Dear Scotland,

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot
My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

Thats life..... things are constantly changing, thats the nature of the beast

and sometimes we have to take the bad with the good!

But it is not a possibility to have a referendum every time things dont go your

way, its political swings and roundabouts.

Sometimes 'Life's just a bitch'

Why is the UK leaving the EU then. Shouldn't we just have taken the bad with the good?

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot

Then could i ask, why would (I'm assuming how you would vote of course) you or Scotland for that matter want to break up the UK but remain in the EU, I'm sorry i just don't get that logic at all.

What bit don't you get? Not being sarcastic is a genuine question.

That Scottish people who do want to leave the UK because of being controlled by Westminster but still want to remain a part the the EU where they will have even less say on their affairs.

Because it is a total myth that we would have less say.

And you know this how? the way the EU is heading it could be a huge error in judgment to make this presumption or it could be the best thing since sliced bread but its a big gamble in my opinion.

Things could change but as an independent nation Scotland can make its own choices. Just as the UK has.

At the moment we have to ask permission even to decide if we want independence or not.

originally posted by: EvanB
She does not care even for the fellow Scotts who voted her in power..

She wants independence yet but wants you to continue to be slaves of an unelected EU..

Wrong, she wants what's best for Scotland and her people. Some of Scotland want to be in the E.U, some of us want out of it, Nicola wants us to forge our own path, whatever path that may be. She does want to remain in the E.U but her real desire is for the Scottish people to decide how we move forward, to have the choice that Darth May will never let us have, the only option she offers in hard exit from the E.U.

originally posted by: EvanB
I as an Englishman love my Scottish brothers, and don't want them to be chewed up by a foreign Brussels who don't want them but will use them and your first minister will allow that just to get her name in the paper and place in history..
And she will.

As a failure.

So instead you'd rather see us chewed up by Westminster who doesn't want us but will use us? The Prime Minister will allow that to get her place in History...
And she will

As the PM who broke up Britain...

originally posted by: EvanB
You are not separate from us, we are family..

Hahahahahahaha, yeah, we're the UK's Ginger Stepchild...

originally posted by: EvanB
I as a soldier myself have fought side by side with my Scottish brothers.. So has my dad.. And his dad.. And helped rescue the world from tyranny many times..

And for that I thank you from the bottom of my dark little tartan heart...

originally posted by: EvanB
We will always be stronger together..

*trying so hard not to laugh*

originally posted by: EvanB
Do not let some self serving harlot who cannot even answer a simple question divide us

I won't, that's why I'm going to help campaign for Scottish Independence so we can get away from Darth May and her evil ways...

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot

Then could i ask, why would (I'm assuming how you would vote of course) you or Scotland for that matter want to break up the UK but remain in the EU, I'm sorry i just don't get that logic at all.

What bit don't you get? Not being sarcastic is a genuine question.

That Scottish people who do want to leave the UK because of being controlled by Westminster but still want to remain a part the the EU where they will have even less say on their affairs.

Because it is a total myth that we would have less say.

And you know this how? the way the EU is heading it could be a huge error in judgment to make this presumption or it could be the best thing since sliced bread but its a big gamble in my opinion.

Things could change but as an independent nation Scotland can make its own choices. Just as the UK has.

At the moment we have to ask permission even to decide if we want independence or not.

But would you be truly independent, as a part of the EU you would be at the mercy of the EU bureaucrats with little to almost no say in EU policy making.

Which whether you like it or not will effect Scotland as an EU member.

a reply to: nickovthenorth

Within the EU key decisions are still made by national governments. EU bureaucrats are no more in charge than Westminster civil servants are in the UK.

Besides which the main decision would then be in the power of Scotland. Whether to be in the EU or not.

originally posted by: EvanB
a reply to: midicon

That would be a very small and vocal bunch of Ned's with no sense..

You'd think so if you weren't on the receiving end of it, but you are misinformed, most of the things you've said so far simply are not true. You've fallen for the Daily Mail-esque propaganda hook-line-and-sinker...

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
Scottish people should stop looking at the EU referendum as a scottish vote, it wasn't - the UK voted as a single entity...this was decided before the EU referendum when 55% of Scots voted to remain part of the union.

