Losing civilities not to offend Transgenders

a reply to: ketsuko


I don't see why they cant just get special apparel for them in those places...Apparel that keeps the parts covered at all times. Nevre to get completely naked in a changing room.
Also I know that would be like 120%+ easier on their mental health as well...AS they do not match up with the other people in the whatever locker room/ changing room.

a reply to: ketsuko

Honestly in my opinion this issue is helping give the locker room the attention it deserved in the first place. It's not compounding the issue so much as taking a serious problem that's gone under the radar and bringing it front and center. The clear answer that almost everyone can accept is, locker rooms need to go the way of the dodo and individual privacy needs to become the status quo. Should cooler heads prevail this is exactly what we will get and have needed long before this became an issue.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

But the thing is that the issue WAS conflated by the activists.

Do you think the first kid who wanted to the privileges was wanting just to pee in the same bathroom? No. They wanted to change in the same locker rooms too. And then the administration conflated all of this with Title IX which demands now that a person must have access to all the facilities they think they should use -- that includes locker rooms and changing rooms along with bathrooms.

So don't blame this on anyone other than the activists.

If there is "fault" in this conflation, it lay with any who conflate it, activists and conservatives. I personally know folks of both camps who do this. Divide them and everybody might get what they need. The average trans person doesn't give a crap about locker rooms but they damned sure care about not getting a UTI because of unfounded fears.

My point is that they need to be addressed separately because there isn't much of a comparison. For example, you'd probably undress in front of your husband but I'm assuming you don't poop in front of him. That right there tells us how wildly different bathrooms and locker rooms are from each other.

a reply to: Abysha


Nevermind, it was irrelevant, and inaproppriate. Didn't really get a point across.

a reply to: Puppylove

I agree with you on this. Having looked after many transgender females following surgery, in post anaesthetic care, I was once confronted with an individual who was bald with a beard. As a nurse my own feelings are irrelevant in a professional role but it did make me question this individual's motive. She was very quiet post -operatively according to the staff on the ward.

a reply to: Grambler

Before I knew who I was I was a major homophobe and such in school too. I tended to overcompensate to try and fit in, always failed, and never knew quite where my disconnect was at the time. Oddly once I knew who I was it actually became easier to fake being my physical gender as well. I stopped overcompensating and the mask became more successful.

When I was in school I even got in trouble for sexual harassment at one time in school because of trying too hard to fake the piggish way many males hit on women, and went a bit too far without realizing it. Once I found out how what I was doing was being perceived I felt so sick and depressed I was near suicidal.

Once I found out the truth, which involved a tabletop role playing with some real close friends in which we played ourselves. It was a set up by a clever friend, my best friend at the time, to help me find out what they already knew by having me become a girl through magic in the game. That wasn't the cleverest bit though it was turning me male again after I'd been female for awhile. I spent most of the game desperately trying become female again, and that's when I finally realized the truth and found myself.

The overcompensating ended, faking things became easier, and I now knew how to keep a good bit of my sanity because I knew the how and why of where my problems originated.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Because I work on the phones we have to be very careful about using titles because you cant tell from a voice someone's gender.

I have a dear friend that is drop dead gorgeous. She has a deep raspy voice and has had it all her life. She says people call her sir and thinks she is a man when she talks to them on the phone. She says almost always, guys that don't know her and try to hit on her, are taken aback when she speaks. She says she can see the disappointment in their faces and the sudden change back to hopefulness when she tells them, it is okay, she is not a guy, just a girl with an unusual voice.

She is completely desensitized. She said she caught hell as a child, but learned that it was something she could battle with for the rest of her life or embrace. She chose to embrace it. It has become her signature and she loves it.

I will admit that I thought she was transgender when I first met her. We didn't call it that back then. I have a lousy poker face, so she laughed and put me at ease right away. Her husband and children get a kick out of it too. It definitely draws attention to her beauty, because the first thing most people think is, Wow, you would never think she was a guy if she hadn't spoke. Then you feel sheepish, because you jumped to a false conclusion based on some superficial characteristic, and was too embarrassed to ask.

