Bannon's Apocalypse - Dangerous Ideology in the Whitehouse

I covered the steve bannon '4th turning' in another post in another thread yesterday, 8th of February

the 'Super-Man' issue is a false straw-man of the whole thing...

the point being made by other sources was that Bannon thinks that the 2008 Financial Crisis was the catalyst for the 4th Turning....

I explained in the post that I disagreed & stated the OKC & WTC/Pentagon attacks were the actual catalyst for this theory of a 4th Turning cycle

and suggested that kellyanne Conway give Adviser Bannon some night-schooling on the subject, Steve Bannon has only an elementary-school level worldview & zeitgeist of this administration

I am amazed the dominionist crappola is rising again, here in 2017

a reply to: Wookiep

It is always wise to learn what "the other side" fears.

So I wanted to look at this and give you a reply based on some statistics and trends that you linked in your post...

In America currently, the Muslim population is approximately 1% of the entire United States population. (Total US population is around 322 million in 2015). In 2050, Muslims may become as much as 2.1% of our total population.

65% are "foreign born" and 35% are natural born American citizens. Of that 35% group, 21% are converts (remember that this can include the African American group under Elijah Mohammad's teachings).

According to Pew Research Center, this population in America is largely, well, Americanized.

The first-ever, nationwide, random sample survey of Muslim Americans finds them to be largely assimilated, happy with their lives, and moderate with respect to many of the issues that have divided Muslims and Westerners around the world.

You specifically brought up Sharia Law and the fear of that law being forced on Western countries, especially here in the US. Here is some relevant information... Link - Applying God's Law: Religious Courts & Mediation in the US - Pew Research Center

Across the United States, religious courts operate on a routine, everyday basis.

The Roman Catholic Church alone has nearly 200 diocesan tribunals that handle a variety of cases, including an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 marriage annulments each year.

In addition, many Orthodox Jews use rabbinical courts to obtain religious divorces, resolve business conflicts and settle other disputes with fellow Jews.

Similarly, many Muslims appeal to Islamic clerics to resolve marital disputes and other disagreements with fellow Muslims.

For the most part, religious courts and tribunals operate without much public notice or controversy. Occasionally, however, issues involving religious law or religious courts garner media attention.

The handling of clergy sexual abuse cases under Catholic canon law, for example, has come under scrutiny.

Internal church proceedings aimed at disciplining Protestant clergy have generated news coverage because they have highlighted debates over same-sex marriage and openly gay ministers.

There also have been public protests against Orthodox Jewish men who refused to grant their wives a religious divorce.

Meanwhile, bills aimed at banning the use of Islamic (sharia) law – or at restricting the application of religious or foreign law in general – have been introduced in more than 30 state legislatures. (For more details on those legislative initiatives, see the map graphic “State Legislation Restricting Use of Foreign or Religious Law.”)

What is Sharia Law? Well, it is intrinsic to the Islamic faith. One could say it is like the 10 Commandments are intrinsic to the Judeo Christian faith. HOW those laws are implemented within the United States, versus an Islamic Theocracy, is really the question here, isn't it? What would that look like?

Five Facts about Sharia Law Link
1. Sharia Law is primarily about a personal relationship with God, and personal conduct - how one lives their own private life.

2. Shaira Law is integral to Islam, and asking someone to not to practice it (assuming that following it does not break US laws) is an infringement on their religious freedom.

3. Critics of Sharia Law focus on the "punishment" parts, which do seem very anti-American in their violence and scope. Some of these scarier punishments are still carried out in SOME muslim countries/places, true, but not in the US. These are the equivalent of the Old Testament rules that are equally violent.

4. Sharia Law - could it become the Law of the Land in the United States?

No. No religious code can overtake our system, and it would have zero chance of becoming the law of the land. American Muslims might want to be able to do what other communities do, like Catholics, and mediate marriage disputes or property issues, but they are not all hot to have the Old Testament version of Sharia Law infringe on their American mainstream lives. Link



Now IF Muslims became the majority religion in the United States by some massive growth in a couple hundred years (though economic stability tends to limit population growth, so there's that...) would they be able to re-write the Constitution to establish Sharia Law as the law of the land against all other religions? If that happened, we would no longer be the United States of America, we would be an American Islamic Theocracy.

