Losing civilities not to offend Transgenders

a reply to: jellyrev

Who is she, or he?

You all better start calling me Lord EU, otherwise you'll hurt my feelings and I'll sue you.

a reply to: Freija

There is a big difference between the problems transgender people undergo, and the imposition of transgender views on the rest of the population.

How do you think many of the women who have been raped by men feel having transgenders, who still are men because they have male genitalia, in women's bathrooms?

What about even the millions of other women who have not been raped, yet don't want to go to the bathroom, or locker rooms, with men who have not undergone sex re-assignement? Those women don't matter? Their safety don't matter?

If you look to me like a woman but are transgendered, I am not going to ask you to prove it, I will address you as what I see you to be. But what about all these other people who want to be called by other pronouns? It's become ridiculous that people want to be called a certain way, and if others don't call them like that people can be sued, or imprisoned. That's insanity.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: butcherguy

Awwww thank you. I try to maintain a level head on most things. But we all fail occasionally I know I have.

Is a very important issue to me though, so I try to keep a level head on it. There's enough crazies out there doing enough damage to the cause by going to extremes.

I'm just doing my part to represent that there's many of us who aren't the loud obnoxious ones you hear about. Honestly what annoys me is how often a big deal is made out of something and the people screaming and making a big deal about it aren't even transgender, but are instead social justice warriors making demands most of us aren't even asking for and as a result making us look worse by association.

And if i had a applause emote i would have added that as well in multiples. But here have a beer instead Its on the house.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

And this reaction is why the deviants and SJW's frustrate normal transgendered. It's a reasonable frustration to have, and it harms us, because we're not the ones actually pushing for this crap, but are lumped in because this is all loudly claimed in our names.

Worse, it could end up promoting resentment that wasn't there before, and end up getting people hurt! That sort of thing helps no one.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Why is it men that are so obssessed with who gets to use women's bathrooms.

Why is it that SJW's made it a political issue. Why is it them who stand outside with signs protesting about it. Its SJW's who are obsessed over it while they abuse transgenders over it so that SJW's can have a voice.

originally posted by: Puppylove

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Regarding an earlier post, concerning the activists and how they cause problems, have you ever wondered if some of that isn't deliberate? I have wondered, a few times, if there aren't people actually trying to cause issues for people like yourself, under the guise of activism. I hope that isn't the case.

Absolutely they do. All the Al Sharptons of the world are anything but friends of the community they claim to speak for. I'm also fully a believer the democratic party never truly changed at all, they simply changed tactics. Instead of attacking us directly, they instead attempt to get us to undermine ourselves under the guise of helping hands. In truth they are trying to hobble us and make us their dependents. They attempt to push minorities into slums and squalor forcing us into crime to survive and dependents on the state, then do everything the can to protect the criminal element and undermine any attempts for minorities to gain dependence. The democratic party is still the party of the KKK any claims they make about supporting the republican party is mostly to get people to vote democrat which they really want. Many would love to push a minority verses majority war. Why because they know we'd all lose because in the aftermath both the minority and majority would be torn down into manageable numbers, thus removing our risk to themselves, and then they can truly put us in chains.

Very true!! It's about power and control, for too many, not helping anyone but themselves. Division, distrust, etc; all further their causes.

originally posted by: Puppylove

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
While I don't approve, personally, of catering to the ideas of being the opposite sex, I can respect personal decisions on such matters, and won't be nasty to someone who is otherwise behaving like anyone else. I don't approve of polyamorous relationships, either, but have a friend who is in one. She knows where I stand, and we just don't make it an issue.

That's just being an adult.

I agree!

originally posted by: Puppylove

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
On the locker rooms, the problem I see is that a lot of places would take on a lot of expense, to convert to private facilities. Many places, the cost would be prohibitive. Some pools, for example, that we have visited, have a setup that wouldn't allow total privacy. There are curtains for showers, and toilet stalls, but there wouldn't be a way to have a lot of private entrances. With the open space, there would still be opportunities to see problems. We can't eliminate all of those.

Complete elimination is impossible, but much of the problem is as you said, an economic one. Changes need to be made, changes cost money, and those not wanting to spend the money would rather have everyone unhappy than fork over a dime for the compromise the people on both sides could live with.