Most of whom did so (landowners, farmers etc included) because they were lied to by Better Together and told voting No was the only way to guarantee staying in the E.U and look how that turned out. There was a promise from the Scottish Government there would not be another Referendum for a generation unless the UK wide Political landscape changed drastically, being ripped out of the E.U against our will would count as a drastic change, don't you think?

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

What kind of pills are you on? You realise the ballot for the EU Referendum was the same the UK over? Nobody answered it thei own way...

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.

septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?

No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.

No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then

originally posted by: EvanB
We have indeed history spanning the ages..

We have fought each other many times, but then we came to fight by each others side.. More times!

Nicola Sturgeon, a one track pony and current First minister of Scotland is NOT a democrat.. All she wants is to break up our union even to the cost of her own constituency of which all public services are failing etc..

She does not care even for the fellow Scotts who voted her in power..

She wants independence yet but wants you to continue to be slaves of an unelected EU..

I as an Englishman love my Scottish brothers, and don't want them to be chewed up by a foreign Brussels who don't want them but will use them and your first minister will allow that just to get her name in the paper and place in history..

And she will

As a failure..


You are not separate from us, we are family..

I as a soldier myself have fought side by side with my Scottish brothers.. So has my dad.. And his dad.. And helped rescue the world from tyranny many times..


We will always be stronger together..

Do not let some self serving harlot who cannot even answer a simple question divide us


With love always


An English soldier and British xx

Absolutely ! She's a plant from the EU , a very prominent , not so obvious one to the public though , and they've been crawling out of the woodwork recently, because we are leaving , and they are scrambling to ruin it. None of them , the remainers , are to be listened to . They are traitors , in a world where national politics still counts (just) , and allegiance to one's country , : GREAT BRITAIN is of the most high importance , especially today .

There are only 5 million or so Scots anyway , of course they matter , but the SNP they voted for cannot be allowed to use the Scottish for the ends of the EU (should say the EPP), against Britain .

Having said that though , N Ireland is a different matter imo , its own kettle of fish .

What we are , England Scotland and Wales , collectively , are an Island . We are Islanders, is the way it should be seen , and
we are called The British Islanders . Internationalists have wanted to deny and destroy our national identity as English or British or Islanders . They have sought to water us down and peter us out and to stop us counting in our own country , by flooding us with immigrants from europe , by positive discrimination and direct underminement . They called us racists and xenophobes if we questioned it . But , we stood up and said no to this when we were given the chance . Its ignorance or forced convolutions in reasoning which let anyone English imagine remaining was a good idea . Sturgeon and Salmond and the rest of them , are cheating thee Scots , for their real paymasters , the European People's Party .

originally posted by: [post=22082457]ZIPMATT[/post
Absolutely ! She's a plant from the EU , a very prominent , not so obvious one to the public though , and they've been crawling out of the woodwork recently, because we are leaving , and they are scrambling to ruin it. None of them , the remainers , are to be listened to . They are traitors

The tagline of ATS isn't "Spread Ignorance" just so you know...

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.

septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?

No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.

No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then

Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.

a reply to: djz3ro

Just what's that supposed to mean then ?
It's not , 'spread lies' either .

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
Scottish people should stop looking at the EU referendum as a scottish vote, it wasn't - the UK voted as a single entity...this was decided before the EU referendum when 55% of Scots voted to remain part of the union.

Most of whom did so (landowners, farmers etc included) because they were lied to by Better Together and told voting No was the only way to guarantee staying in the E.U and look how that turned out. There was a promise from the Scottish Government there would not be another Referendum for a generation unless the UK wide Political landscape changed drastically, being ripped out of the E.U against our will would count as a drastic change, don't you think?

More opinion stated as fact.

I didn't vote based on any of that.

I've always been anti EU and pro UK and know many others who are.

I know others who are not...let's not beat around the bush. For years I had debates with certain people about this issue and was honest about it, it is, for many, and will always be anti-english sentiment based on crap like Braveheart.

We see evidence of this when they cry FREEDOM!

They exposed themselves recently when there was a game of football...of all things, England vs Scotland, and social medial was laden with crap about English b******* and photoes were posted of an aussie with a blue face.

Don't project your crap onto me. People know what they voted for, they don't need you or anyone else to tell them.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

What kind of pills are you on? You realise the ballot for the EU Referendum was the same the UK over? Nobody answered it thei own way...

