Breaking News: British PM Theresa May to make major announcement (Early Elections)

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: TrueBrit

I hear every word you are saying brit, I really do.

The fact is that there is no alternative.

To actually be out of the EU means we must be outside the framework of the EU courts, single market and every other body that comes under that banner.

I agree with this point entirely. That is not to say however, that our government ought to ignore elements of the EU which have done us good, and fail to reproduce them in OUR law, without reference to, or permission from the EU.

All this hard and soft Brexit stuff is just a ruse to dilute the referendum result, anything less than a hard Brexit is no brexit at all.

The Lib Dems are vehemently opposed to any loosening of our ties to the EU, Labour are also, but being a little bit cute with their words.

This is fundamentally incorrect. I would agree with you about the Lib Dems, but Labour are prepared to enact Brexit, purely because it is the will of the people, the very people that Corbyn wishes to represent. His willingness to carry out the instructions of the people is not in any doubt. Never once has Corbyn declared his intent to see the British exit derailed, were he to become leader. His statements have, in fact, been absolutely to the contrary. He has stated on many occasions, that his intention is to do as the people have instructed, and that he believes the UK can be better off outside the EU, which of course, he is entirely correct about.

Ukip aren't going to do anything except talk rubbish and fight among themselves.

Agreed.

I want to be free and clear of the EU, I don't want there to be any regulatory or financial ties between us anymore, that's what I voted for and, may my tongue turn black for saying it, the Tories are the only ones who look like they can deliver.

I would agree about regulatory ties, but I think wishing for a lack of financial involvement in the EU would be somewhat shortsighted. As our closest neighbours, it will be necessary for any products we manufacture or otherwise produce, to have a position in the market place which is the EU, otherwise any economy we could muster up would fall, any manufacturing we sought to rekindle would die before catching light. Think about it... There always were and always will be some financial involvement with continental nations, even if those involvements are worked out on a company to company, or nation to nation basis. It is, therefore, flawed to expect that we will never have to interact with those nations on matters financial, or indeed with the EU as the management centre for those nations. Simply put, that would be financially unworkable, no matter what Theresa May thinks of the situation.

As for the dangers of their baseline settings being about corporatism, anti union legislation etc. You are dead right. But in years, we have the chance to reverse that, if we allow the others to screw up our exit from the EU, we might never have the chance to be free again.

I would argue that it is imperative that these baselines are never threatened even slightly. The people must be protected at all costs, from ANY knock on effects, loss of jobs, loss of services, loss of income or loss of rights and access thereto. This is far more important than any other consideration, just at the moment. The Tories have placed us, the people, in a position where we CAN have the best of both worlds. We can be out of the EU, AND have a government which is aware of the proper position it must have relative to the people, that is, a slave to them, not their master. This can come to pass, but only if, having secured the fact of the British Exit from the EU, we protect that progress from the very animals whose behaviour threatens a comfortable and satisfactory result at ground level. There must be no necessity to clean up, no permission for the people to be assaulted and embuggered by the leadership, ignored as they have been all to often by Tory administrative callousness. We will have freedom from the EU, and we MUST have freedom from corporatism as well, in order for Brexit to be anything else than a good idea in principle, which nonetheless salts the earth beneath our feet.

Twenty years ago, I'd have laughed so hard at the idea that I would ever put my cross in that box, now though, I can truly see no alternative at all.

Then with the greatest respect Sprocket, it might be time to get yourself to the opticians, because if you vote Tory, they will destroy this nation, they will gut its underbelly, they will cut off at the knees the rights and fundamental protections offered to the worker, and our childrens children will curse us all, from the barren husk that this society will become under their continued direction.

Again I say, take another look at Corbyns Labour. They will not jump into bed with the Tories in the event of a nearly hung parliament. They will not permit the rights of workers and the defenceless to be violated or reduced in the slightest. Their dog in this fight is the people, and that is a fundamental substructure which makes Corbyns Labour a viable alternative, where the Blairite version is not.

Well, a Geeral Election it is.

Well, let's see what the naysayers have to say. Let them elaborate on their vision.