Even some simple privacy measures can help. Curtained shower areas wouldn't cost much, for example, and with an attached changing area, would eliminate some of the concerns.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I'd really prefer not to engage with you due to some of our previous encounters and I don't like you but what the heck. Just know that I' super bored right now, there's nothing good on TV and I don't have anything better to do. If I did, I wouldn't be bothered.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
There is a big difference between the problems transgender people undergo, and the imposition of transgender views on the rest of the population.

Transgender views? Like what?

Do you mean the notion of not being discriminated against in housing, employment and public accommodations, being able to receive adequate healthcare by knowledgeable providers and being treated with the same dignity and respect as "the rest of the population"?

How do you think many of the women who have been raped by men feel having transgenders, who still are men because they have male genitalia, in women's bathrooms?

So the only thing that makes men and women, men and women is their genitalia? What if you lost yours? What would you be? You wouldn't be making an assumption that transgender people are somehow predatory toward other women now would you? Sounds like you've eaten up the propaganda hook, line and sinker?

What about even the millions of other women who have not been raped, yet don't want to go to the bathroom, or locker rooms, with men who have not undergone sex re-assignement? Those women don't matter? Their safety don't matter?

Really fixated on the rape thing aren't you? Or with penises, I can't tell which? In the washroom, how are you going to know someone has a penis unless you're peeping over stalls or through cracks? Bathrooms and locker rooms are different situations that have been discussed earlier in this thread. A person with gender dysphoria is not apt to expose their privates and I expressed my opinion earlier there's no such thing as female peen. I would most likely call the cops if someone was waving their dick around anywhere.

Safety? You do realize that transgender people have been using bathrooms without all these made up problems for like forever? It is sad to see how badly you've been influenced by opinions not backed by reality.

If you look to me like a woman but are transgendered, I am not going to ask you to prove it, I will address you as what I see you to be.

Subjective much? I certainly hope all women meet your appearance standards.

But what about all these other people who want to be called by other pronouns? It's become ridiculous that people want to be called a certain way, and if others don't call them like that people can be sued, or imprisoned. That's insanity.

That's what this thread is about. Try reading it

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Being loud annoying SJW assholes is how people make their point on the national stage. You see the same thing on both sides in Presidential elections. Mass Media isn't known for nuance.

Very true!! It's annoying, though. I'd be more impressed by mature behavior.

I don't think I'll hold my breath on that one.

a reply to: Golantrevize

So I think the worlds leaders are absurd, far more than the unwashed masses are dumb.

No respect left to lose.....

Why do they want this mess of a world as it is?

FFS

What the bell end is going through their minds?

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Grambler

Before I knew who I was I was a major homophobe and such in school too. I tended to overcompensate to try and fit in, always failed, and never knew quite where my disconnect was at the time. Oddly once I knew who I was it actually became easier to fake being my physical gender as well. I stopped overcompensating and the mask became more successful.

When I was in school I even got in trouble for sexual harassment at one time in school because of trying too hard to fake the piggish way many males hit on women, and went a bit too far without realizing it. Once I found out how what I was doing was being perceived I felt so sick and depressed I was near suicidal.

Once I found out the truth, which involved a tabletop role playing with some real close friends in which we played ourselves. It was a set up by a clever friend, my best friend at the time, to help me find out what they already knew by having me become a girl through magic in the game. That wasn't the cleverest bit though it was turning me male again after I'd been female for awhile. I spent most of the game desperately trying become female again, and that's when I finally realized the truth and found myself.


The overcompensating ended, faking things became easier, and I now knew how to keep a good bit of my sanity because I knew the how and why of where my problems originated.

This i find to be a very interesting experience of yours. A trans-gendered person (for which in your case i am convinced that you truly are and have been even before you yourself knew for sure unlike these "trend-genders") tried to emulate a man based on a stereotypical misconception that men behave like pigs towards woman and on the misconception that this is socially accepted found out the hard way that this is in fact absolutely not socially accepted.

