Fed up with the Anti British apologists..

Look beneath the surface. Islamic extremism has been supported as a useful tool by our government and others for about one hundred years. It is no surprise that a small minority actually buy into it.

It is not and never will be a huge problem when compared to the coming issues for the West over energy, resources and credit/money.

a reply to: dfnj2015


"I think people need to step back and give the Muslims a little more credit. At some point we have to stop killing the ragheads for Israel. "

You know what, I agree with this.

So politically incorrect it could be a Bernard Manning punchline, and I think instead of "Israel" I'd insert words like "supporting the US oil field policy of divide and conquer" but it doesn't flow so well, and basically amounts to the same thing.

Peace has to start somewhere. So maybe we should stop feeding the fire first.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You seem to be quite an intelligent and nice fellow [I share your musical taste] but there is something amiss with you. And that is rational recognition of danger.
I cannot believe that people in this day and age, with the internet at their fingertips and history plenty, cannot fathom that islam in its most general form is a danger to our culture and way of life.

I am not even talking about terrorism here, I am not worried about islamic terrorism, just like any terrorist group, those in it are a minority. However, just like all terrorist groups there are plenty of silent supporters. Who can go through their whole life, never doing any harm to anyone but they have their beliefs. But you don't have to be a terrorist to HATE our culture and want it to be like yours.

We know for a fact that islam wants to spread. If you don't believe me 1500 years of history will give you a clue. Fortunately it has been averted by brave men who protected our own back in the day.
Now we have PC, wet blankets who invite them in deliberately.

To point blank say that islam is no danger at all and we are all racist to say that, is the most naive statement I have ever heard! It's akin to say "I like Tigers and there are nice Tigers and therefore I want to live among Tigers and will never get hurt." [Sorry Tigers, you are much more noble than islamic fanatics but you make a good example]

The problem is that you don't understand [at all] that islam has already started to take over the western world. There are parts in Britain that if they turned radical, it would take the Military to sort it out.
And it is people like you, with starry eyes and love for all things muslim that make it VERY easy for islam. They would call you 'friend' and pat you on the back and you would believe it. Like a sheep among hungry [but seemingly friendly wolves].

The truth is that if you were in their way, you'd be the first one gone. I always liken people like yo to the Monty Python guy in the Holy Grail who goes up to the crossbearer and says "Let me Lighten your burden" [what a nice but very naive man], the crossbearer says "Oh thank you very much" and hands the cross over, only for the nice but naive man to get crucified instead. [That's you that is]

At some point you have to open your eyes and ears and face reality. Go shopping in Luton or have a stroll down Green Lane in London, saves you an expensive holiday in the Middle east or Pakistan. As a male, I suppose you won't get much trouble [even though they might not like your hair, but because you are male they won't tell you]. I had plenty of trouble when we owned a property there. How? This is a European country, not the Yemen.

You protect one highly undesirable belief system, that makes no secret of hating our western ways and wants to change us to their ways; and yet you'd probably be the first one to have a go at members of the EDL or BNP if they just meet up to have a few beers. Which makes you someone who picks and chooses based on his own belief and not by reality.

I personally don't want Britain to turn into an islamic country. As an Atheist woman with a big gob [speech wise], who likes to dress interestingly, I'd be the first one to be 'taken out' by islam. I want to be free and drive and have my hair open and wear skirts and mingle with men and drink and be able to go out on my own. Something a lot of poor, poor women in these [so called british] areas of muslim faith are already prohibited. Yet you seem to be OK with that. Sod it, it's only women's rights, nothing to see. It's their culture, blablabla, excuses for something we should ACTIVELY [by making laws, give those women English classes and teach them their now British rights, by punishing extreme teachings and deliberate segregation] fight against.

You are not a man that I would trust has the best interest of his fellow females at heart and I wouldn't trust you to protect anyone.
We need men like those in history, who kept islam out!
Those were men.

Thank you historic heroes, you succeeded once and gave us a few hundred years of freedom, but today's wet blankets just haven't got it in them. I apologise for them for mucking up everything you fought for.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Your points would be interesting if it were not for the fact that taken over the last 40 years most terrorist attacks in the UK have been by white males who professed to be Christian - the atrocities they committed outnumber those by those of the Islamic faith by far.

The moral of that is the majority should never be judged by the acts of the minority as Truebrit has eloquently stated.

About a decade ago I knew a little kid who'd been on a school trip to London to visit a Mosque.

It had obviously been set up by well-meaning adults and the kids were very excited as it would be a new experience for them.

They came home rather less enthuastic to learn about different cultures than they'd been before they set out.

A small group of them had been walking along the street near the Mosque when they'd been confronted by some Muslim boys demanding to know what the kids were doing on 'their' turf.

They learnt there and then that there were certain areas of their country where they weren't just unwelcome but would have been forbidden to enter if the locals had any way to enforce that.