Clearly, the negative, divisive ad knee-jerk reaction from political opponents reveals they are worried, but the British electorate is a sophisticated lot, so we'll see.

That said, just listened to Corbyn and he actualy sounded sensible for a change.

It is all eyes on Labour policy now - must be tempting for them to ask the 47 million people who (apparently) voted remain to scupper brexit completely . If they did , the tories would be screwed ! He's tempted , he looks and sounded it anyway ..
He was for remain when the referendum happened , so ...? It'll be interesting at least

a reply to: TrueBrit

As usual, a well thought out reply from you


With regards to Labour's position on our relationship with the EU.

This from November.... The Labour leader told the Sunday Mirror he would be demanding Theresa May seeks to keep Britain in the EU’s single market and may vote against triggering Article 50 if she does not.


We also have Lisa Nandy and Kier Starmer demanding EU courts continue to hold sway to prevent what they see as the potential Tory crusade against the workers.


I dislike a lot about Corbyn's party, but rather less than Blair's one. You can make of that what you will


Weighing the pros and cons of all this, I firmly believe that overall, in terms of the next twenty years, an enhanced Tory majority will be less damaging for my kids futures than any of the alternative scenarios.


I am also pretty certain, it will be the only time in my life that I will vote for them...But as much as it goes against much of what my life has been about (I was an active member of the RMT for 20 years, for instance), vote for them I will.

Now, with regards to economic ties to the EU, I meant in terms of exchange rate fiddles, tax rules, subscriptions to EU organisations and so forth, I was not in any way talking about trade.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: Wearedone

Strategic. No doubt she will win a landslide. It will give her a lot of authority. I said ages ago she would be Prime Minister for a long time. As it stands there is no effective opposition. That is very sad.

Anthing but....................... Corbyn is going to walk this one. He's going to be our next PM for sure

originally posted by: ZIPMATT
It is all eyes on Labour policy now - must be tempting for them to ask the 47 million people who (apparently) voted remain to scupper brexit completely . If they did , the tories would be screwed ! He's tempted , he looks and sounded it anyway ..
He was for remain when the referendum happened , so ...? It'll be interesting at least

47 million voted Remain?

The actual number is 16 million (ish).

I don't think the country even has an electorate of 47 million...

a reply to: Ohanka

The Referendum Election statistics:

Total Eligible Electorate: 46,500,001.
Remain: 16,141,241 (48.1%).
Leave: 17,410,742 (51.9%).
Turnout: 72.2%

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: Wearedone

Strategic. No doubt she will win a landslide. It will give her a lot of authority. I said ages ago she would be Prime Minister for a long time. As it stands there is no effective opposition. That is very sad.

Anthing but....................... Corbyn is going to walk this one. He's going to be our next PM for sure

Lol, what planet are you from Bruv? Surely you have your finger on the pulse enough to know this UK patient is Tory Blue right now. It is not what I want. I would vote for Jeremy and stay in the EU. That is what I want.

There is a slim chance that if Labour and Libs got together and said they would take us back into the EU. If every UK citizen who wanted to stay in actually got off their posteriors and voted then it could happen. How likely is that to happen? The UK is just not that passionate; I wish we were.

As it stands I have a lot of respect for Theresa May. I like her as a person, but we are on two different sides of the fence and her party's policies are keeping me in poverty and total continued anxiety that makes me feel insecure financially on a constant basis.

It only ever rains for me in the UK, lol.

a reply to: Revolution9

Sorry just couldn't help it lol

Well, well, well.
Some good posts here chaps.

Shoot me down in flames, but I'm going to do what I have always done...I'm not voting. Only did twice ever in my almost 40 years of being eligible. Once I peel away all the layers of the onion, I just cannot put my 'x' next to any of them, no matter what side of the House they sit on.

They are all in it for themselves and as corrupt as each other.

This is certainly going to be an interesting election........I might revert back here if I find myself tempted to put pencil to paper.....until then, unless the system changes, I'll just get on with my life and carry on helping people who need it on a personal level.

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

I can understand that.

Voting for any of them can feel like giving your consent for them to keep on with all the idiotic games they play.

