How does prayer work?

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

not accepted in any serious scientific circles. When/if he comes with some hard proof, then he will be taken serious

And where might the scientific circle be that would be even willing to take it seriously . Should he ask the ancientest that were behind his banning on the TED talk ? Seriously ! ...You make a claim that energy can't be created or destroyed but coming from literature of serious scientific circles we hear words about dark matter and dark energy . It is a theory and may just be a abrogation of math . There seems to be a lot we don't know about the things we do know about .

There seems to be a lot about our scientific understanding that you do not understand. Have you studied any specific field of science? Do you hold any degrees which would give your opinions any weight? I see many noneducated members here question the validity of certain fields, but perhaps it is your lack of understanding which leads to your confusion. Where did you go to university?

I would assume with all of the religious minded scientists in the world, there would be no problem finding a base of people who would be willing to seriously look at many of these claims and try to come to some kind of consensus that could lead to an actual scientific discovery that could prove the existence of God's and therefore the effectiveness of prayer? With all of the funds floating around in the religious circles, why are these funds not used to investigate all of the supernatural claims that the scientists apparently believe without an inkling of proof? If God is ever to be proven to exist it will be done by means of the scientific method. There has never been a better method of discerning truth from fantasy. Why would science not be utilized To finally prove without a doubt which of the world's religions is valid?

If prayer were able to alter reality, would we still have free will?

Say I prayed for someone to get over a sickness and that resulted in them becoming healthy again, wouldn't that interfere with that individual's free will?

Will the rules of this reality allow that?

originally posted by: Dnied
a reply to: tikbalang

It's because you speak in parables my friend.

Being honest has a tendency to enforce conflict with "Hooomans"

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Dnied
a reply to: Woodcarver

Why don't you answer your question then? Give it all you got.

I do not have an explanation as to why people believe that prayer is effective. As I don't believe that it is.I am looking for someone to explain how and why prayer is effective.

I just did.. but your " rational " mind won't accept it. Perhaps it is too logical in its mysticism for you ?

What are the " paranormal" realms in scientific study? There is that aspect to look at as well.

You're like a child that wants a cookie and when given the cookie , tosses it away because he didn't care for the color of it.

I can see now why you said you have never receieved a rational answer.. you don't want one ( which is what I felt in my heart when I prayed about how to answer your OP)

Peace and God bless... by the way Jesus taught his disciples the Lords prayer .. which is a fine example of how to pray.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Woodcarver

Im pretty sure if that was an issue understanding most thing I will say will be misunderstood

What? I assume english is not your strong suite.

Common sense I guess is not yours?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I am just a mild observer with a opinion .If you are looking for a PHD or a level of education ,you have a web load to choose from . While thinking within myself two words came to mind .You used one "placebo" and the other one is hypochondria .Things that make you go mmmm.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

Does not the search for answers require speculation within scientific circles ? Does not scientist invent theories to help guide them into what they have speculated about ? Now we can understand that its not only about the data but how you handle the data .I think Einstein said that he could show you 1000 reasons why he could be correct but all that was needed was 1 legitimate reason why he would be wrong . If all you need is 1 reason to believe what you believe then fine .But if you pass over all other reasons that contradict your idea ,you may be guilty of bias .

Are you trained in any discipline of science? Where did you go to university? Which fields do you hold degrees in? I can plainly see that you do not understand that quote from einstien. He is saying that it only takes one fact to disprove a theory. Even if 1000 points of investigation support this theory. This does not invalidate the 1000 points that do support it. It simply means that the 1 point does not support it and the theory must be put together in such a way that all points are supportive.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
If prayer were able to alter reality, would we still have free will?

Say I prayed for someone to get over a sickness and that resulted in them becoming healthy again, wouldn't that interfere with that individual's free will?

Will the rules of this reality allow that?

It would first need to be proven that your prayers were the cause of the recovery. So far, this has never been accomplished. Otherwise, i do not understand how free will is even a point of that particular problem. Are you implying that it is that individuals will to be sick?

a reply to: Woodcarver

TextIf God is ever to be proven to exist it will be done by means of the scientific method. There has never been a better method of discerning truth from fantasy. Why would science not be utilized To finally prove without a doubt which of the world's religions is valid?

Most if not all PHD's and scientist that pray have read the bible and know what it says on the matter and also know that what you require for proof is not the kind of proof God is going to give . We don't make demands on the Creator .

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Dnied
a reply to: Woodcarver

Why don't you answer your question then? Give it all you got.

