Trump Administration Orders Communications Blackout For US Scientists

originally posted by: bananasam
ATS has long been a place where people complain about government silencing them. In many cases, these were nut job stories.

This is such a blatant wide spread account of government quieting dissent on such a mass scale average people (who don't visit boards like this) are talking about. This is no conspiracy. This is real.

Defend these scientists' right to speak. Even if you have differences. Because one day, the government will come knocking on your door. And then who you will ask for help?

Well said bananasam. When international news corporations like Reuters and the Associated Press put these accounts on the wire, there is little doubt of their veracity. Between them, the BBC, Al Jazeera and the International Times the story should come together. The truth is out there.

originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: bananasam
ATS has long been a place where people complain about government silencing them. In many cases, these were nut job stories.

This is such a blatant wide spread account of government quieting dissent on such a mass scale average people (who don't visit boards like this) are talking about. This is no conspiracy. This is real.

Defend these scientists' right to speak. Even if you have differences. Because one day, the government will come knocking on your door. And then who you will ask for help?

[i]Well said bananasam. When international news corporations like Reuters and the Associated Press put these accounts on the wire, there is little doubt of their veracity. Between them, the BBC, Al Jazeera and the International Times the story should come together. The truth is out there.

Try this again...I believe the truth is out there....I just don't believe in the "veracity" of any of the news sources sited.......

edit on 26-1-2017 by WilliamtheResolute because: (no reason given)

Sorry, wrong thread....

This happens when ever there is a new administration. Fake news..move along.

a reply to: soficrow

Here's a pro tip.

Try creating a title for your OP that isn't an outright lie.

originally posted by: DomTullipso
a reply to: soficrow

Here's a pro tip.

Try creating a title for your OP that isn't an outright lie.

The title is from the article.

That's how it's supposed to be done. Board rules.

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011

originally posted by: UKTruth
Hopefully this means he is going to kill all the global warming fascism and start opening up the debate.

Time to bury Al Gore!

Remember in Al Gore's 2006 movie "An Inconvenient Truth" when he said that in 10 years Mt. Kilimanjaro will have no snow?

Mt. Kilimanjaro in 2016. Talk about inconvenient.




The problem with these organizations is that they are filled with partisan hacks that will do anything they can to stifle the current administration and any progress that can be made under Trump. It's a disservice to the country and the American people.

#DTS

This thread is NOT about 'climate change.'

It's about preventing another "Dark Ages" in science. It's about preventing corporate industry from owning and manipulating critical data -that WE pay for- about our world and our health. Like how Big Pharma used "Confidentiality Agreements" to bury life-saving and world-saving information on prions and prion disease for half a century.

Wake up. Please.

a reply to: soficrow

We pay for military black projects as well. Doesn't mean we'll ever know 90% of them.

a reply to: soficrow

Im not going to comment on the politics or the conspiracy. I will comment, however, on the state of science. I hope that I am recognized as someone who respects the scientific method and common standards of logic (even if i fail from time to time). So I say this with concern and compassion:

What we call "science" has become a bastardized stepchild of science and monetization. There is growing concern over the validity of what we call "accepted science". Sometimes on the most fundamental levels. And it likely isn't particularly nefarious....there just isn't much grant money available to fact check journal publications. And without someone funding it, we don't work for free.

Im not sure there is an answer, short of the community self policing. And journals redefining standards. The end result needs to be humanity placing value on papers that don't fit the hypothesis. We need to embrace the unknown, rather than devaluing it and grabbing ahold of a discovered truth (even when that truth is wrong).

Should government be involved? Not likely very much, as they tend to weaponize information. From a national security standpoint they likely should have some oversight on what flows into the information stream.

On principle I can see why we are angry with Trump. In fact, however, I am not so sure its a bad thing. We, as people, want to believe scientists to be fact dealers. The reality is often very far from the truth, especially when lobby's get involved.

ETA: i guess what i am saying is that "science" tends to cherry pick for publication, leaving reams and reams of experiments that had inconclusive data. From the perspective of someone who has made a career out of extrapolative data reporting, I cannot tell you how wrong that is. We don't have "open science" as it is. Im unsure that Trump muzzling scientists does much to close science. I could trot out a dozen instances of bad science creating policy that was eventually reversed for being folly.

originally posted by: Crumbles
a reply to: soficrow

We pay for military black projects as well. Doesn't mean we'll ever know 90% of them.