Then why are they still bleating on about how majority of Scots voted to remain in the EU? It's the basis of this whole debate, they reckon it's a valid excuse for another referendum.

originally posted by: ZIPMATT
a reply to: djz3ro

Just what's that supposed to mean then ?
It's not , 'spread lies' either .

Well let's start with the lie you began with, the one about Sturgeon being an E.U. plant, I mean, she's been in power since before the stupid word Brexit was even invented, and that should be enough to explain what I meant by my previous post, It's funny how the English in this thread are getting more het up about this than the likes of Sceptic and myself...

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.

septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?

No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.

No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then

Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.

Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: ScepticScot


This seems pretty clear cut to me, Scotland had a referendum they voted to stay part of the UK, the UK had a referendum they voted to leave the EU, the UK is leaving the EU based on the result of that referendum there isn't a second vote the same should apply to the Scottish indyref.

septicscot doesn't care...voted in the EU referendum as a Scot, answered the wrong question, not realising the question was about the UK and not Scotland as a single entity.

The ultimate irony...the majorty Scots who voted in the EU ref should have their votes completely invalidated as they didn't asnwer the question legitimately, they answered their own version of that question...

Should Scotland remain part of the EU.

You can't even answer that simple question properly, had no place voting n any referendum. You don't define the question, it comes pre-defined, you simply answer it...a simple yes or no and you still made a complete mess of it.

You seem to have failed to read or understand my earlier reply. Where i have i said that Scotland should have had a separate vote on leaving the EU?

No...you fail to understand the simple point I made.

This is the question that a lot of Scots apparently did answer then they voted in the EU referendum...I thought I'd made that perfectly clear.

Yours was a UK vote, not a Scottish vote.

So why fixate on how many Scots voted to remain in the EU when it was a UK wide vote?

You're the one saying that...you and many other Scots apparently did not fully understand the question.

Stop looking at it from a Scottish persective and I'll stop making legitimate points like that.

No you seem to be the one fixating on the EU referendum.

My point is that as we are leaving the EU circumstances have changed since the last independence referendum.

And nobody is disputing that...it's changing because the majority voted for it to change.

Changing for who...the Scots, you mean?

What's changing? EU membership? If that's your whole argument and that's why you're here...then who is really fixating on that issue?

That would be you...you seem to think it's a legit excuse for another ref...either you do or you don't...you're constantly contradicting yourself.

You continue to make points then you're unhappy because people respond to those points...I agree, the EU ref is irrelevant to Scottish independence...so we both agree.

So shut up about it then

Try reading this slowly.

When the last independence referendum was held the UK was part of the EU.

We are now leaving.

That is a major change.

The winning party at the last election included a promise to hold a new referendum if there was a major change.

My argument in this entire thread has been above. How am I contradicting myself?

Oh and having considered your charming advise I have decided no I will not shut up. Thanks anyway.

Oh I've read it time and time again.

You need to think and make the distinction between the UK as a whole and Scotland as a single nation.

There's apparently a lot of confusion between the two where you and a few others are concerned.

Nope no confusion at all.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie

Then why are they still bleating on about how majority of Scots voted to remain in the EU? It's the basis of this whole debate, they reckon it's a valid excuse for another referendum.

Umm, it's the basis of YOUR whole debate but ScepticScot has been trying to point out the real basis of it, you say you've read it but clearly you're missing the point.This post of yours only proves that...

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: nickovthenorth

Within the EU key decisions are still made by national governments. EU bureaucrats are no more in charge than Westminster civil servants are in the UK.

Besides which the main decision would then be in the power of Scotland. Whether to be in the EU or not.

OK What if Scotland get a second referendum vote and leave the UK, then vote on EU membership as you state above (if they will even accept Scotland as an independent country its not guaranteed by a long stretch) but the majority end up voting leave the EU also, where does that leave Scotland and the Scottish people....? I'll tell you where it leaves them up Sh*t creek without a paddle.

Its pretty obvious you want out so to that i say good luck but i on the other hand think that throwing 300 odd years of union down the swanny to remain in bed with a failed/failing 50 odd year experiment gone wrong is an error in judgment.

I do however respect your right to that opinion though as i would hope you respect mine