No way it is coincidence that morality is not taught in schools, Universities

LesterJust:

Schools will teach you all kinds of useful and useless stuff, but they simply won't teach you to be a moral member of society.

You cannot teach morality because it is an experiential virtue that emerges out of experience. We all have it to some degree or other, but only tend to exercise it for the benefit of those with whom we can empathise. Usually, it will mean family and close friends, and other times it we can use it to empathise with complete strangers as we see them for the same thing we each are...a human being. To be moral, you have to be empathetic. If you think it to be something else, you don't understand what it means to be moral.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

What is spiritual fornication?

the touching oneself is the naturally occurring thing, trying to make it un-natural is to deny nature itself. Such a thing should arise by choice not fear as it will anyway... so the feeling guilty about it then becomes a cause for mental illness.

That is really interesting. So maybe there are 2 sets of rules: man made and rules of this reality.

I was born and raised catholic. The whole affair, starting with baptism and culminating with the sacrament of confirmation. I was wholly devoted in heart and mind. But I was miserable. I always asked questions but was constantly rebutted with 'where is your faith'? I continued on for a few years into post secondary and then I had enough. I thought that if this was the correct path then why can't it withstand the light of inquiry? So I became a heathen. In becoming a heathen I finally found peace and contentment. Maybe is it the devil soothing my soul but I doubt it.

Sometimes the greatest prisons of all are entirely self created.

I've seen threads here and elsewhere making such claims for years.

Universities do teach morals and ethics. And the difference between the two.

Most people who makes such claims seem to have limited experience with universities. Or cannot recognize the teaching of morals and ethics when they see it.

originally posted by: Moresby
I've seen threads here and elsewhere making such claims for years.

Universities do teach morals and ethics. And the difference between the two.

Most people who makes such claims seem to have limited experience with universities. Or cannot recognize the teaching of morals and ethics when they see it.

I don't understand. Are you saying that people with limited experience to universities claim that the universities do or don't teach morals and ethics?

I am leaning towards your assertion that people with limited experience to post secondary education believe these institutions do not teach morals and ethics. Maybe the debate should be separated between ethics vs morals?

I personally believe that these institutions of brainwashing are teaching ethics. For example, and this is staggering to me, people are protesting against words/sounds that are arranged in certain order. Instead of teaching self control these universities teach these precious snowflakes how to be enraged at the sound of certain sounds being arranged in a certain order.

Really? Should I get upset at the crickets that chirp outside of my bedroom window at night? Should I have the right to silence them? Wouldn't it be better to just accept that people are different than me and as long as they are not interfering with my freewill, I should just ignore them? Would that develop inner strength. If someone else causes you to react, doesn't that mean they have won?

originally posted by: Moresby
I've seen threads here and elsewhere making such claims for years.

Universities do teach morals and ethics. And the difference between the two.

Most people who makes such claims seem to have limited experience with universities. Or cannot recognize the teaching of morals and ethics when they see it.

There are classes on it, yes, but in many cases they are electives and not required. There are a few fields that will require some form of ethics attached to them like a medical ethics course.

I think the main issue is that in an attempt not to offend, our educational institutions have moved away from attempting to reinforce what used to be a common value system and in so doing, they undermine the attempts of parents to instill value systems at home because then the kids are not allowed to express their own values and morality.

a reply to: ClovenSky

Religion sort of puts someone into prison a conceptual hell... it is designed to do that, but how much of a physical and mental hell it gets? Up to the practitioner... born in it? Getting away from it is liberating physically but the mental scars still there nagging, people turn to all of the coping mechanisms to get those "demons" they put in there out. If an adult chooses religion they are there if not by tradition then for redemption. They were in hell then went to seek ease; it gives them the ease and hey dont worry about it they are seeking?

Children born into it? Born directly into that hell... seeing a parent trying to be good but failing seeing them put on the fake airs in church but then once away the demons pop out again every week going in for another feel good dose. children dragged along... gets disillusioning after a while, of course seeing a parent wrestling with something for so long, whatever it is they are wrestling with we see the problem they wrestled with why they were there to begin with and naturally we avoid what they wrestled with seeing all the pain and suffering it brought everyone.