Not voting is a legitimate form of protest too imo.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Revolution9

Sorry just couldn't help it lol

Not at all, you are welcome. Theresa May is a formidable politician. She is very bright and intelligent. She is populist in many ways and that is the mood of Britain and U.S right now.

Mean while my waistline is going to get even thinner if Theresa is so ruthless in her defense of the goodies in the pantry that I can't even have at tea time, lol.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: TrueBrit

As usual, a well thought out reply from you

With regards to Labour's position on our relationship with the EU.

This from November.... The Labour leader told the Sunday Mirror he would be demanding Theresa May seeks to keep Britain in the EU’s single market and may vote against triggering Article 50 if she does not.

That is true. However, what May and cabinet fail to realise, is that severing that particular tie, would be disasterous for the country, and for our economy in a way that a political severance from the EU would not. The EU single market and access to it, are perhaps the only things about the EU that, left to their own devices, and unmolested by corporate greed, could have been beneficial to our nation in some absolutely paramount ways. Unfortunately, the campaigns which saw the Brexit issue argued over, or more appropriately obfuscated about intensely by all comers, entirely failed to make proper distinctions between our membership of the European Union, and the access to the single market, which are two separate issues entirely, despite protestations to the contrary from some quarters.

Could we survive without it? Perhaps. But only if we were prepared to accept worse conditions than we currently "enjoy", without any particular benefit or regaining of sovereign freedom.

We also have Lisa Nandy and Kier Starmer demanding EU courts continue to hold sway to prevent what they see as the potential Tory crusade against the workers.

Indeed, and you know why that is all too well. It is because if the Tories control our exit, they will make sure that the people do not have a say in which laws might need to be copy pasted into our statute books, to make up the shortfall in protection for said workers. They will then, because it is beyond them to refrain from doing so, turn our workforce into virtual slaves to a greater extent than we already are, blame all failures on the public sector, while secretly being the main driver for those failures, leading people to accept a larger sell off of public sector work to major corporate entities, than has ever been seen in this country, and to assume that the reason for the sell off is the inherent inefficiency of public sector workers. You and I know better, but can you say the same of the voting public in the broader sense? I do not have any faith in that what so ever. The fact is that Kier Starmer and Lisa Nandy have the wrong idea. The answer to a Tory threat to workers rights, pensions, and issues pertaining thereto, is to ensure that the Tories cannot threaten these things, because they have no power to do so, to whit, they must not govern over this period, and ought to be kept out of power for as long as possible, to ensure that working people, the backbone of our nation, are always protected from their predatory attitudes.

I dislike a lot about Corbyn's party, but rather less than Blair's one. You can make of that what you will

Weighing the pros and cons of all this, I firmly believe that overall, in terms of the next twenty years, an enhanced Tory majority will be less damaging for my kids futures than any of the alternative scenarios.

How have you come to this understanding? Do you think a future in which your child has no right to time off for sickness, for rest and relaxation, no time to bond with his or her child when the time comes, no right to expect a pension, no right to do anything for every day of the rest of their lives, but work harder than you did, for less money, while paying higher rents and mortgages, is something to wish upon them? Because that is the Tory way. It is a perfect method for keeping the majority too tired and apathetic to fight back against econo-fascistic elements in society.

Do you believe this sort of tyranny is better for your childrens future, than anything Corbyn could cook up? If so, why?

I am also pretty certain, it will be the only time in my life that I will vote for them...But as much as it goes against much of what my life has been about (I was an active member of the RMT for 20 years, for instance), vote for them I will.

Now, with regards to economic ties to the EU, I meant in terms of exchange rate fiddles, tax rules, subscriptions to EU organisations and so forth, I was not in any way talking about trade.

Ah, and therein lies the crux of the matter. Trade.

Trade with our continental neighbours is bound up entirely in the rest of what you referred to! You cannot even begin to discuss one, absent reference to the other, because they are bound together.

a reply to: Wearedone

It's got nothing to do with 'brexit' really. It's just a call for a general election to take place as eary as June 8th.

Lets just hope 'Labour' DO NOT get in. They are the last party we want in charge, after what they let happen before...

