The flat earth conspiracy

bye turbonium1

Because of "Your" complete failure to prove anything about how a flat earth / Sun could possibility exist I'm going to give up on you.
You won't answer my questions and only want to argue about planes.

Turb spend your 1 night out of 3 watching your friends Globebusters

But to give you some education.
Response to Globebusters - The Earth Still Isn't Flat

If this isn't proof, I don't know what is....

a reply to: elevatedone

As sad as it is, that is literally on par with any proof ever presented by flat earthers. Much better than Turbo's "airplane instruments are 'in on it'" explanation.

a reply to: elevatedone

😃😂

originally posted by: neutronflux
Hello. VSI does not measure “level”. VSI measures deviation from a maintaining a altitude. So. If the jet stays cruising at 30,000 feet. And the internal pressure of the VSI indicator stays equal to the outside static pressure, the VSI is going to not indicate a change in vertical speed.

Wrong. Again, read the actual sources explaining this...

The vertical speed indicator (VSI) is one of the six basic flight instruments in an airplane. The VSI tells the pilot whether the airplane is climbing, descending, or level during the flight. The vertical speed indicator gives rate information in feet per minute (fpm) for the climb or descent. For example, the desired climb or descent might be accomplished at 500 feet per minute, which the VSI indicator reports. The vertical speed indicator is a convenient instrument for accuracy and stability of the plane's movements, especially for instrument pilots.

Coupled with the other five basic instruments (airspeed, attitude indicator, altimeter, turn coordinator, and heading indicator) the VSI gives the pilot a good indication of the airplane's status.

www.thebalancecareers.com...


The variometer, also known as the vertical speed indicator (VSI) or the vertical velocity indicator (VVI), is the pitot-static instrument used to determine whether or not an aircraft is flying in level flight. The vertical speed specifically shows the rate of climb or the rate of descent, which is measured in feet per minute or meters per second.

en.wikipedia.org...

Vertical Speed Indicator (VSI)

The VSI, which is sometimes called a vertical velocity indicator (VVI), indicates whether the aircraft is climbing,
descending, or in level flight. The rate of climb or descent is indicated in feet per minute (fpm). If properly calibrated, the VSI indicates zero in level flight.

www.faa.gov...

[page 8-7)


Unlike you, I provide sources to back up my arguments.

Obviously, the altitude changes in an ascent or descent, just like the altitude remains steady in level flight. Why wouldn't it? Trying to twist it into something else, simply because your argument fails to hold, will not change the truth, or the facts.

Again, according to the FAA itself...

The VSI, which is sometimes called a vertical velocity indicator (VVI), indicates whether the aircraft is climbing,
descending, or in level flight. The rate of climb or descent is indicated in feet per minute (fpm). If properly calibrated, the VSI indicates zero in level flight.

Is that clear enough?

The VSI clearly - as the sources state - DOES measure level flight, directly in flights.

edit on 9-4-2020 by turbonium1 because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

It is the only correct answer. You do not have a different, or correct one.

It is not a 'correct answer', that's the problem. You cannot plug in ball-Earth latitude/longitude lines on a non ball-Earth planet, and claim 'it doesn't work', as if it's supposed to mean anything!

I've shown the evidence from plane instruments proving Earth is flat, and you make up nonsense excuses about level being NOT level, because a non-existent magical force within Earth gives false readings on plane instruments!

I've shown you that level IS level, that the VSI measures level in air, using air pressure, and if you are too scared to admit the truth, it's your problem, nobody else's. Facts are facts, whether you like it or not.

a reply to: turbonium1

You

The vertical speed indicator (VSI) is one of the six basic flight instruments in an airplane. The VSI tells the pilot whether the airplane is climbing, descending, or level during the flight.

It doesn’t detect climb. It detects changes in atmospheric pressure it is calibrated to read as vertical speed.

So if the aircraft is flaying at 4.36 atmospheric psi the altimeter is calibrated to read as 30,000 there is no difference or change in pressure between the “static” reference pressure and the internal pressure of the VSI, then there is no vertical speed.

How Does A Vertical Speed Indicator Work?

www.boldmethod.com...

How It Works: Differential Pressure
So here's how it all works. Let's say you start climbing. As you climb, your static pressure decreases, and as it decreases immediately in the diaphragm. But the instrument casing is a different story. Since the calibrated leak lets air out slowly, it creates a higher pressure in the casing than the diaphragm. When that happens, it creates a pressure differential, the diaphragm is squeezed down, and the gears connected to the VSI needle make it move up.