Thats how many children learn to be good; having such a bad example at home. A how not to be as a lesson everyday... including church day, the day when they pretend become fake put on a show and airs for everyone.

Faith in what? Impermanence... the this too shall pass. No matter what it is will end, even if someone struggles not strong enough against whatever bent death will one day end it, leaving the home will end it, avoiding toxic people will end it. When such is family? There is that instilled guilt that may arise being a good person youll say sure keep letting them and their "demons" back in it's almost like adopt a demon program and the children become the redeemers show them how to walk it live in strength and purity avoiding that bad example... sometimes that "demon" transfers to the children church offering nothing but be good and all is forgiven no matter what? It doesnt help it becomes an excuse not a path... then it turns into blaming everything but oneself in no personal responsibility...

when not walked? religion is the scapegoat

originally posted by: ketsuko
Morality is learned, but it should be reinforced at every turn in all our institutions.

How do you reinforce at 'every turn' ?

You make it sounds like a dictatorship. It's wrong to do X. And keep telling people over and over it's wrong.

Where's the openness for debate? For logical discussion? What if moral X is no longer valid? Or those who are saying it isn't, are out of touch with modern society? What then?

Murder is bad and wrong, I think any sane person would agree. But killing those who would harm a child, or your family - to me that is morally acceptable. Do you reinforce that morality? It may not be one you share, but I uphold it. So what then, if our morals conflict? How to you 'reinforce" a moral? Whose? Which?

It does great harm when one of the most formative of the institutions undermines the work done at home by teaching moral relativism and extreme non-judgmentalism at every turn.

Again, you're assuming that everyone has the same morals - we don't. We all probably have the same overall morality and ethics in general. But like my example above - it probably differs from others. If my children asked, I would advocate as much.. Would your education institutions? I doubt it. So now we're in conflict.

Some things should be judged, even if they are only judged for the individual, and some morals should not be relative if we are to maintain a coherent society based on common principles and values.

But you cannot decide which, and for whom. As I said, we dont all have the same morals. Probably 90% are the same, but there's always a difference. What if your education system or govt has morals that say porn is bad. But I say it's good and healthy. And what if your govt/edu enforces that to the point that a law is made? then what?

You ride a slippery slope when you suggest morality should be taught and further reinforced by major institutions.

I 100% disagree with you and hope to hell you are not in an position of political power or influence.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Nicely put. I was trying to say the same thing. But less coherently.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
LesterJust:

Schools will teach you all kinds of useful and useless stuff, but they simply won't teach you to be a moral member of society.

You cannot teach morality because it is an experiential virtue that emerges out of experience. We all have it to some degree or other, but only tend to exercise it for the benefit of those with whom we can empathise. Usually, it will mean family and close friends, and other times it we can use it to empathise with complete strangers as we see them for the same thing we each are...a human being. To be moral, you have to be empathetic. If you think it to be something else, you don't understand what it means to be moral.

Empathy and Wisdom that comes with maturity, ie the experience you also mentioned.

Empathy will help you understand how someone feels.

Wisdom will help you understand that how someone feels is not the ultimate justification to modify the foundations of civil society.

originally posted by: noonebutme
What if your education system or govt has morals that say porn is bad.

I would Second Amendment the hell out of that government.

The OP makes a good point. Modern secular education is a dry, soulless exercise in stark materialism.


Though morality is best taught at home, nonetheless modern education adds to the worlds over indulgence in materialism.

Indeed home morality in our modern secular age amounts to being taught ethics by TV and iphones, a wonder teacher!


With that now we know why out youth are in the state they are in

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
So extreme to make not only physical laws; morals go on and make spiritual ones too... aka thought crimes; then *poof* guilt is born. Establishing someone into guilt or original sin seems to be the goal.

And that speaks to the control that religion has on many people, it is a guilt management system that establishes certain parameters that require the adherent to obey otherwise they are shamed by the other constituents, or worse, by themselves.

The term "trust exercise" came to mind... oh peer pressure; I have seen the extreme of that in both conservative and liberal ideologies is it any wonder I'm a balance sort of fellow? Walk down a liberal city block smoking a cigarette and see how much browbeating and gasps you get same as applause if one were to do the same in a KKK costume on some Southern sidewalks.