I do not have an explanation as to why people believe that prayer is effective. As I don't believe that it is.I am looking for someone to explain how and why prayer is effective.

I just did.. but your " rational " mind won't accept it. Perhaps it is too logical in its mysticism for you ?

What are the " paranormal" realms in scientific study? There is that aspect to look at as well.

You're like a child that wants a cookie and when given the cookie , tosses it away because he didn't care for the color of it.

I can see now why you said you have never receieved a rational answer.. you don't want one ( which is what I felt in my heart when I prayed about how to answer your OP)

Peace and God bless... by the way Jesus taught his disciples the Lords prayer .. which is a fine example of how to pray.

Would you care to repeat this explanation? Perhaps i have overlooked it or simply did not understand it? Please make it detailed and concise.

originally posted by: tikbalang

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Woodcarver

Im pretty sure if that was an issue understanding most thing I will say will be misunderstood

What? I assume english is not your strong suite.

Common sense I guess is not yours?

that does not explain why your posts are unreadable.

a reply to: Woodcarver

If you were able to change another person's reality through prayer, wouldn't that interfere with that person's own free will?

Maybe that person didn't request your help.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

I am just a mild observer with a opinion .If you are looking for a PHD or a level of education ,you have a web load to choose from . While thinking within myself two words came to mind .You used one "placebo" and the other one is hypochondria .Things that make you go mmmm.

I'm just concerned that your lack of education has led you to some confusing ideas of how science is utilized to come to understanding various aspects of reality. Without proper training it would be near impossible for you to disapprove any aspects of science that you disagree with. And furthermore that your disagreement stems from the fact that you don't understand the tenets that you argue with.

a reply to: ClovenSky

If you were able to change another person's reality through prayer, wouldn't that interfere with that person's own free will? Maybe that person didn't request your help.

Not if that person wanted to get better .There is a difference between prayer and help .Some things go without saying ...just saying .

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: tikbalang

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Woodcarver

Im pretty sure if that was an issue understanding most thing I will say will be misunderstood

What? I assume english is not your strong suite.

Common sense I guess is not yours?

that does not explain why your posts are unreadable.

Actually it does, giving information or planting a doubt are to separate things, one let's you research by yourself while the other is blind faith.. Children walk in blind faith..

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Dnied
a reply to: Woodcarver

Why don't you answer your question then? Give it all you got.

I do not have an explanation as to why people believe that prayer is effective. As I don't believe that it is.I am looking for someone to explain how and why prayer is effective.

I just did.. but your " rational " mind won't accept it. Perhaps it is too logical in its mysticism for you ?

What are the " paranormal" realms in scientific study? There is that aspect to look at as well.

You're like a child that wants a cookie and when given the cookie , tosses it away because he didn't care for the color of it.

I can see now why you said you have never receieved a rational answer.. you don't want one ( which is what I felt in my heart when I prayed about how to answer your OP)

Peace and God bless... by the way Jesus taught his disciples the Lords prayer .. which is a fine example of how to pray.

Would you care to repeat this explanation? Perhaps i have overlooked it or simply did not understand it? Please make it detailed and concise.

Can you not read...prayer saved my life at least twice .. but if you are wanting all the details you are breaking T&C's because I have already told you they are personal stories that would almost take a chapter to explain.. and that is just a few.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I believe you used the term scientific consensus earlier on as a way of validating . Is consensus by a group of scientist ,science ? Some scientists only get validated many years after their death .At the time they were alive they were up against a consensus . fact .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

TextIf God is ever to be proven to exist it will be done by means of the scientific method. There has never been a better method of discerning truth from fantasy. Why would science not be utilized To finally prove without a doubt which of the world's religions is valid?

Most if not all PHD's and scientist that pray have read the bible and know what it says on the matter and also know that what you require for proof is not the kind of proof God is going to give . We don't make demands on the Creator .

as far as I can tell it is simply an assertion that God or his works cannot be probed by scientific investigation. This assertion has sprung up by those who are not scientifically minded to explain the reason that God or his works cannot be scientifically probed. I know very few scientifically trained people who believe in any thing supernatural, and those who do believe in the supernatural, certainly wouldn't include any super natural causes as an explanation for anything.

a reply to: tikbalang

Actually it does, giving information or planting a doubt are to separate things, one let's you research by yourself while the other is blind faith.. Children walk in blind faith..

Because we cant give out half stars you get a whole one

a reply to: Woodcarver

Well the consensus shows that its a mixed bag for sure .