Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

originally posted by: RedDragon

Curious -- if you're going to be on TRT anyways, why not just go on 500 mil + per week to be superman instead of 200 mil just to be normal?

I would like to keep my longevity not reduce it. TRT has many bad side effects if abused..I'm fine on 200mil every two weeks.

a reply to: Xtrozero

That's why there is in and out of competition substance list.. there is a long list athletes can take that are allowed out of competition but not in competition. When actively competing they are expected to be off such substances, with very few if any exceptions. Exceptions are becoming more and more rare because people look for exceptions for everything, how do you say for example that a transgender for something elective is more deserving of an exemption than say AIDS which steroids are critical for preventing muscle wasting? That's the issue that anti doping enforcement faces, where do you actually draw the line? For every cheat you will have someone with a legitimate reason they need to be on it. And honestly doctors are the biggest hurdle to allowing exemptions, its not hard to find a doctor to put his name on something for the right price, how do you go about implementing a way to ensure these ailments and exemption request are legitimate? Keep in mind the cost of Anti doping enforcement is already at a level that they can't test all elite athletes just for known banned substances. Most athletes actually mock those who get caught because it's so easy to avoid detection. So you think they have resources to effectively ensure Athletes and doctors are requesting legitimate exceptions? Hell most who get caught do so because of someone ratted them out.

www.usada.org...

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
Ah I posted a thread long ago about a heshe mma fighter, who destroyed his female opponent, literally breaking bones in her face. This isn't fair to the true sex that the team/league is made for.

Firstly heshe is derogatory but I'll forgive you this one time. So isn't this what certain people want? For this kid to participate in the athletics program based on his genitals as opposed to the rest of his body to include brain. So it's cheating if a Trans FtM (Female to male) wrestles with girls? So then should he compete with boys and if so then wouldn't that mean a Teen MtF (male to female) should wrestle girls?. I mean one set of hormones adds strength while the opposite formula would diminish strength. No common sense used here at all but hey it's Texas.

Firstly, heshe is fine and has always worked to let you know what kind of person is being discussed. There's a way to prevent being called that, and it's by being normal and not wanting to change the way you were created. Second, you've missed the entire point that the chick is taking testosterone which makes it stronger.

Oh...well if you say so then. You like calling people "it" do you, as if that has ever been an appropriate label for a human being. I'm sure you don't know much better though being an ignorant swampbilly and all.

originally posted by: Xenogears
Here's the thing though, if genitals do not determine gender, neither do hormones.

You can be in a female body and consider yourself male gender wise or in a male body and consider yourself female gender wise.

Now if you want to be physically like a male or physically like a female, that is another thing, but we've already established that it is unnecessary to be physically of the same gender you identify as to be that gender, as we've determined physical body does not determine gender.

Who determined that? Thats whats call bulls**t. Some of yous got a screw lose really. Best that can be done is to call say a woman that wants to be a man a "man in kind" ect really wants to be a man, dress like one, cant tell the diff ect but still only in kind. Not gender.......thats what you call stupid.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Xenogears
Here's the thing though, if genitals do not determine gender, neither do hormones.

You can be in a female body and consider yourself male gender wise or in a male body and consider yourself female gender wise.

Now if you want to be physically like a male or physically like a female, that is another thing, but we've already established that it is unnecessary to be physically of the same gender you identify as to be that gender, as we've determined physical body does not determine gender.

Who determined that? Thats whats call bulls**t. Some of yous got a screw lose really. Best that can be done is to call say a woman that wants to be a man a "man in kind" ect really wants to be a man, dress like one, cant tell the diff ect but still only in kind. Not gender.......thats what you call stupid.

Well the MSM, left, and PC narrative has determined that gender is in the mind not the body. That can be debated.

Though I will say that the long list of alternate genders besides male and female are nothing more than pure nonsense.

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Which bathroom should Mack use again?

Did I hear an answer to that question?

Red herring. We're talking about sports and anabolic steroids

It's not a red herring at all. You're talking about Mack's treatments becasue that is what interests you and fits your agenda.