All the while while SJW's today constantly attempt to perpetuate the idea that we live in a "rape culture" and that men are "pigs" here in the west. The sort of ideas you based your stereotype on. These same SJW's that are trying to inject these ideas into the minds of the young. (of which you yourself became a victim of as i see it)

I find that sincerely interesting to say the least. How would you say that this experience changed your view on this or men in general? (if you think it did at all ofc.) You seem very rational and balanced. Would you think this experience had a significant impact on this for you and your ideas and perception on the matter?

a reply to: Freija

How convenient for you to talk about "housing" or "employment" when one of the main impositions made on the rest of the population is on bathrooms. Now any man, whether transgendered or not can go into women's restrooms. Several have been caught using "these laws" to take advantage" and who knows how many the "maintream media" is hiding to look pc.

I could tell you about the personal responses I got from two cousins of mine, females both, or a niece, also female, who couldn't understand how this could be made into a law. But of course, your response would be "they have to accept progress, change their views and accept the times", but you would never accept that there are women who don't feel safe because it is a fact that many men will take advantage of this. Because a very small percentage of the population not only want to be seen as they want, now many women can't be sure who is in the restroom with them and would have to keep looking over their shoulder because of these new "progressive laws". Once again, I noticed how you ignored and even dismissed that many women have been raped, a much higher percentage than transgendered people, yet to you their fears and views don't matter, only yours does.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Freija

How convenient for you to talk about "housing" or "employment" when one of the main impositions made on the rest of the population is on bathrooms. Now any man, whether transgendered or not can go into women's restrooms. Several have been caught using "these laws" to take advantage" and who knows how many the "maintream media" is hiding to look pc.

Damn, man, get your head out of the toilet and read something other than alt-right conservative media! You may not be aware but transgender people have been provided access to bathrooms that matches who they are as people by law in 16 states and over 250 municipalities with no increase in all these horrible things you've been led to believe.

Sexual Assault and Domestic Violence Organizations Debunk 'Bathroom Predator Myth'

Bathroom 'Predators' Argument Is a Red Herring

Why The 'Bathroom Predator' Myth Is 'Straight-Up Right-Wing B.S.

Debunking Five Myths That Fuel Right-Wing Bathroom Bills

The Lie Behind the Transgender Bathroom Predator Myth

Transgender People and Bathroom Access

A Comprehensive Guide To The Debunked “Bathroom Predator” Myth

Debunking Bathroom Myths

I could tell you about the personal responses I got from two cousins of mine, females both, or a niece, also female, who couldn't understand how this could be made into a law.

Yeah, most people couldn't understand why "colored people" were allowed to use the white bathrooms either.

But of course, your response would be "they have to accept progress, change their views and accept the times"

Yeah, pretty much.

but you would never accept that there are women who don't feel safe because it is a fact that many men will take advantage of this.

Can you show me those "facts"? I wouldn't feel particularly safe with men in my bathroom either. You do realize these laws will force transgender men like these into the woman's bathroom?

Once again, I noticed how you ignored and even dismissed that many women have been raped, a much higher percentage than transgendered people, yet to you their fears and views don't matter, only yours does.

I'm not dismissing women that have been raped. I've had a few close calls and been in a few sketchy situations myself. Look, if I saw someone obviously transgender in the bathroom it might make me uncomfortable or cautious but that doesn't trump their right pee where they are the safest. Predators are going to predator. There are already laws against that.

a reply to: everyone

Ok to better answer this, I will need to go a bit deeper into what happened exactly. I had started taking a drama class, and had been frustrated by how much difficulty I had with women due to my awkwardness from trying to find myself as a man. So I decided to start trying to act like the many men I saw, who were in my mind a bit piggish and jerky and vulgar but yet seemed to all have women, to see what would happen. I'm bi, by the way.

Well to my surprise, it worked, from day one I got an immediate response, there were girls in the class sticking near me cause they liked my sense of humor at the time. Especially this one girl who was constantly choosing me as her partner. So since it seemed to be working I kept going with it. Now I'm not sure exactly when it went to far. I just know one day I came to school and was pulled into the principles office and was told I had been reported for harassment. I ended up going to the class apologizing through tear filled eyes and immediately dropping it.

When I went into the class, I started acting one way, kept getting positive reinforcement to act that way, and as a result probably kept ramping it up without realizing it, and it went from interest to fear, and I somehow never noticed when it changed over.