That is a pretty big "IF" though, and it is one that requires projecting centuries forward, and it assumes a steady growth of Islam and that no other religion would catch fire, that Christianity will die off and not have another resurgence, that secular folks will stand by and do nothing, etc. And did I mention it would take a REALLY long time? As in, not in our lifetimes at all??

Christians have a 70% majority in the US, and they have not yet succeeded in turning us into a Christian Theocracy.
So, currently, this 1% of the population has little power to change our Constitution or our laws.

While Islamic communities in America want to have the ability to practice their religion, of which Sharia Law is an integral part, and includes diet, dress code, etc., as well as legalistic matters regarding marriage and property, they will not be able to do more than Jewish Orthodox communities already have established, or the Amish or other religious communities that are given protection under the Constitution.



Steve Bannon, however, has a seat of power that is currently influencing the most powerful individual in the world.
Here is a glimpse of his rather dystopian view, and his religious leanings. Frankly, I find this to be over-the-top uncomfortable and, it looks to me, like he wants CHRISTIAN "law" and Biblical law to rule over all Americans moreso than it currently does (and it does to a greater degree than any other religion).

Steve Bannon made a movie titled "Torchbearer" with the Duck Dynasty guy, Phil Robertson. Bannon treats Robertson like a modern-day Elijah, a Prophet, and it frankly ain't my cup of tea... What kind of "law" do you think this is promoting? It sounds like the "law of God" (through Robertson's eyes and interpretation) is above "the law of the United States" but maybe I just didn't get the whole context from the trailer...

Warning - not safe for work - difficult imagery.



So while Bannon seems to rail against Authoritarianism and Secularism and Islamism, he upholds the Christian Right and it's version of "The Law of God." Which is, I might add, ultimately an authoritarian approach... He might speak of Freedom, but only a certain KIND of "freedom," one that seems to need to be sanctioned by the version of religion pushed by Duck Dynasty's Robertson.

So yeah. I'm still more afraid of Bannon and his views, than of a sudden movement to overtake the Constitution by 1% of our population...

peace,
AB

originally posted by: whyamIhere
You sound hysterical.

The guy has no power.

Nobody tells Trump what to think.

Just listen to him...Does it sound like he listens to anyone ?

Relax...Its not the end of the world.

He will be gone in a year.

Yea I don't think Bannon will last 18 months, so we are in agreement on this one.

a reply to: Realtruth

I hope you are correct!!

I hope his influence, on all fronts, fades...

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
Ever read Washington's Vision where the angel
Warns him about three world wars? Two of them have passed. This vision is recorded in the Library of Congress. Washington was a Mason by the way.

Never did read that... Interesting!

I'm not saying there will never be another world war, but even with visions and prophesy, I hope we can avoid it.

We always have choice. War does not have to be destiny.

a reply to: St Udio

I am amazed the dominionist crappola is rising again, here in 2017

With money behind it, that stuff is hard to get rid of.

The Mercer money was originally behind Dominionist/Seven Mountain candidate, Ted Cruz, before Conway and Bannon were pulled to become Trump's final campaign managers to put Trump across the finish line. Politics, because at that point it was realized that Trump, not Cruz, would be the Republican nominee.

Both Conway and Bannon came from Council for National Policy, a far right group started and filled by far right religious leaders.

a reply to: AboveBoard

AB, you are Way Above Top Secret!!

I appreciate your knowledge in your threads and have found you so prescient on events.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Civilization rise and fall like the Greek and Roman empire. He was clearly referring to historic context and the repetitive cycle. Nothing extremist with this idea. Many people believe in this concept including historians and me. You should not focus too much on MSM propaganda. They will stretch something that is nothing and make a mountain out of it. It contributes nothing to the discussion except fear mongering. If anything this shows that he is a critical thinker and familiar with history.

a reply to: AboveBoard

I almost didn't read this thread today because - well, because. It's demoralizing - the whole thing. Eye of Sauron - Dead Marshes level demoralizing :-)

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO END THIS WAY...DOES IT?

