schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

Is it really that hard?

Even June Cleaver speaks jive.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: Tardacus
basically the researcher is saying minorities are too stupid to learn English so they should be allowed to use any language they want,the next thing they will tell us is that minorities are too stupid to obey the laws so they should be allowed to commit crimes.

Nah. That only would happen if someone's living in LA LA Land.

Ummm...Los Angeles...?


YouSir

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: uncommitted

Ebonics is not evolving , its a example of devolving.

People who speak it are more likely to be unemployed, criminals and other undesirable.

Actually it is an evolution of English, all dialects of a language are evolutions. Are you going to check my links and verify that the premise of your OP is correct or are you going to continue peddling disinformation?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Excellent response!

I am totally on board with everything you wrote. Also note that I do not agree with lowering the standards of English in order to appease the majority.

Expressing oneself in a lucid and commonly understood manner is essential, I agree.

None of my comments promote teaching our students an other than standard form of English, but rather were aimed at those who feel as if one dialect is cognitively inferior to another, and approaching its speakers as future criminals (see previous comment) is the real crime here.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's sad that people associate Ebonics with lower intelligence though not surprising. Southern vernacular doesn't get looked down upon or cost you a job despite being very far from proper English.

Ebonics is pretty complex so it shouldn't be associated with lower intelligence at all. That's pretty much all this Erika Gallagher person is trying to do. Destigmatize Ebonics, not teach it.

a reply to: Kali74

I agree with you. Every region has its vernacular. One's language skills are not a reflection of intelligence. They are a reflection of the quality of education received, however.

I have lots of anecdotes about people who don't speak the common English well. One inservice trainer came to our office from the South. She said, "Okay, everyone make a will." We had no idea why we were expected to make a Will during this inservice which was about education. We had to figure out she meant "WHEEL."

Just like Stawm Cumin (storm coming) signs warning of impending weather in the Northeast, or Chitlins (chitterlings) on the menu. etc.

Optimum success relies on one's ability to speak and understand both the local vernacular/dialect AND translate it into general American english. Or vice versa.

a reply to: crazyewok

Hell no. If they aren't driven enough to learn the language then they deserve stay in the ghetto and sell drugs and go nowhere in life.

My mother worked with a black kid for years, from 16-ish until his late-20's when she quit. He spoke as clearly and articulately as a damn professor most of the time. His reasoning was he wasn't from the ghetto, didn't want to be in the ghetto, and had aspirations of substance for his future. "Ghetto speak" wasn't going to achieve his goals (to eventually own & run their store himself, maybe even multiple locations some day)
And yet, this upstanding, goal-driven kid was picked on by other black kids & grown-ass adult black folks as an Uncle Tom for properly enunciating his words ON THE JOB, and wanting to own a business down the road. He never thought too highly of people like that, his parents taught him they're not important. Not so much "better than thou" as it was "they matter not".
I think it still bothered him a lot, with racism from the rich older white folks in the area, plus racism from his own race. But he never let it slow him down any, he was the only teenager I'd even met that opened & contributed to his own IRA while still in high school. So the hecklers can suck on that.

a reply to: crazyewok

They are hurting these children not helping them! They need to be able to speak and communicate in the proper way or they will not succeed! SMH

a reply to: crazyewok

We should abandon all colequelIisms?

The people in the south generally speaking, what ever color they are speak the way you are describing.

If you want to make your argument then diction should be taught to about half the country.

If your talking about teaching a proper English language then sure. Go for it. Preach on.

Otherwise schools recognize the vernacular of their area. This is not news.

a reply to: JDmOKI

But they are not trying to create a COURSE around it. BIG difference


JT

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: uncommitted

Ebonics is not evolving , its a example of devolving.

People who speak it are more likely to be unemployed, criminals and other undesirable.

Like Cockneys, or people from most regional parts of the UK that use their own slang?

Kali has already pointed out that this isn't about replacing grammar, but allowing people to use it in their creative writing which is to be celebrated.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: crazyewok

Too bad we don't pay teachers more, else we might find people who do have the time, patience, and care to help raise youth that will be happy and productive members of our society.

That's the parents job, not the teachers.

You should not be a teacher, you sound like you are doing more damage than good.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: uncommitted

What's really funny is that a lot of our tried and true rules are based on an outdated little book of grammars that became more popular than its peers.

A lot of the fast English rules are actually based on Latin rules and were, at one time, completely arbitrary.

Absolutely. The term 'to split an infinitive' for example comes from an English parson with his own very particular rules on grammar - to boldy go or to go boldly - does that really matter?

originally posted by: wheresthebody
You should not be a teacher, you sound like you are doing more damage than good.

Why?

Because I insist my students use correct English in the classroom that descent university's and jobs require?

Because after working 10 hours a day I refuse to waste MY OWN time learning jibberjabber nonsense talk?

As a science teacher I give zero #s about ebonics.

quote snip was pulled from the OP link

Gallagher’s research focuses on a theory called “code switching,” which means that individuals adapt their speech and mannerisms to those around them. She believes that minorities with poor language skills feel marginalized by having to adapt to those who speak proper English. To mind their sensitivities, Gallagher intends to end the stigma of ebonics—also known as African-American Vernacular English—a dialect spoken by some black people in the United States—and encourage its use in schools.

Will someone please explain how this will help anyone? Why do we have children that are graduating high school and are unable to speak our native language. Is high school that bad? If so we need to fix this, not hurt them more. Any child that graduates from high school in the United State of America should be able to speak and write English, period!

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: uncommitted

Ebonics is not evolving , its a example of devolving.

People who speak it are more likely to be unemployed, criminals and other undesirable.

Like Cockneys, or people from most regional parts of the UK that use their own slang?

Kali has already pointed out that this isn't about replacing grammar, but allowing people to use it in their creative writing which is to be celebrated.

Exactly and just destigmatize it all together which is not the same thing as teaching it or using it in the classroom to teach.

a reply to: crazyewok

No, because you sound like a terrible teacher.

a reply to: EternalShadow


In that case we will be perpetually stuck in the same cyclical patterns. Kids that were unfortunate enough to be born to unproductive and socially antithetical families will grow up to be more of the same. If we are to improve and work in a functional society, we should consider trying to be responsible for ourselves and each other just a bit more. The more you give the more you get.

I believe it takes a village and am tremendously grateful for all of the non-related adults that took an interest in my success. I hope to be the same for others.