The issue at hand is backwards laws which ignore gender identity, and those laws are directly related to the silly invasive laws about who can use what bathroom.

The whole of Mack's story points to needless archaic ideas ... so, if you don't want to answer the question don't answer.

originally posted by: Xenogears

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Xenogears
Here's the thing though, if genitals do not determine gender, neither do hormones.

You can be in a female body and consider yourself male gender wise or in a male body and consider yourself female gender wise.

Now if you want to be physically like a male or physically like a female, that is another thing, but we've already established that it is unnecessary to be physically of the same gender you identify as to be that gender, as we've determined physical body does not determine gender.

Who determined that? Thats whats call bulls**t. Some of yous got a screw lose really. Best that can be done is to call say a woman that wants to be a man a "man in kind" ect really wants to be a man, dress like one, cant tell the diff ect but still only in kind. Not gender.......thats what you call stupid.

Well the MSM, left, and PC narrative has determined that gender is in the mind not the body. That can be debated.

Though I will say that the long list of alternate genders besides male and female are nothing more than pure nonsense.

Gender identity has nothing to do with "MSM, left and PC narrative" anything. These are mere buzzwords that act like a dog whistle to those who share an agenda.

The concepts are recognized scientifically and legally. Period.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Xenogears
Here's the thing though, if genitals do not determine gender, neither do hormones.

You can be in a female body and consider yourself male gender wise or in a male body and consider yourself female gender wise.

Now if you want to be physically like a male or physically like a female, that is another thing, but we've already established that it is unnecessary to be physically of the same gender you identify as to be that gender, as we've determined physical body does not determine gender.

Who determined that? Thats whats call bulls**t. Some of yous got a screw lose really. Best that can be done is to call say a woman that wants to be a man a "man in kind" ect really wants to be a man, dress like one, cant tell the diff ect but still only in kind. Not gender.......thats what you call stupid.

So, you don't agree with standard medical descriptions of sex, gender and gender identity and there's something wrong with us???

You have an opinion and a right to have it. However, as we have all discussed in the interminable threads touching on these subjects ... what you believe doesn't fit what we know medically. There's no need to be insulting because you dont' agree ... because your beliefs are stronger than the facts.

Not to mention, more than a little childish calling people 'stupid' because you don't like what they say.

None of us posting here are stupid including you. What is it so hard to understand that just because you don't "agree" with what other people are and what they experience that there's something wrong with them?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Abysha

If it is illegal for men to be in women's restrooms then yes, you and your hypothetical trans man should both get in trouble for doing so. I'm not sure you actually understand the civil rights position on this.

That is true on paper, but I'm suggesting that is not the way it actually plays out in the real world....

I don't know what world I'm in but I described it to you. I've never seen a transman in the women's room and I frequent an LGBT bar quite often so I imagine I'd come across it there, if anywhere.

I've seen some really super butch lesbians who you might mistaken for men at first glance but they totally identify as women. Is that something you've seen a lot? I'm just curious where you're getting this from.

And when I say I don't think you understand the civil rights position (in general, anyway), I mean that you seem to think that people are advocating for trans people to use whatever restroom they feel like, changing it on a whim. Why would anybody want that?

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Abysha

If it is illegal for men to be in women's restrooms then yes, you and your hypothetical trans man should both get in trouble for doing so. I'm not sure you actually understand the civil rights position on this.

That is true on paper, but I'm suggesting that is not the way it actually plays out in the real world....

I don't know what world I'm in but I described it to you. I've never seen a transman in the women's room and I frequent an LGBT bar quite often so I imagine I'd come across it there, if anywhere.

I've seen some really super butch lesbians who you might mistaken for men at first glance but they totally identify as women. Is that something you've seen a lot? I'm just curious where you're getting this from.

And when I say I don't think you understand the civil rights position (in general, anyway), I mean that you seem to think that people are advocating for trans people to use whatever restroom they feel like, changing it on a whim. Why would anybody want that?