No - it doesn't. History repeats itself, but never exactly. We can control what we think - how we allow ourselves to think, react and behave

I think that with time this resistance will not be partisan. It won't look as much like the left fighting conservatism because this isn't a conservative government anymore. Those well meaning conservatives that somehow believe they can right this listing shipwreck-in-the-making will either wake up and fight or just roll over. I do see all sorts of people beginning to realize what it is we're looking at here. This is going to be Americans of all kinds trying to preserve what's best about our country for future generations

Against Normalization: The Lesson of the “Munich Post”

Yeah, I'm going there. What does Bannon want? Religion is maybe just a tool and not all that important to him:

Bullock, then nearing 80, told me how students of Hitler were often misled to focus on his vicious anti-Semitism. In fact, Bullock had initially argued, it was likely he had believed in nothing and just used the Jew-hatred to advance his cause with the nitwit thug segment of the German people. Just as Trump appealed to his nitwit thug racist, anti-Semite followers. Hitler was a “mountebank,” Bullock exclaimed, a con man who played the Jewish card, using it to whip up rowdy enthusiasm and give the impression of a movement. This is the comparison I’d been seeking.

...Be that as it may, he saw that this tactic of playing the fool, the Chaplinesque clown, had worked over and over again, worked like a charm. It kept the West off balance. They consistently underestimated him and were divided over his plans (“what does Hitler really want?”). The tactic became irresistible, as repeated always success does.

Few took Hitler seriously, and before anyone knew it, he had gathered up the nations of Europe like playing cards.

This is an interesting piece. It treats Trump as if he's maybe brilliant, but I agree with your OP - we should be looking at Bannon

If we're talking about resistance:

I had to search another Munich archive to find the very final issues of the Munich Post, but they were even more dispiriting than I could imagine. The paper went down fighting a lie, fighting Nazi murderers, refusing to normalize the Hitler regime.

A week after Hitler came to power on January 30, 1933, the Munich Post published their regular murder survey under the headline “Nazi Party Hands Dripping with Blood,” enumerating the bloody casualties: 18 dead, 34 wounded in street battles with the SA Stormtroopers.

These are the headlines that followed in daily succession:

“Germany Under the Hitler Regime: Political Murder and Terror”

“Blood Guilt of the Nazi Party”

“Germany Today: No Day Without Death”

“Brutal Terror in the Streets of Munich”

“Outlaws and Murderers in Power”

“People Allow Themselves to Be Intimidated”

The era of normalization had begun everywhere else, but the Munich Post resisted.

The Munich Post lost, yes. Soon their office was closed. Some of the journalists ended up in Dachau, some “disappeared.” But they’d won a victory for truth. A victory over normalization. They never stopped fighting the lies, big and small, and left a record of defiance that was heroic and inspirational. They discovered the truth about “endlösung” before most could have even imagined it. The truth is always worth knowing. Support your local journalist.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Hey Spiramirabilis,

Welcome to the thread! I really appreciate your contribution.

History must be known to remain unrepeated, as human nature is subject to the repetition of mistakes. I find the history of Hitler very instructive, and yeah, it get's tossed around way too much, but it's important, because it was so bloody horrific, that we understand what happened and make sure those patterns don't repeat themselves.

The Munich Post is a chilling example of what can happen when authoritarianism meets the press.

Thank you for diving in. I've learned something from you that I hadn't known before, and that is why I participate at ATS.

a reply to: AboveBoard

I really liked your OP -

I personally believe (and have hope) that people can work together to overcome adversity. In times of trouble we can either let our differences divide us, or we can just let go of all that and realize what we all stand to lose. It's an effort - but it's possible

Understanding how societies either work or fall apart? Nazi Germany is one obvious go to example. It's only an over the top example when life is stable

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I support Bannon to bring about whatever fantasy you think will manifest itself - because the anti-Constitutional Liberals and the Radical Islamic Extremists will be his target - not normal people.

You see Bannon as a Constitutionalist

You lump liberals in with Radical Islamic Extremists

You hope he will target these two groups together - he has your full approval

He'll leave the normal people alone

Just so we're clear where you stand. When people start disappearing in the night - innocent Muslims, Mexicans, liberals/journalists/artists/writers...

You'll be OK with this

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

A couple things.... First, Yes to being able to change!

people can work together to overcome adversity. In times of trouble we can either let our differences divide us, or we can just let go of all that and realize what we all stand to lose. It's an effort - but it's possible

originally posted by: AboveBoard
we understand what happened and make sure those patterns don't repeat themselves.

I think that people who believe that they cannot effect change resort to electing authoritarians who promise to do the change for them. And/or they come up with a religious apocalyptic, armageddon, End Times, New Caliphate to bring about change they perceive cannot happen otherwise. To people whose lives were destroyed by corporate pollution and lived in states that did nothing to help them, there is often a resignation and leaving it up to the "hand of God" to establish a "New World" by a Second Coming.