Twilightzone business that thing called conformity by peer pressure.

a reply to: dfnj2015

It's a belief in such a thing called common sense.

I simply have to humbly disagree.

originally posted by: Willtell
The OP makes a good point. Modern secular education is a dry, soulless exercise in stark materialism.

Are you suggesting that only religious education can provide soul-filling morality?

I never went to a religious school, and I like to think I'm a moral and ethical person. Yes, I like my tech and porn, and little trinkets that a materialistic world provides. But I'm also spiritual in my own way and feel moved by a sunset, content when my children and happy and awed by the vastness of the universe.

None of that was provided to me by a religious education. I'm an atheist. All that came from going to a 'secular' school, based on providing the best education it could. It didn't instill materialism into me, nor did it cram morals down my gullet.

My life experience gives me my morals, as it should anyone. No book, tome, government, preacher, angel or God should be your source of 'morals'. As already said, if you rely on that for your morality, you've already lost it. Or never had it to begin with.

originally posted by: LesterJust
You wanna conspiracy, you better be seated for this one.

I've always been good at getting good grades, not saying I am smart just street smart within school context.

Out of high school I went straight to University of Victoria and later transferred to UBC giant well known University in Vancouver.

I've studied all kinds of things and when I needed to build credits I took variety of courses out of pure interest

Schools will teach you all kinds of useful and useless stuff, but they simply won't teach you to be a moral member of society.

GET THIS because this is fascinating

You can have 1-10 diplomas on your wall and in all that time no one bothered to teach you right from wrong.

Oh sure you can take philosophy courses that drown you in pointless scenarios that border on sci-fi

You can take divinity courses that teach religious dogma

Sure you can take sociology courses that teach how morality is in the eye of beholder, as if killing or torturing someone against their will is just a matter of personal-cultural perspective

And students lap this stuff up

Sickening

Even if you go into medical, they teach you do no harm STRICTLY in the context of surgery/healing. Nothing to do with being a moral person.

A society that will teach you anything you want, except how to think morally act morally

Service to self society, everything based on fear and greed.

EXACTLY HOW GOVERNMENT AND BANKERS LIKE IT

say it ain't true

How is it that designers of school programs (guys with PhDs) skip over these:

Tell the truth
Be kind to others
Obey laws
Question unjust laws
Help others if you can
Don't let yourself be used by unscrupulous
Uphold justice
Uphold truth as personal duty
Maintain healthy body

And lets face it, this would naturally lead to :

Measure your leaders and government by the above list.

Oh, now you see why schools don't teach morality.

Here is 17 sec clip

For something like morality which is responsible for ruling our lives, very few people
actually know where it comes from and what it actually is.

I always have problems with Star Trek and the ideology behind it.
Seems to me that moral relativism reigns in Star Trek.

Limbo

originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.
a reply to: LesterJust

Sheeple are easier to herd. Easier to control. Only need one dog to control a hundred sheeple. Sheeple with morals become people that are free and don't want live any other way.

Morality can be a mechanism to control another persons rise to power.
What if you have a person or government who is immoral?
They can abuse morality and it gives them an advantage over others.
If you believe in not killing, you'd expect it reasonable for others not to kill you also.
Limbo

In the US i think its because we have a thing called the separation of Church and State.

School is nothing more than a 12 step program to get you to respond to the bell and not question authority.

School teaches the bare minimum and blatant lies to keep the war machine turning.

originally posted by: booyakasha
In the US i think its because we have a thing called the separation of Church and State.

School is nothing more than a 12 step program to get you to respond to the bell and not question authority.

School teaches the bare minimum and blatant lies to keep the war machine turning.

So are you saying that the Department of Education is a primary source of the degradation of USA society?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
The reason why morality is not taught in school is because it is very subjective. People simply cannot agree on what is moral and what is not. That is why moral relativism exists. Some people believe morality is absolute. But they are deluding themselves.

People who believe in moral relativism are deluding themselves.
It just doesn't exist in humans.
Limbo

originally posted by: booyakasha
School teaches the bare minimum and blatant lies to keep the war machine turning.

Lies such as...?

Name 5.