Well, you're not FORCED to transition physically if you're trans. If you want to look like a female or at least don't mind looking like a female(or a male), while identifying as a member of the opposite sex... you can see the problem.

IF someone that looks like a female can enter a male bathroom and someone that looks like a male can enter a female bathroom... then what stops anyone that is not trans from doing the same and going to any bathroom they want short of keeping track of which bathroom they tend to use? Unless they switched bathroom in the same occasion they could claim any observed change in bathroom used could be because they've embraced their own true gender, and any inconsistency could be attributed to uncertainty regards the gender they identify as.

That is unless you're saying trans individuals should be forced to dress a particular way and perhaps take surgery or hormones to be able to use a particular bathroom.

a reply to: Xenogears

A true trans person would want to dress the identity they are and take hormones to feel more their identity.

No force is necessary for that.

If someone got a wild hair and just wanted to use the opposite bathroom for sh*ts n giggles...then do your best to call the police and have them arrested. I really think only miserable people would call the police on issues like these. I use the mens restroom often when I really have to pee and the woman's restroom is occupied. (i am a girl). I dont get a rush from it, just a release.

If a serial killer male dressed as a woman to enter into a woman's bathroom to rape/kill women...that would happen regardless of trans equality.

a reply to: veracity

shocking using men's bathrooms when the ladies is full !
I don't think I've ever been inside a women's bathroom

I'm just joking its not shocking just convenience, and men don't actually give a # if a women uses the men's room
or at least i've never noticed a man get anything other than excited to see a women in the men's
all I can say is for a woman to go into a men's toilet they are brave have you seen how some male's leave the toilets BOKE!

I'm not into all this identity politics

I try not to identify too much with anything as its all ego bs

I identify as a human being first and male second and that is it

a reply to: sapien82

its not all ego bs tho, if you were a trans you would be having your rights trampled on.

I am a single white female mother. I have been discriminated against at spermbanks bc I am single. They told me they would not give a single woman their sperm. I know its rediculous and not a big deal but the sinking feeling in my stomach when i realized I was discriminated against bc I was single was strong. It went away...quickly i might add bc I dont really care and if I really wanted a baby I could get sperm another way. I understand that my discrimination is a very very small percentage of the discrimination going on today. My discrimination could even be argued as NOT DISCRIMINATION AT ALL...but the sinking heart feeling was real.

However, that sinking strong feeling does not go away to someone who is constantly being discriminated against. Equal rights for all is very important for our country...not ego bs.

For someone like Mack to still wrestle even though the crooked law was against him is very strong. He is standing up (if he realizes it or not) for trans rights. Being constantly shot down with discrimination has got to be rough, standing up to it takes courage.

a reply to: veracity

to me identity is nothing but ego ! and in my opinion identity has nothing to do with your rights as a human you should automatically have your rights from birth , no more no less than any other human
it's only your ego that wants to identify with something , ultimately consciousness has no male or female or trans identity it is simply consciousness

I think he is a brave individual to stand up against an institution like a wrestling federation
having someone do this eventually sets legal precedence for future cases which is commendable if it gets to the point where its taken to court

I had no idea single women would even face difficulty in receiving a sperm donation at a clinic thats news to me!
well Id no idea as being a male its not something I come in contact with on the day to day

there is no doubt if I were trans then my rights would be trampled by default as ultimately trans humans dont seem to be taken seriously , they are still humans after all regardless of their gender or "identity"
it's pretty much simply because as humans we either are category A or B and if you dont fit either category then you are treated as nothing

rights for humans should be afforded from birth simply if you are human then you have rights
identity or gender or anything else shouldnt afford you more or less rights than any other human

originally posted by: Abysha

And when I say I don't think you understand the civil rights position (in general, anyway), I mean that you seem to think that people are advocating for trans people to use whatever restroom they feel like, changing it on a whim. Why would anybody want that?

