Origin of Freemasonry and other questions(for masons)

Originally posted by akilles
Blah Blah Blah Blah

Sorry mate, but do you actually think before you post, or are you just intentionally going around looking for Freemasonry subjects and then repeating the same old drivvle.

Some of us actually want to listen and learn, take information people offer from their own free will and put it together with what we already know.

If you just want to troll at least subject everyone to your whimperings, or have you only read the first three websites on Freemasonry that popped up on google. You do know they aren't in order of truth don't you

Phreemasonry's roots seem a lot more ancient than they are being given credit for.

It is only when we expect to see it in the SAME form through all the ages that we find it to have begun rather recently (1717).

Hmmm, Egypt had secret societies. They called it the Mystery Religion, then swore up and down it wasn't religious.

Originally posted by akilles
It is only when we expect to see it in the SAME form through all the ages that we find it to have begun rather recently (1717).

So you are saying that masonry existed before masonry was around, right?

I mean, to be clear, thats what a 'different' form means right? You are saying that freemasonry since 1717 is something different from somethign that was important in the past, but that they are related, right?

Egypt had secret societies. They called it the Mystery Religion, then swore up and down it wasn't religious.

When did the egyptians state that their mystery cults weren't mystery cults? Are you now saying that fremasonry since 1717 is infact the mystery cults of egypt?

Originally posted by akilles
Phreemasonry's roots seem a lot more ancient than they are being given credit for.

It is only when we expect to see it in the SAME form through all the ages that we find it to have begun rather recently (1717).

Hmmm, Egypt had secret societies. They called it the Mystery Religion, then swore up and down it wasn't religious.

Modern Freemasonry beagn in England by the amalgamation of 4 Grand Lodges in 1717 , so it is obvious that there was a number of different forms of Freemasonry before that in order for that to happen.

The problem is as 99% of all Masonic activity was by word of mouth there is no real evidence to the prior history of Freemasonry or how it came into being.

There are mant thories none of which can be proved. Some go back to the Pyramid builders, some to the Knoghts Templar.

I go with the propoderence of the evidence that Freemasonry evolved from the old Craft Guilds.

Some of these guilds are still around today, check your serch engines for Worshipful Companies.

In London we still have hundreds of Worshipful Companies which derive from the old Guilds, sometimes craftsmen , sometimes traders.

Example
www.clockmakers.org...
THE WORSHIPFUL COMPANY OF CLOCKMAKERS OF LONDON.

I have done some business with one of these Companies, we refurbished a flat in London, expensive job. The flat was for the Worshipful Master to entertain the Companies vistitors , who came from all over the world.

Knoghts Templar.

OK i give up, whats a knoght?

Originally posted by Bondi

Originally posted by akilles
Blah Blah Blah Blah

Well, I didn't see this in this thread , so WTF? Checked twice and saw no edits. Am I missing something here?

Originally posted by akilles

Hmmm, Egypt had secret societies. They called it the Mystery Religion, then swore up and down it wasn't religious.

No, actually they didn't have a "mystery religion" that they "swore up and down it wasn't religious."

All religion is based upon mystery; without mystery, religion would be meaningless. Christianity is based upon the mystery of the Incarnation. Islam is based upon the mystery of prophecy. Judaism is based upon the mystery of the law. And the ancient Egyptian religion was based upon the mystery of nature rejuvenating itself.

I thought everybody already knew all of that.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

Knoghts Templar.

OK i give up, whats a knoght?

Its a Knight thats not very good at his job?

Whats the Mystery of the Incarnation?

Is that if Jesus ever considered suicide?

Man, THEN we'd really be screwed...

Just as you said, when you entered Freemasonry "I am in the dark", I will show you, that you still are.
The term Freemasonryis not based on the root word 'masonry', but rather the ancient term 'Phree Messen', meaning Children of Light.

Deny it, call it an interesting coincidence, or just say 'How dare you suggest our order is not descended from brick layers!'

from: dictionary.reference.com...

mys·ter·y:

6. A religious truth that is incomprehensible to reason and knowable only through divine revelation.

7.
a. An incident from the life of Jesus, especially the Incarnation, Passion, Crucifixion, or Resurrection, of particular importance for redemption.
b. One of the 15 incidents from the lives of Jesus or the Blessed Virgin Mary, such as the Annunciation or the Ascension, serving in Roman Catholicism as the subject of meditation during recitation of the rosary.

from: dictionary.reference.com...

in·car·na·tion

2. Incarnation Christianity. The doctrine that the Son of God was conceived in the womb of Mary and that Jesus is true God and true man.