As for men and women, having experienced some of both I will say this, things are just plain confusing on all sides, both men and women are constantly getting it wrong, and there are pigs, jerks and users on both sides. I've been around men who are complete and total pigs that treat women like toys. I've also been around women who do the same. I've also been around many great noble men, and many sweet loving ladies.

I've known women raped, I've known men falsely accused of rape. I've known men raped and molested by women, I was one sorta, well was a "male" child in middle school at the time. I've known women who've mentally abused good men, used them and destroyed them as people. I've known men that beat women.

So my final verdict is. Both men and women can be and are equally split between good decent people, people who are confused, and completely depraved individuals that get have no qualms with destroying and taking power over the other gender.

Due to culture the forms and methods the individual genders used have different tendencies, but both have their demons, angels and everyone in-between. Men are more likely to attack physically and in a more blunt fashion than women are, women tending towards more subtlety and emotional abuse. A lot of that may be due to cultural expectations. For example while trying to be a man I had serious anger problems. Not because I was angry, but because as a man anger is more accepted than tears and crying, so I had taught myself to take my extreme emotions and let them out as anger rather that what I really wanted to do.

The SJW's do a major injustice towards men with that rape culture nonsense. There are many ways to be hurt and be emotionally victimized by the opposite gender, not the least of which is false accusations of rape. Both men and women can and are capable of abusing each other. No one gender is the culprit. Women can be just as piggish as men, and are just as sexually active. There are many men easily taken advantage of and abused by women. There are laws in the books that favor women over men, and laws that favor men over women. The only way healing is going to work between the genders is if they can have a real discussion in which the terrible wrongs committed by "some" on both sides can be discussed in an adult fashion, and both can come to the realization that no single brush can be used to paint either gender.

Addendum: I will note that when I first started acting like a jerk and pig it got massive positive reinforcement. It ended in negative when it went too far, but started positive. So it makes sense for many men to try and find the balance where they aren't taking it too far. My point there being, many women are reinforcing this piggish behavior to a degree. Since I was most certainly being a jerk and a pig when I started getting all that attention. So is it really fair to blame men for acting like pigs, when more often than not those men are likely doing so because it's that very behavior that gets them noticed, and gets them attention in the form of positive affections and attention?

a reply to: Puppylove

That is everything i hoped for as a response to my question, A excellent and well laid out response thank you very much for that.


I can only imagine how confusing and anxious that must have been during those school days but at the same time also very interesting how you managed to find your way and succeed in it. Of course it went all south at one point but still. I think in the end you profit from the experience and made you a very balanced person all round, thats my opinion anyway. To me that is obvious just by reading your post in this forum. Most of that cannot be attributed to just the experience but more so by how you dealt with it and the world around you while that was going on if you ask me and you definitely deserve many kudos for that.

This is where the SJW effect hooks in imo. You could have gone around blaming the world and everything in it, condemning it to hell but you didn't you seem to have reflected on yourself instead. The ones who seek and follow this SJW victim-hood approach simply choose the "easy" way out but certainty not the best for anyone, not themselves and not anyone else. They are damaging themselves from beginning to end and others in the process and in fact almost anyone that comes in their path (Calling it War Path would not be out of place).

I do believe this sort of reaction by people comes somewhat naturally but would not usually be perpetuated on this scale we are seeing today. All the pandering on the MSM is doing all the real damage and they are offering people this easy free pass on it and i'm not surprised in the least that many take it and run with it but it is most damaging if you ask me. If CNN would screen a few potential candidates for interviews about the subject of trans-genders for instance then you, puppylove, would end up at the end of their wish-list i am sure and they would run with the one that cries wolf the hardest and the loudest instead (which would be nothing but a compliment for yourself in such a case ofc.).

In fact if you were given a chance to say what you just did in your last post on the current MSM im quite certain you would end up being the subject of many attacks from a lot of sides from the SJW spectrum.

The only way healing is going to work between the genders is if they can have a real discussion in which the terrible wrongs committed by "some" on both sides can be discussed in an adult fashion, and both can come to the realization that no single brush can be used to paint either gender.