Best of both worlds, physically legal to use one and mentally legal to use the other, why not?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

You didn't seem to know that Mack hadn't had surgeries ... and now you want to squint at hormone replacement and call that mutilation?

I'm not going to waste a lot of time on that level of fact-denial.

I haven't called you a transphobe or a homophobe so all you're doing there is pitching red herring.

The medical, psychiatric, psychological and public health professional associations have stated that trans folks have a variant gender identity not a mental illness. Various legal precedents around the country note this fact as well.

You are only focusing on your belief that being trans is a mental illness. It isn't. Anything you say subject to that after the contrary has been proven time and time again ... is frankly not worth responding to.

SIgh, interwebz users it seems will always have problems with context and always seem to have the the ability to twist anything written to suit themselves.

Keep on reading between the lines and cherry picking bud. A happy life to you.

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

You didn't seem to know that Mack hadn't had surgeries ... and now you want to squint at hormone replacement and call that mutilation?

I'm not going to waste a lot of time on that level of fact-denial.

I haven't called you a transphobe or a homophobe so all you're doing there is pitching red herring.

The medical, psychiatric, psychological and public health professional associations have stated that trans folks have a variant gender identity not a mental illness. Various legal precedents around the country note this fact as well.

You are only focusing on your belief that being trans is a mental illness. It isn't. Anything you say subject to that after the contrary has been proven time and time again ... is frankly not worth responding to.

SIgh, interwebz users it seems will always have problems with context and always seem to have the the ability to twist anything written to suit themselves.

Keep on reading between the lines and cherry picking bud. A happy life to you.

actually, i think he is very frank and straight forward...nowhere do i see cherry-picking and twisting.

You may be currently twisting it in your mind so that it comes out jumbled and does not make sense?

also, arent you also currently an "interwebz user"? if you are posting on this board just as Gryphon...we all are!

a reply to: veracity

You are conflating your own desires with rights.

I thought campaigning against bigotry and racism was about peoples rights? Receiving a donation from a sperm bank isn't a right in any way, shape or form.

Do you base all of your views on issues like racism/trans issues on your own meagre experiences? If you can acquire sperm without having to attend a bank, why don't you? Why even go there if it's not that important? Why would a single mother seek to bring yet another fatherless child into the world?

I thought you were intelligent?

Intelligent people learn from the past... you can't compare your own selfish desires with the equal human rights issues, it's little wonder people are unable to be subjective, step back and see the bigger picture when they conflate apparently human rights issues like racial/gender equality with their own selfish desires.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
a reply to: veracity

You are conflating your own desires with rights.

I thought campaigning against bigotry and racism was about peoples rights? Receiving a donation from a sperm bank isn't a right in any way, shape or form.

Do you base all of your views on issues like racism on your own meagre experiences? If you can acquire sperm without having to attend a bank, why don't you? Why even go there if it's not that important? Why would a single mother seek to bring yet another fatherless child into the world?

I thought you were intelligent?

Intelligent people learn from the past... you can't compare your own selfish desires with the equal human rights issues, it's little wonder people are able to be subjective, step back and see the bigger picture when they conflate apparently human rights issues like racial equality with their own selfish desires.

Heathen...

Your response is not...um...making sense to me.

Of course i use my own experiences...naturally...as everyone should. I also take into account what I hear about from friends, family members (both sides) and I take what I want from the news and online sources such as ATS.

Selfish desire?

Nevermind. I dont think we are on the same level and it is painful to debate/argue with someone that is not, ummm..on your same level of thinking.

Good luck...

a reply to: veracity

Indeed we are not on the same level of thinking.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to refuse someone a sperm donation if they're already a single mother just as I think a single person would proba bly have hurdles to overcome if they attempted to adopt.

Trans issues don't compare to your desire to receive a sperm donation at all. It's completely irrelevant.

What people tell you holds as much value as what you told us about your experiences trying to acquire a sperm donation.

Meaningless...feels over reals as the saying goes. IMHO the sperm bank made the right call refusing an already single mother a sperm donation.