schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

a reply to: crazyewok

You might notice (with a more careful reading) that neither of my comments promote teaching ebonics, rather they are aimed at the mistaken impression that one race's means of communicating is superior to another.

Your use of trash as an adjective to describe the way human beings express themselves is very telling.

a reply to: Tardacus

the next thing they will tell us is that minorities are too stupid to obey the laws so they should be allowed to commit crimes.

We are pretty much there already in many instances. Pull the Police back and "Give them space to destroy!"

a reply to: crazyewok

This, and things like it, hurt minorities. It does not help them.
The real world will not coddle them like schools do.
Using ebonics on Job applications, while speaking to authoritative figures, and teaching language to their children will hold them back.


Almost as if by design...

All these (mostly) liberal policies meant to help minorities do the opposite.
They give minorities a "boogyman" to fear and give them a built in excuse to fail and their children to fail..

Blame it on the man, rinse, wash, repeat.

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

The article is a lie.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: crazyewok

I don't think you should bring your biases (civilized people etc) into the classroom.

I would hate to have a teacher that thought I was uncivilized due to my speaking patterns and use of improper grammar.

Too bad we don't pay teachers more, else we might find people who do have the time, patience, and care to help raise youth that will be happy and productive members of our society.

To be happy and productive members of our society they need to speak proper English and have good grammar. Period.
I was a teacher, too. Ebonics is a slang used in their homes. Has no place in school or work or public speaking.

Spanish is very much a civilized language.

@OP: if you need someone to practice with, I'm up for it!

Another thing I fail to understand, is how most of these thugs are shown in graduation cap and gown after they are killed while committing their 674673 crime. There is no way in hell they graduated to the standards set on paper. No way period.

My aunt is a retired high school teacher.
She taught English as a second language in a public school in Harrisburg, PA.
She had Vietnamese, Hispanic, Eastern European and even Hmong students in her classes.
They were immigrant children.
She also had students that were born and raised in the US that spoke ebonics only. They had to learn English in order to pass entrance exams for community college.
The real failure was the fact that they had passed through grammar school without learning enough English to function at level required to gain entrance into a community college.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What about slam poetry or essays, short stories or novels that take place in the ghetto? The article is lying. No one is trying to change English rules or teach Ebonics, they are only seeking to destigmatize its use in creative works.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What about slam poetry or essays, short stories or novels that take place in the ghetto? The article is lying. No one is trying to change English rules or teach Ebonics, they are only seeking to destigmatize its use in creative works.

WRONG< br /> Seems some want it used in the science class room!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Buzzy, I usually agree with you. Not this time though. We have scholars with varying levels of skin pigmantation speaking proper grammar. Then we have everyone else (the productive and happy, the blue collars, the mechanics, etc). If a person wishes to become a linguistic scholar, they should have that opportunity.
We will not all be linguistically refined but we are all a valid component of human existance.

All language, ebonics included, follows sophisticated and ordered grammatical patterns.

There are many ways to be productive and happy members of society, and being grammatically proficient in Standard English is certainly one- just not the only way.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

The article is a lie.

Thats good.
Damn fake news

a reply to: crazyewok

I as a teacher am certainly not going to learn gibberjabber talk, I have neither the time, patience or cares,

.....to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator....Amen.

a reply to: crazyewok

You should read my post on page one, I linked to a different, less deceitful article. Are you unaware that there's a war on Academia in the U.S. and that lies and deliberate misconstruing of facts happen all the time?

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: crazyewok

You should read my post on page one, I linked to a different, less deceitful article. Are you unaware that there's a war on Academia in the U.S. and that lies and deliberate misconstruing of facts happen all the time?

It's sad when the academics are against Academia.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What about slam poetry or essays, short stories or novels that take place in the ghetto? The article is lying. No one is trying to change English rules or teach Ebonics, they are only seeking to destigmatize its use in creative works.

Starred.

Of course language doesn't evolve, does it, ever?

a reply to: uncommitted

Ebonics is not evolving , its a example of devolving.

People who speak it are more likely to be unemployed, criminals and other undesirable.

a reply to: uncommitted

What's really funny is that a lot of our tried and true rules are based on an outdated little book of grammars that became more popular than its peers.

A lot of the fast English rules are actually based on Latin rules and were, at one time, completely arbitrary.

a reply to: zosimov

I usually agree with you, too. I think it is important that we be able to cross-communicate with all sectors of society. When in Rome, etc. Ebonics was something I learned when I worked in the urban core. We were still teaching them proper English. A person walking into a hiring office, or applying for work or college, who uses "ebonics" is sabatoging themselves.

I also taught Spanish as a Second Language to American service workers like utilities and hospital staff and clinicians in community settings. People in America need to be fluent in American English. The kind they speak on NPR, or Fox. Not everyone can understand ebonics. I began learning Spanish at age 8. Kept up with it all my life. I'm the only one in my family who can speak it. And it has proven itself over and over again as a valuable skill.

This isn't the first time they've tried to push this through, either. 20 years ago they did the same thing. I was raised with precision language, spelling, grammar, and punctuation/writing skills as a matter of course. My parents ALWAYS corrected us if we crossed the line into slang. With friends is a different thing.

Even at home, the kids of Spanish-speakers who are raised here learn both from infancy. They act as interpreters for their parents who often are too stressed or poorly educated to learn English themselves. This puts the kids in compromised situations. But that's life.

When a child has to tell the doctor or any other "authority" what is mom's ailment or problem or trouble, that often includes adult material that is not appropriate for kids to be thrown into the middle of.

We need to enforce a national vernacular that is globally understood. That is "General American." Every citizen needs to be proficient at it. That's all there is to it.

Sweetie, you know I am very much inclusive of all ethnicities and entranced with language. But it's true that to be successful, people need to be articulate. In General English. It's a global thing anyway. People in other countries that are industrialized and trading with Western countries ALL LEARN PROPER ENGLISH. Whether they are in Denmark or China or South Africa or France or Brazil or Russian or Farsi, they learn English. Our children absolutely need to be taught it. What they do on their own time is there their own business, but no.

We must not allow "ebonics" as some sort of alternative American dialect. No. And they need to pull up their damn pants, too!!
It's not doing youngsters any service at all to allow (let alone encourage) them to speak sub-par versions of English. Not if they are going to be viable citizens as adults in this world.

It's a strength to know more than one language, now more than ever. If I had my way, every kid would be taught Spanish alongside English from preK. Same with kids from ebonics homes or communities. They need to learn proper English.

That is what keeps civilization going. Sympathy and empathy are fine, but there is a place for accuracy and linguistic precision that must not be overlooked or dismissed.

You don't have to shame them to teach them business and academic English. But they need to learn it whether they use it at home or not.