And the greater the pressure differential, the more the needle moves up.

What happens when you descend? The exact opposite.

Again. If the aircraft stays at 30,000 feet, there is no change in air pressure. No change in air pressure, there is nothing to drive the VSI which works off differential pressure to show vertical climb.

originally posted by: captainpudding
a reply to: elevatedone

As sad as it is, that is literally on par with any proof ever presented by flat earthers. Much better than Turbo's "airplane instruments are 'in on it'" explanation.

No, the 'airplane instruments are in on it' argument is YOURS, not mine. I'm saying the instruments ARE accurately measuring things, whereas you keep claiming they are reading something else entirely NOT there at all!

You think level flight means NOT level, that level actually means a slight 'curve', which is completely ridiculous.

According to your ball-shaped Earth, there is supposed to be 'curvature' around the entire Earth. You claim this 'curvature' is measured, to be about 8 inches per mile, squared. That is YOUR claim, but you pretend it doesn't matter, that it's not relevant to the issue, that it magically 'works', on flights, without knowing it, without accounting for it on any flights, without pilots even being aware of it's existence, without flight schools ever teaching it, or saying it exists!!

Why, if 'curvature' DID exist, would it not be taught in flight schools, or ANY schools, or even once DOCUMENTED?

Everything else is clearly documented about flight, how to fly, what to do, what to adjust for, why it's adjusted for, what the instruments measure on flights, how they measure them, and so on.

Why are there NO documents about 'curvature' in flight schools, if it actually exists?

You've made all these claims about 'curvature', that planes are flying around 'curvature', but it's all crap, not taught in flight schools, nor a single document on it, that actually MENTIONS it's existence, let alone what it's supposed to measure at!

Are you serious? This is a complete joke, and you know it!

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

The vertical speed indicator (VSI) is one of the six basic flight instruments in an airplane. The VSI tells the pilot whether the airplane is climbing, descending, or level during the flight.

It doesn’t detect climb. It detects changes in atmospheric pressure it is calibrated to read as vertical speed.

So if the aircraft is flaying at 4.36 atmospheric psi the altimeter is calibrated to read as 30,000 there is no difference or change in pressure between the “static” reference pressure and the internal pressure of the VSI, then there is no vertical speed.

How Does A Vertical Speed Indicator Work?

www.boldmethod.com...

How It Works: Differential Pressure
So here's how it all works. Let's say you start climbing. As you climb, your static pressure decreases, and as it decreases immediately in the diaphragm. But the instrument casing is a different story. Since the calibrated leak lets air out slowly, it creates a higher pressure in the casing than the diaphragm. When that happens, it creates a pressure differential, the diaphragm is squeezed down, and the gears connected to the VSI needle make it move up.

And the greater the pressure differential, the more the needle moves up.

What happens when you descend? The exact opposite.

Again. If the aircraft stays at 30,000 feet, there is no change in air pressure. No change in air pressure, there is nothing to drive the VSI which works off differential pressure to show vertical climb.

When it stays at 30,000 feet, it is at level flight, because there is no change in air pressure, that's correct.

But you claim planes are flying around a ball, in a CURVED path, which would be a DESCENT, which is NOT a level flight, and if it was NOT a level flight, then it would NOT be MEASURED as level, it would be measured as a descent, by the VSI.

Your 'curvature' requires a plane to descent throughout a flight, at about 5 feet per minute, to maintain altitude.

There is no way to follow a curved surface without curving above it to MATCH the surface, that's the reality here.

Planes do not descend above Earth, they fly LEVEL above Earth, it is that simple. The instruments MEASURE it as a level flight, which is NOT a curved flight.


But when you cannot show a single DOCUMENT on it, presenting 'curvature' of Earth, existing, it is obviously made up nonsense, and nothing else.

Claiming the Earth is round, that 'curvature' exists, that planes fly around 'curvature', and cannot even show a single document that supports it, how would anyone ever believe such nonsense, is utterly baffling.

Especially when all our instruments measure it as a flat surface, a LEVEL surface, when flying level above it throughout the time, it is absolutely clear, conclusive proof.