Can someone explain to me how the British government works in this case? Why is there a way to stage a legal coup?

a reply to: TrueBrit


Here is the dilemma....

I do not want a Dickensian society that is cold hearted to the most vulnerable and has no rights like SOME torys would like.

But I don’t want heavy socialism, a country weakend in international power and influence and one willing to open what remains of our borders to the dregs of Africa and the middle east which is was Corbyn offers.

Nor do I want New Labour neocons who live in a land of reckless spending, war and bureaucracy.

And leaving the EU is non negotiable so the lib dems are ruled out.

At heart I am a conservative. But the cuts have gone too FAR. I cannot morally support the cuts to disability and schools. Defence, international aid, high speed rail and the monarchy should be cut before disability and education. Not to mention tax rises and crack down on tax evaders should have been considered first. The Slashing of ESA and PIP is criminal.

A lot of people were complacent during the referendum on the remain side, and feel they didn't get their
points of view out there, they though they would win, the poll said so..
It won't be the case this time. Not by a long shot, this will be far more messy.

I'm wondering what lies the Tories will stick on a bus this time?

Also The current Tory election fraud hasn't been sorted out yet either.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: Wearedone

It's got nothing to do with 'brexit' really. It's just a call for a general election to take place as eary as June 8th.

Lets just hope 'Labour' DO NOT get in. They are the last party we want in charge, after what they let happen before...

What happened before? If by Iraq sure we dont want that.
If you mean the great financial crash and money issues, you should look at the Tories record, they've doubled the debt whilst cutting from just about everywhere, they were meant to be balancing the books, they done the opposite.. By design.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Access to the single market yes, membership no.

I don't think the future is nearly so bleak Brit.
20 years of Tories might see that dystopian vision realised but 5 more years no.
getting out of The EU properly will benefit us in the long term, screwing it up will leave us in limbo that will cause untold grief.


The vast majority of our worker's rights came from unions not the EU.

People need to re learn that and they just might once Brexit is done and dusted but won't ever as long as we are still arguing about whether we are in or out.

SprocketUK:

Clever move in my opinion, she is making the main thrust of the election about Brexit.

Absolutely! It is about Brexit. Let's be clear here, no matter how strongly you feel against the Tories, Theresa May and her cabinet (excepting a couple she could do with getting rid of) are the strongest leadership we have for Britain. May especially imbues real statesmanship-like leadership, and we are lucky to have her, because we need that leadership.

No other party in Britain comes close to the Tories for leadership, all other parties are bit players in a greater drama. This is about country, not party. This is about having the right people in the right place to deliver the right Brexit deal. other parties have sought to derail the deal, preferring Britain to sink rather than float successfully on its own determination. Remember, Britain did not vote against the European people, Britain voted against an hateful ideology that is the EU. The EU is corporatism unmasked.

TrueBrit:

However, it might alter the methodology applied to making it happen, which, if this current mob are anything to go by, would be a bloody good thing.

Yes, it would alter the methodology and it would alter the kind of Brexit Britain gets. I understand the social principles you have in your heart, there are many that I share, having experienced the hardships of unemployment and being thrown on the scrapheap. I'm working now, however, 4 years of unemployment took its toll on me, but I will not belabour the struggle I went through.

What you want to see in society is the same thing I want, but that kind of society is not for this time, it really isn't, there are too many mindsets around who reject it, and it isn't just the Tories. For you and I to see the society we want, we have to recognise the path to be taken to get there. There is no magic wand that can be waved to bring it about. The society we want is for another, more civilised time, and that is many decades away.

We need the most successful brexit we can achieve, and only the alleged 'corporatist swine' currently leading Britain can set down the 'Brexit' path that will lay the foundations to the society we want. The Tories are the only party more united than the other parties, who are fractured and divided by mindset.

This coming snap election is not about parties, it is about country, it is about what is best for Britain, not just in years to come, but about right now, this present moment. We cannot allow ourselves to think and act in a partisan way, we have to recognise that a strong Britain now, gives us a greater opportunity to change it to the society we want down the line. Any other way is to push it further from our grasp. It may not be a palatable thing to taste, but it is the way.

I hope you can see this and accept it?