Losing civilities not to offend Transgenders

a reply to: dogstar23

All very reasonable expectations.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: ketsuko

Honestly in my opinion this issue is helping give the locker room the attention it deserved in the first place. It's not compounding the issue so much as taking a serious problem that's gone under the radar and bringing it front and center. The clear answer that almost everyone can accept is, locker rooms need to go the way of the dodo and individual privacy needs to become the status quo. Should cooler heads prevail this is exactly what we will get and have needed long before this became an issue.

Valid point, as are many you have made. Though I don't always agree, you post in a civil fashion, and can fully understand why some folks get upset regarding these issues. Regarding an earlier post, concerning the activists and how they cause problems, have you ever wondered if some of that isn't deliberate? I have wondered, a few times, if there aren't people actually trying to cause issues for people like yourself, under the guise of activism. I hope that isn't the case. While I don't approve, personally, of catering to the ideas of being the opposite sex, I can respect personal decisions on such matters, and won't be nasty to someone who is otherwise behaving like anyone else. I don't approve of polyamorous relationships, either, but have a friend who is in one. She knows where I stand, and we just don't make it an issue.

On the locker rooms, the problem I see is that a lot of places would take on a lot of expense, to convert to private facilities. Many places, the cost would be prohibitive. Some pools, for example, that we have visited, have a setup that wouldn't allow total privacy. There are curtains for showers, and toilet stalls, but there wouldn't be a way to have a lot of private entrances. With the open space, there would still be opportunities to see problems. We can't eliminate all of those.

a reply to: Puppylove

I hear you friend.

Kindergarten was culture shock. I had no idea how to boy and couldn't understand why people kept telling me to do things I didn't want to do and expecting me to be a certain way that I wasn't. I was a stubborn little snot though and just continued to be me because I didn't know how to be anyone else and wasn't going to fake it to make other people happy or like me better. Even as a teen I wasn't playing anyone else's game which would have made things hella easier but wouldn't have been true to myself or real.

I hope that people don't think we've shared our stories here in some self-aggrandizing manner, for attention, special consideration or victim points? It is just to illustrate that people like us are human and have thoughts, opinions and feelings like anyone else does and that many of us are also a little bit bent with all the made up genders and forced pronouns because it does hurt the issues of those that truly are trans. Posts like LadyGreenEyes' demonstrate the push back this is causing. Hell, even trans people like YouTubers Blaire White, Yorick, Mathew C, Danica Lee and so on are speaking out against transtrenders.

I can hang with they/their as gender non-descriptive pronouns as it is and always has been grammatically correct to do so and many people have already been doing this without realizing it. Like you though, ze, and zir and hir can all go take a hike but if it were a matter of being disrespectful to someone's face, I might at least try to use them even if I thought they were silly. Hell, I've been called a lot worse when I was in high school and around here than the wrong pronoun but this snowflake hasn't melted yet.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Part of the problem with activism is that it constantly needs a cause because that's where the money is.

Once the LBGT + What Other Letter We Are Adding This Week movement got past gay marriage, they needed a new one and guess who needed to have the bathroom access they pretty much already had formally acknowledged and protected under law and brought out of the closet so we could all fight about it and they could keep their money?

Are there some things that could be hammered out? Probably. Was this the best way to go about it? I don't think so.

Again, part of the problem with the activist approach is that it tends to make these issues binary so that what one group gains another must lose. There is no compromise ever sought, and the fight ensures that no one ever feels good about how it all goes down in the end which only increases animus and social angst on both sides of the issue.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

And this reaction is why the deviants and SJW's frustrate normal transgendered. It's a reasonable frustration to have, and it harms us, because we're not the ones actually pushing for this crap, but are lumped in because this is all loudly claimed in our names.

Same, I'd imagine, for people who are homosexual, and just want to lead a quiet life. The ones who are "in your face" about it make them look bad, by association. Same for any group, really.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Golantrevize

It's getting crazy pretty much everywhere. I live in the states and my accountant friend who just began working for a college told me everyone in his department has to put down "their preferred gender, he or she or whatever in between" in the signature line of their emails.

Now every single email has this at the bottom.

I think I'd sign mine as "Master of the Universe" or something to that effect, just to be annoying!!

Yes or really stud like old school ladies man.......the kind of lover that the ladies dream about.

Now that would be priceless! If it's how you "identify", though, how could anyone complain?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Part of the problem with activism is that it constantly needs a cause because that's where the money is.

Once the LBGT + What Other Letter We Are Adding This Week movement got past gay marriage, they needed a new one and guess who needed to have the bathroom access they pretty much already had formally acknowledged and protected under law and brought out of the closet so we could all fight about it and they could keep their money?