You say there's no proof of Earth being flat, and after proof is shown, you make up ridiculous excuses for it, and suggest level means NOT level, that instruments measure 'level for Earth's curvature', that 'gravity' makes planes fly around a ball Earth, while reading it as 'level' on instruments, an argument so foolish, so goofy, it's beyond words!

a reply to: turbonium1

You

When it stays at 30,000 feet, it is at level flight, because there is no change in air pressure, that's correct.

Flight surfaces are constantly positioning to maintaining an altitude the altimeter corresponds to a pressure despite cross winds, down drafts, up drafts, and turbulence.

You

But you claim planes are flying around a ball

No. The autopilot or pilot maintains an altitude the altimeter is calibrated to read in feet derived from a pressure.

You

in a CURVED path,

If the pilot / autopilot wants to stay in the pressure band of 4.36 pounds that corresponds to 30,000 feet.

You

which would be a DESCENT,

No. It follows the arc of the earth to maintain the pressure band of 4.36 psi that corresponds to 30,000 feet. There is a difference. And that is in a perfectly static system. Real life. The auto pilot will send the jet a little low. Then the jet corrects back to 30,000 feet. Then the jet might drift high. Then the autopilot corrects down to 30,000 feet. All the while fighting cross winds, up drafts, down drafts, and turbulence.

You

which is NOT a level flight.

Level flight as quoted by definition to you is maintaining an altitude. That altitude is based off pressure as sea level as zero feet. Not an actual distance from the bottom of the plane to the terrain below.

Level flight by definition in not the actual pitch of the jet.

You

MEASURED as level,

The altimeter and VMI don’t measure “level”. They measure pressure and a difference in pressure. They are calibrated to feed in feet. And feet vs time.

There is no way to follow a curved surface without curving above it to MATCH the surface, that's the reality here.

The altimeter doesn’t give a @uck about surface. It only reads a pressure and is calibrated to show feet.

Planes do not descend above Earth, they fly LEVEL above Earth, it is that simple.

Wrong. The pilot / autopilot stay in a pressure band the altimeter converts to feet that results in flying in an arc.

But when you cannot show a single DOCUMENT on it, presenting 'curvature' of Earth, existing, it is obviously made up nonsense, and nothing else.

What’s a glob then?

Or how about sun set and sun rise times.

Or how about the sun still sets over the horizon when seen at 30,000 feet.

Or the fact if you fly old school, the North Star is not seen while flying at night in Australia. Or the way GPS satellites have to be stationed around the earth because the earth curve blocks signals.

a reply to: turbonium1

You

Especially when all our instruments measure it as a flat surface, a LEVEL surface,

I Missed one. What instrument on a jet’s controls is actually sending out a signal to measure the surface of the earth?

Radar horizon

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The radar horizon is a critical area of performance for aircraft detection systems that is defined by the distance at which the radar beam rises enough above the Earth's surface to make detection of a target at low level impossible. It is associated with the low elevation region of performance, and its geometry depends on terrain, radar height, and signal processing. This is associated with the notions of radar shadow, the clutter zone, and the clear zone.

Airborne objects can exploit the radar shadow zone and clutter zone to avoid radar detection by using a technique called nap-of-the-earth navigation.[1]

originally posted by: neutronflux
Level flight as quoted by definition to you is maintaining an altitude.

You defined 'level flight' as being 'level to Earth's curvature', while they have defined level flight as flying at altitude - but you think this somehow supports your argument?!?

Only YOU claimed that level flight is flying level to curvature....they did not make such a claim, in any way!

By their definition, level flight has nothing to do with 'being level to curvature'.

Your whole argument is based on a claim that level flight is flying 'level to Earth's curvature'. And now, you've proven yourself wrong - so well done!

Air pressure is in gradients, or layers, above Earth, and instruments on planes, like the VSI, use air pressure to find level flight, being not as ascent, nor a descent, while flying in air.

They find level flight, stay at level flight, which is a flight at altitude, as their 'definition' states, so it still fits with my argument, anyway. Not with yours, obviously.

If they thought level flight was based on 'curvature', they'd have said so, but since they did not mention 'curvature', why do you still claim 'curvature' has anything to do with level flight? Why are you lying about it?

a reply to: turbonium1

what air pressure Turb?
how is the Air attached to the flat earth? Not gravity, not magnetic forces you said they don't exists.

why does air just stay on top of a flat earth?

a reply to: turbonium1

Hi Trub,

in Flat Land how do you explain curved water?

a reply to: turbonium1

You line.