I read occasional reports in newspapers about this sort of thing. Since I know someone who experienced it I can't put the stories down to muckraking. It happens.

a reply to: uncommitted


The difference between the two examples you cite, is the 'white terrorist acts' were treated as they should be.

The current terrorist acts, by a religious group, not a color-based race are being compared to earlier 'white acts' -whatever that is- to justify, marginalize, even trivialize. All the while treating 'white terrorism' without qualification.

All in the name of diversity?? Then a pox on diversity.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: uncommitted


The difference between the two examples you cite, is the 'white terrorist acts' were treated as they should be.

The current terrorist acts, by a religious group, not a color-based race are being compared to earlier 'white acts' -whatever that is- to justify, marginalize, even trivialize. All the while treating 'white terrorism' without qualification.

All in the name of diversity?? Then a pox on diversity.

But that is total BS. Could you please show me where terrorist acts (not 'white acts', that's a frickin stupid term because people of any colour can follow either the Islamic or Christian faiths) committed in the UK by ANYONE are being trivialised?

Well this for me was only meant to be a rant rather than a discussion but sadly TrueBrit has shocked me by proving my point of the rant, I'm citing real life with Islam on the door step and he's citing newspaper clippings from a media that has its own agenda's. One thing about that clipping of the ladies on Westminster bridge, where are the men, yes I know its a woman's group but there's no expulsion of males from attending, the reason they are not there would most likely be that they don't share the same sorrow as these ladies.

I also do not like the slant the posts were taking that seemed to cite me as against muslims in general, that was why I laid out who I am and why so that cheap shots like that were not used, again proving my point. I'm not attacking anyone especially normal Muslims, I know many help the homeless but there's just as many who only help Musims, does it matter to me, no I'm only concentrating on the Radicals who regardless of Truebrits or others thoughts are out there spreading hate, but don't worry lads, not in your area so its ok isn't it.

Reminds me of the Swedes who basically rolled over to keep their Liberal values going, where do they live, yup, no where near the immigrants, all in secluded little hamlets so they can waffle away at how its not an issue for them.

Well come in to our major cities and experience just how it IS an issue, Luton is a cess pool of blatant NON diversity, the mainly Pakistani and Muslim council leaders make no secret of 'looking after their own', my brother who was a property manager and surveyor for the council was almost beaten to a pulp because a group of Radical gents had built from their houses on to council and other groups land by erecting extensions to their houses, he was sent to explain that this was not their land and they had to remove the stuff as the National grid also owned the land. Their response was to surround him and threaten to beat his brains in with a brick. All this went to court and the main guy who was doing the threatening had a long list of convictions for violence and pro Radical causes.

The result, suspended sentences and the Mainly Muslim council allowed them to keep the land and carry on building with no buildings regs on it...FACT.

There's your diversity in action with Radicals...We stand, w shy away and we give in, and then we deny they are a growing problem.

Seriously, just how much do we have to see before some people admit there's an issue, maybe not earth shattering in size but its a global trend that in the West has been clearly seen to affect lives in a disgusting hateful manner but hey, its only the news reports from numerous sources, its only rapes and serious aggression but luckily its not on some of your door steps so its only a 'quote 'local issue'.

Rape, child molestation and violence done very openly in the name of Islam by a brutal off shoot, but lets not be worried, its only local..

Jesus....I just hope you never to have to have it happen to you or yours because its way closer than you either believe or choose to ignore..

Never mind, its someone else so its not a problem...

I'm out before I vomit...

a reply to: uncommitted


No argument from me on that score. The 'terms' are used by posters, MSM, and those excusing or saying any that pointing out of these acts creates a generality when similar acts have occurred before...or 'we've survived worse'. On and on.

So forget the terms. label them as one feels comfortable with.

I will find the link later, as I have to go to work, there is a site that shows 500 Christian church have close in the U.K. with over 300 Mosques opened. Many of these churches 'converted' to mosques. It further states, IIRC, that in the next twenty years the Muslim population will match the Christian with 3/4s of the Christian population being OLD.

IF those numbers are correct, the invasion/evolution of the U.K. will turn it into a Muslim nation with nuclear capabilities. I highly doubt, if that trend hold true, that the 'relationship' between the U.S. and the U.K. will remain the same......

IMO, 'diversity' isn't worth the loss of the British culture.

IF it holds to these trends. A scenario that I, for one, will not accept without pushback.

a reply to: uncommitted

Here's the link.


www.floppingaces.net...

a reply to: Hecate666

I do not have starry eyes, and I have no particular love for Islam, any more than I have a particular love for any religion not my own.