Her humor and generosity constantly reminds me just how a great a person she is.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Would that matter? They're still the same person you liked enough to go out with 5 seconds prior.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Would that matter? They're still the same person you liked enough to go out with 5 seconds prior.

Can't have a child is the most rational response. Yes, could adopt, but that's not the same thing as flesh and blood. This would be assuming he ever wants to have a child or thinks it'd ever be an issue.

originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Would that matter? They're still the same person you liked enough to go out with 5 seconds prior.

Can't have a child is the most rational response. Yes, could adopt, but that's not the same thing as flesh and blood. This would be assuming he ever wants to have a child or thinks it'd ever be an issue.

Surrogates can now take DNA from two parents. My neighbor is doing this for a gay couple in the UK. The baby will have both fathers' DNA.

I called it witchcraft but she said "SCIENCE!"

a reply to: Abysha


I was actually trolling earlier, but that actually doesn't feel right at all...Selfish. And that kid will have to live its entire life being "created" this way??

a reply to: jonnywhite

I don't know about you but I'm not thinking about children early into going out with someone. That's just a bit creepy. Besides I don't think children play into it for most people, because those who are sterile aren't met with the same dislike.

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a reply to: Puppylove

(((APPLAUSE)))


Here's to common sense breaking out all over the place!! Or someplaces, in others, still some work to be done, obviously.

originally posted by: Mousygretchen
a reply to: Abysha


I was actually trolling earlier, but that actually doesn't feel right at all...Selfish. And that kid will have to live its entire life being "created" this way??

As opposed to what? Created a different way? The surrogate's DNA isn't present so it's simply an embryo with two sets of genes just like any other embryo.

As far as it being selfish? I would have argued that at one time. In fact, my spouse and I wanted to adopt for years but there are so many unrealistic gatekeepers barring the average family from doing so. I also realize that some people feel that biological need to continue their own "line". We felt that adopting overrode our desire for that but not everybody feels that way. I don't think it's selfish anymore.

a reply to: seagull

If only it were more, you know, actually common.

a reply to: Advantage

Hurts no one to be polite. Least of all yourself.

I identify as straight white male. A stereotypical one, almost.

I don't care if the guy standing next to me in a public bathroom once was female and now isn't--because the next guy I check out in the bathroom will be the first. One, it's none of my business whether that guy wasn't always one. He is now, and will be judged, or not, on that criteria alone.

IMHO, and naming no names, but some of you really need to get a grip. Are you all so threatened that you must needs take it out on others who's sole crime, if crime it is, is that they're different? That says more about you, and it isn't anything good, then it does them.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Good rule to live by. There isn't, however, an additional corollary that reads "Unless they're different...in which case it doesn't apply."

a reply to: Puppylove

Meh. Eventually we'll all grow up. Maybe not today, but eventually.

The fact that the issue is being talked about, however reluctantly, and with fits of bigotry, is a positive sign, IMSNHO.

You have, obviously, an entirely different angle on this than I do. But I think we're on the same page, more or less.

Ive learned so much here... I do thank you all, but Puppy and Freija in particular. It has to be scary.. even online.. to lay yourself bare. I recognize the difficulty and the trust you must have in us that you CAN do this without being bashed back into last week

In my parents culture gays werent "bad".. and transgender were basically seen in the same lump with gay. No one was ever harmed or thrown out for this. It just wasnt a HUGE issue. Now in this younger generation, its bad and youll get your ass beat on rez.. they disregard the teachings. Its not just American culture.... but its everything going on that draws us all apart. I cant blame religion for rez kids doing this, but something is. I just thought it was an interesting truth that Id share here. That within a few generations it changes so drastically.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: jonnywhite

I don't know about you but I'm not thinking about children early into going out with someone. That's just a bit creepy. Besides I don't think children play into it for most people, because those who are sterile aren't met with the same dislike.

It's not about thinking about children specifically with the person you are going out with.

Some people just know that eventually they want a family and the standard 2.4 or however many kids it is now per couple. That doesn't mean they are looking with that specific partner at that moment, just someday with someone.