Are there some things that could be hammered out? Probably. Was this the best way to go about it? I don't think so.

Again, part of the problem with the activist approach is that it tends to make these issues binary so that what one group gains another must lose. There is no compromise ever sought, and the fight ensures that no one ever feels good about how it all goes down in the end which only increases animus and social angst on both sides of the issue.

Quite accurate, and I wonder how much many pushing the stuff even care about the group they claim to want to protect! very little, I'd guess, much of the time! How many years have we had people who appeared to be the opposite sex? Quite a few. If they look it, no one would even notice them in a restroom. Now, because of all the attention, someone is more likely to notice, and that could end up leading to real problems.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Take a good guess would work, too.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Part of the problem with activism is that it constantly needs a cause because that's where the money is.

Once the LBGT + What Other Letter We Are Adding This Week movement got past gay marriage, they needed a new one and guess who needed to have the bathroom access they pretty much already had formally acknowledged and protected under law and brought out of the closet so we could all fight about it and they could keep their money?

Are there some things that could be hammered out? Probably. Was this the best way to go about it? I don't think so.

Again, part of the problem with the activist approach is that it tends to make these issues binary so that what one group gains another must lose. There is no compromise ever sought, and the fight ensures that no one ever feels good about how it all goes down in the end which only increases animus and social angst on both sides of the issue.

You make a great point.

I it was Freija I had a conversation with a while ago about all of the different gender identities.

Imagine that you are transgendered. Now I don't know the medical science behind this, and I am not going to pretend to. But as a transgender, you struggle to be treated in the best possible way.

All of the sudden, people come along saying "Yeah I am just like them, except I believe I am part tree! I demand special treatment!"

This is the best situation I can compare it to.

Some people had questions about 9-11, like how did our military fail to intercept the third plane. All of the sudden, someone comes along and yells, "Yeah and all of the planes were holograms!" This actually happened. Now the first person gets lumped in with the ridiculous second person.

You are right that the envelope will always be pushed, but that is not a reason to through all arguments out. For example, I am for gay marriage, even though some activists gays used it as an excuse to go victim shopping and find the one bakery that didn't want to provide a cake for their wedding.

Thats why I can understand people like Freija and Puppylove being the most angry about these attention seekers that are constantly seeking trouble and trying to speak for people they have no right to.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Regarding an earlier post, concerning the activists and how they cause problems, have you ever wondered if some of that isn't deliberate? I have wondered, a few times, if there aren't people actually trying to cause issues for people like yourself, under the guise of activism. I hope that isn't the case.

Absolutely they do. All the Al Sharptons of the world are anything but friends of the community they claim to speak for. I'm also fully a believer the democratic party never truly changed at all, they simply changed tactics. Instead of attacking us directly, they instead attempt to get us to undermine ourselves under the guise of helping hands. In truth they are trying to hobble us and make us their dependents. They attempt to push minorities into slums and squalor forcing us into crime to survive and dependents on the state, then do everything the can to protect the criminal element and undermine any attempts for minorities to gain dependence. The democratic party is still the party of the KKK any claims they make about supporting the republican party is mostly to get people to vote democrat which they really want. Many would love to push a minority verses majority war. Why because they know we'd all lose because in the aftermath both the minority and majority would be torn down into manageable numbers, thus removing our risk to themselves, and then they can truly put us in chains.

While I don't approve, personally, of catering to the ideas of being the opposite sex, I can respect personal decisions on such matters, and won't be nasty to someone who is otherwise behaving like anyone else. I don't approve of polyamorous relationships, either, but have a friend who is in one. She knows where I stand, and we just don't make it an issue.

That's just being an adult.

On the locker rooms, the problem I see is that a lot of places would take on a lot of expense, to convert to private facilities. Many places, the cost would be prohibitive. Some pools, for example, that we have visited, have a setup that wouldn't allow total privacy. There are curtains for showers, and toilet stalls, but there wouldn't be a way to have a lot of private entrances. With the open space, there would still be opportunities to see problems. We can't eliminate all of those.

Complete elimination is impossible, but much of the problem is as you said, an economic one. Changes need to be made, changes cost money, and those not wanting to spend the money would rather have everyone unhappy than fork over a dime for the compromise the people on both sides could live with.

a reply to: Puppylove

All right.

Let's see.

Where do you propose we come up with the money to basically rebuild every single junior and high school in the entire country? Is that a local, state, or federal expenditure? On what time table does all this need to be completed?

And that's just one classification of public building that would need to be addressed.

a reply to: ketsuko

Why do you think I have the answers to all that? I never said it was easy, nor that it could be done tomorrow.

It, however, like many things needs to happen, and once it's done once it shouldn't need to again. Also not just for reasons of the transgender issue.