Exactly but that cannot happen as long as people in mass keep throwing themselves to the ground and are going "oh oh cruel world why has thou failed me so hard, can't you see..." while pointing vicious fingers at anyone who does not shed a tear for their performance. It is all so one sided and unjustly so and will never fix or heal anything. It makes me wonder if that is even what they want. I actually dont believe that is what they want. Imo they (SJW/-media) prefer all the victim-hood and screaming and demonizing while taking the whole world down with them.

I will note that when I first started acting like a jerk and pig it got massive positive reinforcement. It ended in negative when it went too far, but started positive. So it makes sense for many men to try and find the balance where they aren't taking it too far. My point there being, many women are reinforcing this piggish behavior to a degree. Since I was most certainly being a jerk and a pig when I started getting all that attention. So is it really fair to blame men for acting like pigs, when more often than not those men are likely doing so because it's that very behavior that gets them noticed, and gets them attention in the form of positive affections and attention?

I can only agree on that. It is normal social human behavior. Men find out what woman like and woman find out what men like and act upon it which of course has a learning curve earlier on in life and mistakes will be made by both male and females. It really truly is as simple as that. But what the SJW mindset seems to have cultivated among themselves is the notion that we dont really like what we like or prefer because they are of the opinion that we should not like or prefer it. Girls (according to them) do not really like strong willed men or physically strong men and men Should not prefer a woman who likes to feel protected by their man, things like that that do in fact come quite natural to most people in the world. Those are of course not static roles between men and woman but are by nature simply the most common. Which is why you learned that females started to respond better to you when you started applying such a role for yourself towards them.

That is why your experience and the way you dealt with it interested me so much and thank you very much for putting it out here like this.

P.S there was only one thing i did not agree completely with and that was that woman are physically less aggressive. At least within relationships with their partners they are certainly not and with all the SJW mindsets of today with third wave feminists handing out free passes i have only seen more and more physical aggression from them but this would end up in a entirely new discussion all by itself so i wont go much further on that here.


(For the record for anyone reading i PM'ed puppylove specifically with the request to respond to my question and i myself was a bit late to check the PMs's in my inbox so i respond a bit late to it)

Aww, how precious, they're passing laws to protect their "feelings." lol, a law to expand their "safe space." So pathetic. Overly-sensitive, and obviously WEAK that they need a "safe space" in the first place. Their life is ruined if someone calls them "madam" or "sir?" Give me an f'ing break...

a reply to: Freija

Humm... Is that what i wrote? Did you actually read what I wrote, or did you just disregard my comments and decided to make up something i didn't write... If a trans woman looks like a man and enters a man's restroom, no one is going to ask for that person to prove their sex. If a trans person believes enough to change his/her figure and face to look as the other sex it's obvious that person believes it. But how many times have all sorts of perverts used such laws, and even before these laws were implemented, under Obama to take advantage of women and children?

I am really not going to repost again the evidence i posted in another thread in which you also claimed "there are no transexuals, or regular people taking advantage of this". You know full well there are. I never wrote, or said that all trans people would attack women, or children, but it does happens. Just like there are perverted men, whom I would call beasts, who are not even transexuals and just take advantage of laws such as these to get access to women's and children when they are vulnerable the most.

It's funny how out of control these topics get. I'm a person that believes in simplifying and here it is.

1. Do individuals get to decide what is acceptable to them, or is acceptable dictated to them regardless of their beliefs?

2. If acceptable is dictated, should it be based upon the majority or the minority?

In my opinion, which obviously supports my views...I decide what is acceptable to me. If that doesn't include certain people based upon their actions...that is my choice for my life. No one has the right to force me to accept anyone so long as I follow the law. And finally...and this is just my opinion...if I own a home, a building or a business...I should have the right to decide who I allow in, who I hire and who I don't. No one should be dictated to about whom they choose to associate, live with or do business with in a private (eg. owned by an individual) business or life situation. If you enter into a public situation (apartment for example), it is the business owner's choice, not the renter.

I have no problem with an all trans (for example) apartment complex. No one should have a problem with a non-trans apartment complex.

And finally...I have no problem with anyone's gender or sexual orientation. I would never not hire or associate with someone who was gay, trans, etc. I pretty much like everyone until they turn out to be an ass. But when the topic comes up...I'll provide my view of freedom which never includes dictating acceptance. I reserve the right to choose my friends and associates.