Often times under authoritarian regimes it is up to women to precipitate change: "She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted "

Here is another Time article, from last November

how two countries responded to change

The power of Strauss and Howe’s theory of crises comes from its lack of a specific ideology. My own interpretation of it is that the death of an old political, economic and social order creates an opportunity for any determined movement or leader to put a new vision in place. To use the most striking example, both the United States and Germany were in the midst of a terrible economic and political crisis in 1933. The United States turned to Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal; Germany turned to Adolf Hitler and National Socialism.

Ryan and Bannon's Republican Party want to bring about historic change, destroy New Deal and every other Democratic initiative since than. Ryan through legislation, Bannon through "kinetic" change.

The Republican [revolutionary party of change] goes back....to the early career of Newt Gingrich in the 1980s. ....House Speaker Paul Ryan has been dreaming for years of undoing Medicare and Social Security. The opportunity to do so has now come.

.... and Bannon won't take no for an answer...

he pointed out that each of the three preceding crises had involved a great war, and those conflicts had increased in scope from the American Revolution through the Civil War to the Second World War. He expected a new and even bigger war as part of the current crisis, and he did not seem at all fazed by the prospect.

I did not agree, and said so. But, knowing that the history of international conflict was my own specialty, he repeatedly pressed me to say we could expect a conflict at least as big as the Second World War in the near or medium term. I refused.

Second, I was wondering if the Turnings idea and the German Reichs idea are similar. Anyone run across any comparison?

a reply to: AboveBoard

That sisters in with the reporting that Bannon wrote the executive orders putting him on the National Security Council and demoting the Director of National Intelligence and Joint Chief of Staff...And trump did not understand what he was signing..

He's got plans...

originally posted by: [post=21872264]Sublimecraft

I support Bannon to bring about whatever fantasy you think will manifest itself - because the anti-Constitutional Liberals and the Radical Islamic Extremists will be his target - not normal people.

People like you are the reason Hitler rose to power....

Straight-up...

originally posted by: pianopraze
Bannon is not the Devil.

Trump is not Hitler.

Obama wasn't the anti-christ.

Both sides REALLY need to drop the rhetoric.

Well we don't really know about Bannon and Trump yet, do we?

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: [post=21872264]Sublimecraft

I support Bannon to bring about whatever fantasy you think will manifest itself - because the anti-Constitutional Liberals and the Radical Islamic Extremists will be his target - not normal people.

People like you are the reason Hitler rose to power....

Straight-up...

That's just it.

It's not about Hitler, but about the followers.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: [post=21872264]Sublimecraft

I support Bannon to bring about whatever fantasy you think will manifest itself - because the anti-Constitutional Liberals and the Radical Islamic Extremists will be his target - not normal people.

People like you are the reason Hitler rose to power....

Straight-up...

That's just it.

It's not about Hitler, but about the followers.

In your view, but others would counter that with the actual fascists are on the left with ample evidence to prove it. Bannon is the new boogie man to the left. The man is not a Nazi, white supremacist nor anti-semite and neither is Breitbart for that matter. Ever since Andrew Breitbart and the little website that could, Breitbart.com, is an existential threat to the corporate media and their mission is to take it down and now they are in the Whitehouse. This has the left and the democratic establishment media triggered to the max. It's as simple as that.

originally posted by: jtma508
For what it's worth I'll put this out there... I'm soon to be 65yo. I've been around the block a few times. From my earliest memories I have had this strong, visceral feeling that during my lifetime something epic was going to happen. It had nothing to do with me personally and was beyond my control. It was going to be decidedly unpleasant but things would be much better on the other side. I have never had any inkling of what this 'thing' is. All I can say is that the feeling is more deeply rooted than any other in my life. And again, this wasn't some idea I came-up with later in life, this has been something that has been with me since childhood. It's strong and it is always there. FWIW

I can totally relate to this. I've definitely felt the same way almost my entire life. I think almost every person who has ever lived would probably say the same thing.

Not trying to tease you at all. I seriously think that this is one of the most common feelings that man seems to experience within a lifetime.

My guess is that it has something to do with how mundane most of our lives usually become. That's why the feeling always seems to get stronger as we get older.