How does prayer work?

I've always liked this explanation:

sorry, double posted

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Woodcarver

Prayer is on one level sending out information on telepathic/entangled channels that can be intercepted both inside the body and outside. Fortunately the effect is set on lower scales than it could have been so that people are not hurting themselves with lack of control.

Can you cite your scientifically supported studies of these claims? This sounds like woo and i do not know anyone who would corroborate these claims. If these are just your opinions, you should say so.

It is not opinion but a person have to do some homework to know why it is not opinion.

www.quantumconsciousness.org...

How Quantum Biology Might Explain Life’s Biggest Questions | Jim Al-Khalili | TED Talks

en.wikipedia.org...

hammeroff and penrose's work is full of really bad science. You would be very hard pressed to find anyone who supports their work as it is full of misconceptions about quantum theory. Hammeroff appeared in the film what the bleep do we know, which is highly criticised for his misuse of quantum theory to explain reality and consciousness. His problem is that he is an anesthesiologist and not a quantum theorist. His confusion stems from a lack of understanding of quantum principles. His work is very highly criticized from those in the quantum field. This is why he speaks at the marriot instead of being invited to actual scientific lectures. He relies on others lack of understanding of quantum principles to spee his woo.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: Woodcarver

Or perhaps it's not in their best interest in the long run

How is that testable? That just seems like a cop out, and does nothing to explain how prayer actually works. What about entire teams? Surely a win wouldn't be detrimental to every member of a team?

On a personal scale

I was in a serious motorcycle wreck 8 years ago. I was found by a search party, dragged out of the rugged terrain on a sled behind a another dirtbike, and airlifted to a hospital to emergency. My parents were called by the hospital after midnight and told " get down here right away, we have your son here, he has been in an accident and is not expected to live through the night" People began praying for me. I was added to a prayer chain 1 million strong. My kidneys, and liver were off line, billireubin was coming out through the catheter. When I came to in intensive care, I was so weak, I couldn't even focus my eyes. My skin turned yellow. I began to feel something incredible. I felt a spiritual presence. I had a out of body experience that lasted 1 hour, where I flew high above the Earth out in space. I was very aware that I was out of my body. I was very clear, and it was not a dream. After an hour, I was pulled with force back down to the hospital. I hit the hospital bed at high speed, and it didn't even move. I immediately opened my eyes, and told the nurse what had happened. I had energy to focus, and speak. Within the hour my organs started working , urine began to flow, and my color came back. The Doctors were baffled. They sent me to Stanford to a expert, and he said that something inside me had been torn open, way down low, and had been hemorraging, but had somehow sealed back up. They were baffled too.
I felt those prayers. It was amazing and powerful.

a reply to: Woodcarver

What are you reffering to as CBT?

You give me a headache, im out.. Good luck with your research, dont listen to much to yourself, wont do any good.

One last note:
I was back to work in a steel mill in 31 days. Everybody was confused and amazed

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Woodcarver

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

If I do hold a degree in a science or not does neither increase or decrease if what I state is true or not.

I am simply judging your claims based on their validity. I am pointing out your lack of education to be the reason why your claims are incorrect. If you were educated, you might understand what you were talking about. But your lack of education would certainly prohibit your ability to understand and therfor make accurate statements.

originally posted by: BeenieWeenie

Lol. He said that we know prayer works the same way that we know science works, as in we can ask the scientists the same way we can ask the saints. This is balogny as we have to take the saints word for it, when we can literally do the same experiments that any scientist bases his discoveries on. If we could experiment on the effectiveness of prayer, you wouldn't need faith at all as you would have scientific proof of the effectiveness of prayer. Did you even listen to your video?

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: Woodcarver

Or perhaps it's not in their best interest in the long run

How is that testable? That just seems like a cop out, and does nothing to explain how prayer actually works. What about entire teams? Surely a win wouldn't be detrimental to every member of a team?

On a personal scale

I was in a serious motorcycle wreck 8 years ago. I was found by a search party, dragged out of the rugged terrain on a sled behind a another dirtbike, and airlifted to a hospital to emergency. My parents were called by the hospital after midnight and told " get down here right away, we have your son here, he has been in an accident and is not expected to live through the night" People began praying for me. I was added to a prayer chain 1 million strong. My kidneys, and liver were off line, billireubin was coming out through the catheter. When I came to in intensive care, I was so weak, I couldn't even focus my eyes. My skin turned yellow. I began to feel something incredible. I felt a spiritual presence. I had a out of body experience that lasted 1 hour, where I flew high above the Earth out in space. I was very aware that I was out of my body. I was very clear, and it was not a dream. After an hour, I was pulled with force back down to the hospital. I hit the hospital bed at high speed, and it didn't even move. I immediately opened my eyes, and told the nurse what had happened. I had energy to focus, and speak. Within the hour my organs started working , urine began to flow, and my color came back. The Doctors were baffled. They sent me to Stanford to a expert, and he said that something inside me had been torn open, way down low, and had been hemorraging, but had somehow sealed back up. They were baffled too.
I felt those prayers. It was amazing and powerful.

