything I said it does.

You have been mistaken every time.

WHat i posted above was from that link which can all be sources to th ebible. no its you who are wrong this time. I read the bible cover to cover over a entire year. I have a good understanding of it.

.