But I am precisely as every Briton ought to be, absolutely immune to the common notion of fearing that which does not precisely resemble me, because unlike some people, I am actually watching the right hand in all this. To whit, I am not remotely concerned what the average Joe on the street Muslim is up to. Those individuals are not my enemy. Those individuals are not ruining my nations health services, starving the elderly to death, destroying the lives of the disabled and the mentally ill, short changing the young and the unborn children of tomorrow, forcing older people to retire so much later that many of them will die before ever getting within a sniff of their hard fought for pensions.

The Muslim radicals pose, once again, a statistically irrelevant threat, and one I would rather take the risk of being caught up in the outworking of, than alter any persons access to liberty and freedom, or restrict or permit the profiling of anyone to mitigate that threat. If you do not share my stalwart determination to live in a free country, no matter the personal cost to yourself or the cost to human life of doing so, then perhaps you are not British, but that is PRECISELY what it means to BE British. British people do not look at the rubble of their cities when they have been burned to ash, and despair. They get on with getting their dead buried, and rebuilding their homes and businesses, returning to normal. Look at photographs of the Blitz. Everything is wrecked, broken, blackened, charred, and yet here go the people, about their business, as always, getting on with it, as they say.

THAT is what being British is. So no, I am not naive, I am not a fool. Nor am I afraid. It simply is not in me to be afraid, would not be even were there something genuine and immediate to fear. But there simply is not. There are no bombers over head every night, no threat of actual invasion, just the lie that propagandists and those with narrow minds create in their own heads.

a reply to: nwtrucker

So what? Churches close because the people who count the money don't find them economical due to either maintenance costs, employment costs or lack of attendance. If you don't want churches to close then encourage people to go and worship in them if they feel so inclined - shame it doesn't seem to be the case that they want to.

The fact that mosques are being built doesn't point to an invasion, it just means Muslims are more inclined than Christians to attend a public place of worship.

What do you put the decline in pubs down to? Invading Muslims, a change in the way people socialise or lower costs for alcohol in supermarkets than in pubs? Churches and pubs, symbols of the UK of my youth, probably yours, are both in decline. Maybe we are all just changing habits.

U.K. Law views racial discrimination and religious or national discrimination as the same thing so if you say treat people different because of their faith you stand to be called a racist much in the same way as it could be called racist to not give a Welsh guy a job because he is Welsh.

I have met hundreds of British Muslims over the years and one of the is yet to make me fear they are taking over or any of this kind of rubbish. Most if not all just want to go out work support their families and head to mosque.

I know it's cheesy but I really do think that being British to a large extent about respecting diversity.

a reply to: TrueBrit

No, you are exactly that, starry eyed and unaware. You personally wouldn't think so because you think yourself open minded and nice. There is nothing wrong with that, but there are others that can see further. Or do you reject historical evidence of islam conquering a variety of countries?

It happened and if we allow it, it will happen here. By refusing point blank to see this, I can only assume that you are ready and willing to live in a world which will increasingly be more islamic with every year.

I can only shake my head in your direction. You are the guy from Monty Python [if you even read my post, if not, try to find that bit].

I do not want harm to innocent people, I don't want to kill anyone, nor do I want to stick people into ghettos. I want the opposite. I want integration, the teaching of our laws and our rights to those vulnerable women that get 'imported' for marriage and slavery to men from muslim countries. They will never learn our language and certainly know nothing about the possibilities they now have to break free.

Thanks to people like you, who think their culture is their right and should be preserved, these women will stay right in their inescapable cages. If Britain had balls, they would force any newcomers, especially women to attend language and right classes and then hand out phone numbers. They should be teaching that now they are in Britain, they are free to leave their oppressors and get a job or an education. But oh no, that'll be racist. We have to let them create their own ghettos that look exactly like their home lands and where their laws are more powerful than those of the country they are in.

I am actually for immigration [! - shock horror] but it needs to be done to give people opportunities to change their lives and not bring their closed mindedness of their countries into ours. The only ones you should be preaching to or have a go at is muslims who are completely rejecting our way of life and yet want to preserve theirs, despite accepting all of our benefits [apart from freedom or rights of women of course].

Think man! Think. You are not protecting our freedom, you are protecting their closed mindedness. Thanks.

a reply to: Hecate666

It is a stance I suspect inspired by trying to appear holier than thou at the expense of objective logical thought.
I share the member's lack of fear of terrorist attack, but it would be silly to think that there is not a specific problem with extremist Islam, compared to say extremist Sikhs in the UK.
...and yep, I'd choose a street full of Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, or Zororoastrians over Muslims.