Originally posted by billmcelligott

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

Knoghts Templar.

OK i give up, whats a knoght?

Its a Knight thats not very good at his job?

I thought it might be something you tie in a rope.

then again it might knoght be.

[edit on 10-2-2005 by stalkingwolf]

I, Axeman, of my own free will and accord, in presence of Almighty God and this worshipful lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, dedicated to God and held forth to the holy order of St. John, do hereby and hereon most sincerely promise and swear, that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal any part or parts, art or arts, point or points of the secrets, arts, and mysteries of ancient Freemasonry, which I have received, am about to receive, or may hereafter be instructed in, to any person or persons in the known world, except it be a true and lawful brother Mason, or within the body of a just and lawfully constituted lodge of such; and not unto him or unto them whom I shall hear so to be, but unto him and them only whom I shall find so to be after strict trial and due examination, or lawful information.

"Furthermore, do I promise and swear, that I will not write, print, stamp, stain, hew, cut, carve, indent, paint, or engrave it on anything movable or immovable under the whole canopy of Heaven, whereby or whereon the least letter, figure, character, mark, stain, shadow, or resemblance may become legible or intelligible to myself or to any other person in the known world, whereby the secrets of Masonry may be unlawfully obtained through my unworthiness. To all of which I do most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without the least equivocation, mental reservation, or self-evasion of mind in me whatever; binding myself under no less penalty than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same."

Why not inquire of the Master by what authority he was about to administer an oath, and by what authority he expected and required you to take it?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Bondi

Originally posted by akilles
Blah Blah Blah Blah

Well, I didn't see this in this thread , so WTF? Checked twice and saw no edits. Am I missing something here?

Sorry, referencing local terminology, means what ever has come out of their mouth. In example;

This chap was saying to me how he went to the hospital blah blah, and he met this girl, blah blah blah.

Why not inquire of the Master by what authority he was about to administer an oath, and by what authority he expected and required you to take it?

The master of each Lodge is elected by the members of that Lodge each year. It is his job to act according to the accepted rules and in the interest of the Lodge members. What we commonly call Democracy.

You take the oath after you have requested admittance into the Lodge and of your own free will. As you seem to have access to the ritual check the Masters direction before the candidate takes the oath.

Originally posted by akilles
Whats the Mystery of the Incarnation?

Is that if Jesus ever considered suicide?

Do you even know what "incarnation" means?

Just as you said, when you entered Freemasonry "I am in the dark", I will show you, that you still are.

Well, after reading your posts, I, and probably everyone else, feel pretty safe in making the call on who's really in the dark. Anyone still confused need only to consider your next comment:

The term Freemasonryis not based on the root word 'masonry', but rather the ancient term 'Phree Messen', meaning Children of Light.

Deny it, call it an interesting coincidence, or just say 'How dare you suggest our order is not descended from brick layers!'

What we know that you don't seem to, is that our fraternity was founded by 4 Lodges of stonemasons who were created by the Masons Company of London. Furthermore, the regius Manuscript and Gothic Constitutions, which were the rules and regulations of the old Masonic Lodges, some still being in existence, are concerned with the organization of a guild of stonemasons. Since you got this most basic and fundamental part of understanding what Freemasonry is completely wrong, I would bet you aren't qualified to speak on anything else concerning it. But, hey, that's just me...

You call yourself Masonic Light, and then when I say the term Freemasonry originated from an Ancient Egyptian (a common ancestor for many things in Masonry) phrase meaning 'Children of the Light', yet you say there is substance to what I am saying?

As anyone can see, I do know something, mainly the oath for the Entered Apprentice...

Originally posted by akilles
As anyone can see, I do know something, mainly the oath for the Entered Apprentice...

Anyone can see that you know how to copy and paste from anti-Masonic websites and put my name in it. Congratulations. My question is, [size=10]SO WHAT?!?!

Man, this is getting irritating...

I have an idea for you akilles:

[edit on 2/11/05 by The Axeman]

Well, Axeman, defy me and say that isn't the oath.

Well it seems time for one of my wonderful sayings.

" You can take an Ass to the light, but you can not make it shine"

Originally posted by akilles
Well, Axeman, defy me and say that isn't the oath.

I don't know if it is or not to be honest. But if it is, I would take it without reservation.

I defy you out of principle.

[edit on 2/11/05 by The Axeman]