Only YOU claimed that level flight is flying level to curvature....they did not make such a claim, in any way!

Quote where I made such a statement.

Level flight is maintaining altitude despite external forces. Level light is not the actual pitch of the jet.

Now...

Answer the question.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

Especially when all our instruments measure it as a flat surface, a LEVEL surface,

I Missed one. What instrument on a jet’s controls is actually sending out a signal to measure the surface of the earth?

Radar horizon

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The radar horizon is a critical area of performance for aircraft detection systems that is defined by the distance at which the radar beam rises enough above the Earth's surface to make detection of a target at low level impossible. It is associated with the low elevation region of performance, and its geometry depends on terrain, radar height, and signal processing. This is associated with the notions of radar shadow, the clutter zone, and the clear zone.

Airborne objects can exploit the radar shadow zone and clutter zone to avoid radar detection by using a technique called nap-of-the-earth navigation.[1]

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: turbonium1

what air pressure Turb?
how is the Air attached to the flat earth? Not gravity, not magnetic forces you said they don't exists.

why does air just stay on top of a flat earth?

Because the firmament contains it, same as it contains our oceans, and everything above Earth, too. That's the point - Earth, whether you believe it or not - is a fully contained environment. I know it sounds a bit like we're living in a big fishbowl, but that's how it is. Fortunately, God created such a vast planet, even today we haven't explored much of it, especially within the oceans.

So the air is level, like Earth's surface is level. Air does not 'attach' itself to the Earth, it's density lowers it to Earth, and high above Earth. It is less dense at higher altitudes, of course.

Air itself is level, above the level Earth. The optimal flight is level, of course, because air flows level across, above the Earth. Spirit levels often use an air bubble to measure for level. We can use a spirit level on the 80th floor of a high-rise, to measure level, like planes at that same altitude could use the VSI to measure level, by air pressure.

If we had a 230 foot long spirit level, to represent the size of a 757, raised it into the air, at any altitude, and adjusted it until the bubble measured level, it would be no different than a 757 at level flight, except that planes move along while they keep measuring for level flight.

But the important part to remember, is that a plane 230 feet long, can only measure 230 feet at a time, the length of the plane itself, while in air. Like a spirit level 3 feet long, can only measure 3 feet at a time for level. To measure a 30 foot floor, you must use the level 10 times, across it.

So a plane is, in essence, measuring level flight continually, in 230 foot sections, like a 3 foot long spirit level on a 30 foot long floor, only with much more advanced methods/technologies!

Therefore, if curvature DID exist, at 8 inches per mile (squared), or 8 inches per 5280 feet, is one inch of curvature per 660 feet.

A plane 230 feet long, measures for level flight over it's 230 foot length, over and over again, as it flies along.

The 230 foot long plane is measuring over about 1/3 inch of 'curvature', at a time, and measures another, separate 230 foot length, over another, separate 1/3 inch of 'curvature', and on and on the same way, throughout the flight.

There is no possible way to measure level flight by any supposed 'curvature', or 'arcs of air pressure, curved like Earth', because level is measured over 230 feet of air, and nothing beyond, like a 3 foot spirit level on a 30 foot floor.

Level flight is not a single measurement, it is done continually, over and over again, while flying along. It could not take 1/3 inch of curvature into account, when measuring level is a continual measurement, over and over again, within air.

This proves the Earth is flat, beyond a doubt, and if you cannot accept the truth, then you probably will never accept it. But at least if you know it, you may finally come to accept it, someday.

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: turbonium1

Hi Trub,

in Flat Land how do you explain curved water?

Which curve explains your Ball Land - concave or convex?

Liquids can curve either up OR down, so how does that help your case? It doesn't. This is entirely irrelevant to the issue of a flat Earth, or your Ball Earth. It is a specific phenomenon where various liquids - not just water - when placed within small containers, like a test tube, for instance, attract to either the container, or to each other, and create either a convex or concave surface, which is known as a 'meniscus'.

It's well known that water curves in a test tube, so what is your point?

Liquids curve up or down, in such conditions, and it certainly does not support your Ball Earth argument, nor does it oppose the flat Earth argument. This is simply a phenomenon of molecular attraction, where liquids contained in small areas become attracted to the solid material of the container, or become attracted to each other, depending on the material of the container.


It is also known that water only curves in small areas, and does NOT curve in any larger areas, at all. That's why water only curves under those very specific conditions, where normally it is level, and flat.