That is not a position of fear or hate, just a probability game based on my experiences of people who follow such unverifiable faiths.

a reply to: Hecate666

I believe TrueBrit hails from deepest Dorset...y'know a hotbed of muslim radicals and violent youths

It is the Muslim youth that are the problem. The older generations seem to be at a loss as to how to deal with them. Those Muslims that have been in this country since after the war and a couple of generations after, whilst not particularly integrated, do not seem to have the same outlook and mentality as the youth generation of the 21st century. These teens & young adults have the same victim and entitlement mentality that so many have acquired over recent years, and when they don't get their special treatment, they start the blame game. There is little work ethic anymore in ALL communities and Muslim Teens especially are of a generation of "want it now". If they don't work for it, they will get it through other means. The Muslims run all prostitution where I live, most of the drug gangs are Muslim and the car ringer gangs are Muslim. Their only rivals at the moment are the Kurds with even the West Indians taking a backseat to the Muslim crime lords.

For as long as Muslim children are brought up in 2 cultures there will be problems with where they feel they belong.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

No, Southend, he authored a thread about a BBC story he was featured in.
It is all public information the honourable member has posted himself.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Mclaneinc


So here's the thing. The radicals need dealing with, I agree. But because they are so few,

Perhaps, but the number of radicals is growing. The young radicals of today are the young parents of tomorrow, teaching their children disdain for the world (people and communities) around them.

a reply to: Hecate666

The only ones you should be preaching to or have a go at is muslims who are completely rejecting our way of life and yet want to preserve theirs, despite accepting all of our benefits [apart from freedom or rights of women of course].

Think man! Think. You are not protecting our freedom, you are protecting their closed mindedness. Thanks.

First of all, this segment of your post absolutely outlines your wrong think in all of this. Muslims in general do NOT need a bloody good talking to about the dangers of radical Islam, or about integration into our culture, any more than any other group of people need talking to about the dangers of radicalisation of their demography, whatever it might be. Muslims by and large are NOT rejecting our way of life, are happy as any one of us is to sit down with a cup of tea and a biscuit, discussing the matters of the day, are adept at queuing, capable of just as much complaint about faulty public services as any indigenous group (although that term has no meaning, since all British genetics is a hodgepodge anyway) are, in fact, capable and willing to be part of British society. The vast majority of them are not out there, protesting and asking for some sort of Sharia law, or for special dispensations allowing them to murder each other in the street over matters of so called honour. Most of those who have arrived here, did so because they wanted to escape that moronic death spiral, and live in some relative freedom.

So no, most Muslims in this country do NOT need that discussion. They DO however need to be treated with the same respect we give to one another, because ostracising them over the actions of a minority of idiots in their midst, can only lead to them being isolated from the communities that people complain they refuse to engage with. There has been, in all of the discussion both in the high political sphere, and at street level, absolutely nothing mentioned about how communities are responsible for making others welcome. I am not talking about changes to discrimination law, or alterations to guidance for law enforcement officialdom for dealing with matters which may have a cultural element to them. I am talking about the basic interactions between indigenous (with the same caveat as earlier) residents, and new intake into our country. At no point has anyone suggested that perhaps not being a filthy, mindless, Murdoch press obsessive bastard, would induce better cross cultural respect, tolerance and even friendship. At no point has anyone suggested that communities ought to be as willing to accept new people, as we expect new people to be willing and eager to join them.

Nope, its all on the new blood, the person who has not had time to learn English yet, because their school was blown up by an airstrike, its all on them, the people who have fled backward dictatorial regimes, in order to perhaps secure a future for their children which is not riven by death and constant threat of the same. Its all on those who knew their homelands were broken places, and came here to escape those threats, to prove that they know they are in a better place at the moment, and have respect for it? One has to reason, that they knew that, which is why many of them risked dangerous sea crossings, marches across hundreds of kilometers of unforgiving terrain, crossing borders with or without the consent of those guarding the crossing points, constant danger, hunger leading to starvation, risking dying from thirst, JUST to get a shot at reaching a place of genuine safety.

All but a tiny minority, have no intention of making this country, more like the one they left.

And here is the real nitty gritty of the problem. If you tell me that because a tiny number of people from a certain demography pose a risk, means that the entire demography must be treated differently to everyone else, suspected, ostracised and alienated, then I tell you this, you are part of the problem. I am not like unto others in my community. It took me, a person of largely celtic stock, with a history in this country going back to its every corner, reaching hundreds and hundreds of years into the past, the better part of a decade to be understood and accepted, for people local to me to get used to my presence, my difference from them, in appearance, thinking, hobbies and beliefs, and I am a white, Christian Briton.

I refuse point blank to believe therefore, that the entire problem we are seeing with Muslim integration has to do with Muslims themselves. I know better, because I have received the sort of treatment that many of them do. "We do not understand you, therefore we do not like you, and see no reason to spend time with you". Never mind the fact that spending that time would aid in mutual understanding, no matter that announcing ones dislike at the beginning of an interaction is not conducive to a positive outcome, we complain at Muslims for failing to integrate with people who ACTIVELY DESPISE THEM, without having dealt with any single one of them on their individual merits. That is the reality of the situation.

a reply to: grainofsand

Sorry my apologies I could have sworn he said Dorset in a previous post