Are you honestly saying the need for secrecy in military black projects means it's right to keep all science secret? Like the Catholics did with Galileo and Copernicus? Like Darwin and his cronies lying about the mating habits of female Arctic birds? Like Big Pharma using "Confidentiality Agreements" to bury life-saving and world-saving information on prions and prion disease for half a century?

We've been here before. That time used to be called the "Dark Ages."

We do not need another "Dark Ages" in science. We do not want the Church, or corporate industry owning and manipulating critical data -that WE pay for- about our world and our health.



Seriously?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The irony here, is that if one were to assume that the main reason for the disconnect between some current government members on the right, and climate scientists for example, was lobbying, well... one of the most powerful lobby groups out there, is the oil industry.

If science was for sale, then 97% of scientists involved with climate related sciences and research, would NEVER dare utter a word about climate change being partially to do with carbon emissions, human activity in industry, or anything else like that. It would mean they would be defunded in a heart beat!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

...What we call "science" has become a bastardized stepchild of science and monetization. ...

I agree, and stipulate that this has always been the case. The Catholics gagged Galileo and Copernicus - Darwin and his cronies lied about the mating habits of female Arctic birds - Big Pharma used "Confidentiality Agreements" to bury life-saving and world-saving information on prions and prion disease for half a century.

I do not believe handing science -and scientific data- over to private ownership is the answer. How 'bout we let Open Access play out for a while longer. The Open Access system is quite new after all, historically speaking. Maybe scientific rigor will win out this time around.

Nobody is going to convince the Trump fascists on these forums of anything... I only hope these Nazi's are eventually dealt with appropriately. Trump belongs at the end of a rope.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
There should be a black out on science dissemination until all lobbyists are corralled and hanged.

Well there goes Trump's cabinet and staff?

Is there a particular agency over the past 8 years you believe issued false science at the behest of lobbyists? I'd be interested in the evidence and links.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soficrow

Im not going to comment on the politics or the conspiracy. I will comment, however, on the state of science. I hope that I am recognized as someone who respects the scientific method and common standards of logic (even if i fail from time to time). So I say this with concern and compassion:

What we call "science" has become a bastardized stepchild of science and monetization. There is growing concern over the validity of what we call "accepted science". Sometimes on the most fundamental levels.

Wouldn't that make Public (government funded) research all the more vital in the face of privately funded science tainted by corporate interests?

It's not really hard to see thru Trumps BS. He only wants to fund projects that fit into his extreme alt right agenda.

I can see him shutting down all sorts of educational departments. All part of the corpratist plan to dumb down Americans.

originally posted by: Konduit


Remember in Al Gore's 2006 movie "An Inconvenient Truth" when he said that in 10 years Mt. Kilimanjaro will have no snow?

Mt. Kilimanjaro in 2016. Talk about inconvenient.

And now look at it in the summer months...



Kilimanjaro is known for it's YEAR ROUND snow.

BTW - NO ONE Disputes that Kilamanjaro glaciers and snow are dramatically decreasing.

It is about how long it will take for the summer snowcap to completely disappear.

The scientist who predicted 10 years when Gore made that movie has corrected himself. When any of the paid climate denier "scientists" correct any part of their mountain of BS, maybe we can have a discussion.

No one contests that the glaciers have retreated. Photographs show they have shrunk in area by more than 80 percent since 1912. In fact, glaciers from the Alps to the Andes have retreated dramatically since 1900.

www.masslive.com...

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
There should be a black out on science dissemination until all lobbyists are corralled and hanged.

Well there goes Trump's cabinet and staff?

Is there a particular agency over the past 8 years you believe issued false science at the behest of lobbyists? I'd be interested in the evidence and links.

Best not to get all your science news from govt. agencies.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soficrow

Im not going to comment on the politics or the conspiracy. I will comment, however, on the state of science. I hope that I am recognized as someone who respects the scientific method and common standards of logic (even if i fail from time to time). So I say this with concern and compassion:

What we call "science" has become a bastardized stepchild of science and monetization. There is growing concern over the validity of what we call "accepted science". Sometimes on the most fundamental levels.

Wouldn't that make Public (government funded) research all the more vital in the face of privately funded science tainted by corporate interests?

If government wasn't the lapdog of the corporate world, perhaps.

But when i look at the wolves on Wall Street on one side, and the jackals in DC on the other, im not feeling that The People have any allies that won't lie to and manipulate them incessantly.