Dear Scotland,

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Things could change but as an independent nation Scotland can make its own choices. Just as the UK has.

You keep forgetting....Scotland is part of the UK

and therefor is part of any decission making.

At the moment we have to ask permission even to decide if we want independence or not.

And you actually believe it will be any different

in the EU?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.

septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?

No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.

No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then

Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.

Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.

Nope no confusion at all.

I don't really expect the confused person to be capable of identifying their own confusion, or they'd be able to correct it.

Let's summarise.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.

Then you went on to tell me I was fixating on the EU, like it's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate when in ifact, it's the basis of your entire argument.

Still not confused?

Only by your​ apparent inability to understand.

The mentality of the modern Scot - anyone who can't understand their twisted lack of logic has a problem...good for you, sir.

Have fun chasing your tail and talking out of your backside.

Thanks for showing your true colours.

They've been on display quite openly since I started taking part in this thread...are you just noticing?

You really are bright, aren't you.

The only way Scotland will become independent is if they promise a FREE BAR if they do and that as daft as it sounds WILL get ur independence

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nickovthenorth

Within the EU key decisions are still made by national governments. EU bureaucrats are no more in charge than Westminster civil servants are in the UK.

Besides which the main decision would then be in the power of Scotland. Whether to be in the EU or not.

OK What if Scotland get a second referendum vote and leave the UK, then vote on EU membership as you state above (if they will even accept Scotland as an independent country its not guaranteed by a long stretch) but the majority end up voting leave the EU also, where does that leave Scotland and the Scottish people....? I'll tell you where it leaves them up Sh*t creek without a paddle.

Nope, it will leave us in a position where we can forge our own path, without having to kowtow to anyone, it will be hard but it's one that might pay off in the long run. It means we will have 100% of our Whiskey Exports (currently any shipped out of English Ports go to the Westminster Government), it will mean we can decide our own laws, taxes and all the good stuff...

Yes it does, but it also means you face all the bad alone too which with such a small population as Scotland has could become far worse than any positives.

They don't care about any of that, they have this crazy dream of giving two fingers to the establishment.

They think it will be all rosey, and care not the consequences for the people who disagree with them.

The opinions and petty desires of 45% of dreamers trumps common sense and reality...the only way they'll ever see how insane they are is when it's too late.

Even then they'll be incapable of being honest...they'll still argue that they were right. they're selfish, they want what they want regardless...and expect the rest of us should come along for the ride.

Scotland isn't brave, a nation of cowards and whingers.

And again.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

Did you intend to respond to my post ?

Oh, I see...you tried and failed - seems you somehow made your response part of the post you were quoting.

If what you are stating is fact, give evidence!

Or do your claims stand as evidence? Seems totally opinion based to me.

You know why it isn't true? For the reasons I gave - I voted, for none of the reasons you gave...

Your claims might be true for SOME people, not all, I don't need evidence....I AM evidence.

I fixed my editing error and it's funny you pull me up for an editing error and then make the same mistake. And just because you voted "No" for other reeasons doesn't mean everyone else did, that's just daft even suggesting that...

Neither you or I can speak on behalf of anyone except ourselves...you're the one trying to do that, not me...I'm making the same editing mistake right now.

Stop making assumptions about others' reasons for voting.

Would Scotland qualify for EU membership as an independent nation? Especially with the high defecit compared to GDP and troubled oil industry. What would their credit rating be for IMF loans?

Even if Scotland could independantly join the EU, I fear they would end up being owned by the Germans like some other nations.

originally posted by: ZIPMATT
Plants from the EU have been in this country , grooming its ideas , for a very long time now . Sturgeon used to be spokewoman for the Health Protection Agency in 2009 ,

now she's been employed on another project : project hoodwink the Scots so they can control the Brits from parliamentary seats . Its the same project those old red tories used to work on : the 'screw the English at home ' project , developed here by the EPP.

You scots should get rid the SNP : they are not your nations advocates , but barefaced liars . Practised ones : The HPA indeed

@::eyes roll:@@

Wow, you really are paranoid and delusional. This isn't about messing with Brexit, not everythig is about that. And you say the SNP aren't Scotland's advocates but again, you are wrong, the SNP currently have 59 seats, the second biggest party in
Scotland (Conservative) have 7, so erm, yeah, that kinda speaks for itself....

originally posted by: EasyPleaseMe
Would Scotland qualify for EU membership as an independent nation? Especially with the high defecit compared to GDP and troubled oil industry.

Even if Scotland could independantly join the EU, I fear they would end up being owned by the Germans like some other nations.

They don't care.

All they care about is...haha England, we win!

They're pathetic.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Things could change but as an independent nation Scotland can make its own choices. Just as the UK has.

You keep forgetting....Scotland is part of the UK

and therefor is part of any decission making.

At the moment we have to ask permission even to decide if we want independence or not.

And you actually believe it will be any different

in the EU?

Did the UK ask permission to leave the EU?

The Scots voting to leave Britain and join Europe is like an Eskimo living on an Iceberg deciding to live on the ship Titanic it's Iceberg just hit.

The Pengiuns lived fookin royally.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.

septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?

No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.

No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then

Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.

Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.

Nope no confusion at all.

I don't really expect the confused person to be capable of identifying their own confusion, or they'd be able to correct it.

Let's summarise.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

You believe that the UK leaving the EU is grounds for another independence referendum because it's against the wishes of the Scots...who voted in a referendum asking if th eUK should remain in the EU.

Then you went on to tell me I was fixating on the EU, like it's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate when in ifact, it's the basis of your entire argument.

Still not confused?

Only by your​ apparent inability to understand.

The mentality of the modern Scot - anyone who can't understand their twisted lack of logic has a problem...good for you, sir.