I'm not unreasonable with my expectations. A start would be to recognize the issue and at minimum, make such considerations a requirement of all new construction, and any major renovations to existing structures.

Until we can get where we need to be, we just need to figure out how to coexist peacefully in the interim.

I don't claim to have all the answers.

Though isn't Trump on a giant infrastructure kick? Maybe we can get this in there somehow. Heck might be a good platform to get support from both sides. Shoot I'm all for that compromise. Why aren't you? Isn't the big complaint a lack of compromise? What is this if not one that satisfies all parties, including those just plain not comfortable in public locker rooms period?

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Being loud annoying SJW assholes is how people make their point on the national stage. You see the same thing on both sides in Presidential elections. Mass Media isn't known for nuance.

originally posted by: VinylTyrant
WHO CARES ABOUT TRANSGENDERS???,

Whatever the hell that even means.

Male/female. You don't get to choose. You're born one or the other.period.

Unless you're born both...or neither. But I'm guessing this post was more of a knee jerk reaction and less of a well thought out rebuttal.

Personally, I hated gym class. I hated the showering. I was very shy in high school. There was more than one time I'd fake it and skip the shower, because I'm one of those fortunate people to don't really sweat much or often and so it was never an issue. All of my worst memories from school (at any level) all have to do with gym class.

That whole system needs to be re-worked.

...but on-wards.

I don't have an issue with the LGBT+Alphabet.

I do have a problem with the activists who want to push those issues and agendas and want to make me have to learn 2349853958 new gender identities when most days I'm pretty lucky to just remember my own damn name.

One thing to note though, it seems like so many of the activists do NOT want compromise...they want to/expect to be worked into the existing infrastructure, gods-be-damned how anyone ELSE feels about it. It's about what they want. Because compromise singles them out as different which ostracizes them...despite the fact they are being different....the circular nature of the whole thing makes my head ache.

Not everyone on any side of this is being unreasonable, but some people on all sides are....just seems like the loudest complainers and least reasonable are the ones setting the dialogue instead of the more reasonable people.

But as for me, I just use people's names as much as possible or sir or ma'am based on shallow appearance and if I can't tell and don't know their name I ask their name lol...I lived most of my life with this not being a thing...and I'm gonna do my best to live the rest of it as though it isn't...it's a battle for another generation to figure out and good luck with that. lol.

originally posted by: Golantrevize
The SAAQ ( société d assurance automobile du Québec ), Government agency in charge of insurance and driving license of the province of Québec just put a new politic in place preventing all the employees to call customers Monsieur and Madame after a Man in the process of becoming a 'woman' was wrongfully called monsieur.

Political correctness madness at its best.

It's why I don't 'subscribe' to that brand of crap...haven't for the longest time.

I don't care with what one identifies as...that's up to them, but nature gave us TWO genders...male and female...and that's according to what reproductive organs you're born with - END OF STORY.

No one and no group deserve special rights over the normal rights of the people. That is by definition...discrimination.

There are two sexes...male and female. That is a 100% proven fact. There is also sexual preference and that should be kept personal and shared with their partner. Then there is "trans" which is nothing but a mind in need of help.

A person who claims to be Napoleon gets mental health attention. A person who cuts themselves because they believe there are bugs under their skin gets mental health attention and anyone who calls themselves God gets sent for a mental health screening. It is only with "trans" that instead of treating the obvious mental problem, we change the body. We don't change a person into Napoleon, we don't stuff bugs under people's skin and we don't dress insane people up as God. But we do with "trans" people.

What a shame! That is likely why the suicide rate of "trans" people is so high. Even after they get what their mind tells them they need...they still kill themselves in record numbers. Well...I guess when you try everything and your mind is still screwed up, that is what you do.

I'm pretty sure if we treated this mentally confused people's mind instead of pretending it is normal and OK...you would have a lot more people alive today. So how do you vote? Let the suicides continue or start treating "trans" people the same way we treat anyone who says they are one thing, that they are obviously not and actually help them.

It is sad when assumptions and simplifications are made when one is entirely ignorant of the subject.

This falls under the category of an opinion, which of course is entirely your prerogative to have but it does make you sound pretty silly with decades and decades of research since the 1920's refuting your statements.

True, trans people are in need of help because gender dysphoria is a medical condition that requires treatment. Those that cannot deal with this issue or get the professional help they need do consider and accomplish suicide at an alarming rate. Unlikely but if perhaps you wish to learn more about this, may I suggest the article: The Truth About Transgender Suicide and possibly this one: Myths About Transition Regrets?

"Real" transgender people are not the ones screaming for special pronouns and 76 different gender classifications. They just want to be treated equally like other men and women.

DP