The process of dying, our bodies release massive amounts of '___', which is a naturally occuring, highly hallucinogenic molecule created right inside of your brain. This is a well known process and can be measured and monitored in real time. As far as your body healing, that is what bodies do. Not to mention the team of doctors who were working on you. Surely they deserve your credit.

I would be far more convinced if you said you walked out of the woods on your own accord, wrapped in the healing hands of jesus and never even needed to go to a hospital. Buy since no miracles occured, this seems to be very normal circumstances. Doctors save people's lives every day. How is this supposed to support the power of prayer?

originally posted by: visitedbythem
One last note:
I was back to work in a steel mill in 31 days. Everybody was confused and amazed

I know an atheist who has a very similar story. He does not attribute his recovery to supernatural intervention.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I do not care if the majority follow or not. Since they held the false belief that entanglement and quantum leap only happen near absolute zero, I do think they have a high ability to follow where the data leads. Still playing around with left glove/right glove.

But then it does not matter that much anymore what Western scientist think since the Chinese are pushing forward now no matter what the western scientist choose to accept.

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Woodcarver

What are you reffering to as CBT?

You give me a headache, im out.. Good luck with your research, dont listen to much to yourself, wont do any good.

Yes, thinking is difficult. It should be left to professionals.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Woodcarver

I do not care if the majority follow or not. Since they held the false belief that entanglement and quantum leap only happen near absolute zero, I do think they have a high ability to follow where the data leads. Still playing around with left glove/right glove.

But then it does not matter that much anymore what Western scientist think since the Chinese are pushing forward now no matter what the western scientist choose to accept.

First off, what does this have to do with prayer? Second, why can't some of you write in complete ledgable sentences?

Quantum computers have been around for a while now.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Blind faith is decribing your trust in something that cannot be proven.

That is your description of something I call faith that does not have the blind component you put on it . Show me one verse in the Bible that says blind faith .You can't because its just not there .You are creating a kind of straw man fallacy that only you and others have to construct to justify or try to tear down others belief . You may be convinced but I am not .I could say in a similar construct that you need to show me proof that God does not exist . But that would be using the failed logic you are using .

a reply to: Woodcarver

You lack the specialization to know what you are talking about and believe you are right without really testing and measuring.

One day humanity will understand entangled information exchange and how the information go from raw data to subjective awareness including the data degradation. But if a person do not want to crack the code and ignore it then someone else will.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

Blind faith is decribing your trust in something that cannot be proven.

That is your description of something I call faith that does not have the blind component you put on it . Show me one verse in the Bible that says blind faith .You can't because its just not there .You are creating a kind of straw man fallacy that only you and others have to construct to justify or try to tear down others belief . You may be convinced but I am not .I could say in a similar construct that you need to show me proof that God does not exist . But that would be using the failed logic you are using .

Faith or blind faith, i see no difference. You know very well that it is impossible to disprove the existance of anything. I can prove this by asking you to disprove unicorns or dragons. It is well known that you can not prove a negative. Sorry, but that is the weakest of arguments.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I really hope you dont consider yourself as a smart person just cause you question "Praying", you dont deduct a single line of information in your subjective view, its full of logical fallacies, since there is no science to praying.

What praying does is in the mind.

You have the mentaltity of a five year old child questioning a single word, and you want us to treat you like an adult?

I try to explain things to you like i do to my 3 year old nephew, and you still dont understand, yet he does.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Faith or blind faith, i see no difference. You know very well that it is impossible to disprove the existance of anything. I can prove this by asking you to disprove unicorns or dragons. It is well known that you can not prove a negative. Sorry, but that is the weakest of arguments.

I was not trying to make that argument either and you could have saved your time in trying to suggest that I was if you would have read my post and or tried to understand what I said . I know for a fact that there is a thing called love and I dont need you to say that it can't be proven scientifically and there for does not exist . I think it is you that are creating your own mental gymnastic hoops to jump through and expecting others to do the same . Sell your un-belief to unbelievers , they will buy it .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

Faith or blind faith, i see no difference. You know very well that it is impossible to disprove the existance of anything. I can prove this by asking you to disprove unicorns or dragons. It is well known that you can not prove a negative. Sorry, but that is the weakest of arguments.

I was not trying to make that argument either and you could have saved your time in trying to suggest that I was if you would have read my post and or tried to understand what I said . I know for a fact that there is a thing called love and I dont need you to say that it can't be proven scientifically and there for does not exist . I think it is you that are creating your own mental gymnastic hoops to jump through and expecting others to do the same . Sell your un-belief to unbelievers , they will buy it .

Lol. You brought up proving that god does not exist, i simply answered your question. We are on page 7 now and nobody has offered a single explanation on how or why prayer works. All i have been offered is what ifs, deflections, runabouts and ad hominim attacks. Does anyone care to answer my question? Or is this convo finished?