Have fun chasing your tail and talking out of your backside.

Thanks for showing your true colours.

They've been on display quite openly since I started taking part in this thread...are you just noticing?

You really are bright, aren't you.

So glad you revel in your rudeness, ignorance and bigotry. Must make life so much easier than having to think about things.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
Neither you or I can speak on behalf of anyone except ourselves...you're the one trying to do that, not me...I'm making the same editing mistake right now.

Stop making assumptions about others' reasons for voting.

I'm not, there's a wealth of information out there about voting patterns, who voted for what and why. I looked into a lot of it after the Referendum as I was genuinely interested in the data.

The landowners expecially vocal about voting No to keep their EU subsidies, same with a lot of Food and Drink vendors...

originally posted by: Forensick
The Scots voting to leave Britain and join Europe is like an Eskimo living on an Iceberg deciding to live on the ship Titanic it's Iceberg just hit.

The Pengiuns lived fookin royally.

Iceberg is good analogy.

Cold, inhospitable and they eventually break apart.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Things could change but as an independent nation Scotland can make its own choices. Just as the UK has.

You keep forgetting....Scotland is part of the UK

and therefor is part of any decission making.

At the moment we have to ask permission even to decide if we want independence or not.

And you actually believe it will be any different

in the EU?

Did the UK ask permission to leave the EU?

YES THEY ASKED THE PEOPLE THOUGHT YOU MIGHT OF HEARD ABOUT IT

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

They don't care.

All they care about is...haha England, we win!

They're pathetic.

Ha Ha ha ha ........Football fan/thug mentality

originally posted by: EasyPleaseMe
Would Scotland qualify for EU membership as an independent nation? Especially with the high defecit compared to GDP and troubled oil industry.

That is something we'd have to work out. But if we do gain our independence there is no guarantee we would vote to remain un the E.U, we may well vote to go it alone. The best thing about that is we wouldn't be getting hauled about by the short n' curlies by Westminster or anyone else, our mistakes and our successes would be our own (as opposed to our succeses being British and our failings being Scottish like it is just now, Andy Murray is only British when he's winning, after all)

originally posted by: EasyPleaseMe
Even if Scotland could independantly join the EU, I fear they would end up being owned by the Germans like some other nations.

Not likely, that's just what they want us to believe...

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: ZIPMATT
Plants from the EU have been in this country , grooming its ideas , for a very long time now . Sturgeon used to be spokewoman for the Health Protection Agency in 2009 ,

now she's been employed on another project : project hoodwink the Scots so they can control the Brits from parliamentary seats . Its the same project those old red tories used to work on : the 'screw the English at home ' project , developed here by the EPP.

You scots should get rid the SNP : they are not your nations advocates , but barefaced liars . Practised ones : The HPA indeed

@::eyes roll:@@

Wow, you really are paranoid and delusional. This isn't about messing with Brexit, not everythig is about that. And you say the SNP aren't Scotland's advocates but again, you are wrong, the SNP currently have 59 seats, the second biggest party in
Scotland (Conservative) have 7, so erm, yeah, that kinda speaks for itself....

That's a nasty slur , and yes , these problems that keep coming from Sturgeon are about messing with Brexit .
I correct myself , the SNP are not Scotland faithful advocates .
For example , Salmond talks about the 'heartbreak of seeing empty glens ' , because the scots have mostly moved away down south or to europe . What ? Does he imagine they might fill back up with people who aren't even from Scotland ?
He 's a pretender , doublefaced liar :
nothing paranoid or deluded about knowing what a doublefaced liar is . You're spreading ignorance now .

originally posted by: EvanB
We have indeed history spanning the ages..

We have fought each other many times, but then we came to fight by each others side.. More times!

Nicola Sturgeon, a one track pony and current First minister of Scotland is NOT a democrat.. All she wants is to break up our union even to the cost of her own constituency of which all public services are failing etc..

She does not care even for the fellow Scotts who voted her in power..

She wants independence yet but wants you to continue to be slaves of an unelected EU..

I as an Englishman love my Scottish brothers, and don't want them to be chewed up by a foreign Brussels who don't want them but will use them and your first minister will allow that just to get her name in the paper and place in history..

And she will

As a failure..


You are not separate from us, we are family..

I as a soldier myself have fought side by side with my Scottish brothers.. So has my dad.. And his dad.. And helped rescue the world from tyranny many times..


We will always be stronger together..

Do not let some self serving harlot who cannot even answer a simple question divide us


With love always


An English soldier and British xx

And you say all this crap under a Tory government also with an unelected leader? Additionally, being a soldier means you're the slave to an unjust system that has destroyed and killed countries and people for decades in the name of a few, not the British people, in which you claim to be a part of.

The only thing the U.K. ever was is England leading the other nations with outdated ideas of elitism. If it's the lesser of two evils, the EU would probably show Scotland more respect that ANY government of Westminster ever has.

originally posted by: Denoli
The only way Scotland will become independent is if they promise a FREE BAR if they do and that as daft as it sounds WILL get ur independence

Typical racism, claiming Scotland is a nation of alcoholics? In the bin with you...

originally posted by: ZIPMATT

Thatt's a nasty slur , and yes , these problems that keep coming from Sturgeon are about messing with Brexit .
I correct myself , the SNP are not Scotland faithful advocates .
For example , Salmond talks about the 'heartbreak of seeing empty glens ' , because the scots have mostly moved away down south or to europe . What ? Does he imagine they might fill back up with people who aren't even from Scotland ?
He 's a pretender , doublefaced liar :
nothing paranoid or deluded about knowing what a doublefaced liar is . You're spreading ignorance now .

Except the Glens are emptying because people are moving to the bigger towns and cities, true some are moving down South and Abroad but to suggest it's all folk from the Glens is a bit much...