'Space federation'

Originally posted by Spiderj
I hope the other poster will correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe anything I said about you Earthsister could be construed as offensive or malicious. It's not like I didn't intend for you to read my posts and in my past dealings with you I have been as tolerant and kind as possible.

But you have just contradicted yourself. YOu have just stated that this is fact for you, so it is your belief that you have been contacted, it is your belief that you have been chosen. But you do present this as fact, in your first response to wyatt you state that yes there is a federation and you know this because you personally contacted and have been taught about the alien races visiting earth. Youeven end the first paragraph with the words "yes really". You are pushing your personal belief system as fact, not opinion.

As for questioning your mental stability that is my right and i believe anyone who really wants to find the truth will think this as well, should we just take your word? No one on this board knows anyone else. If a stranger approached me on the street and told me the story you tell here, would anyone other than me think he or she may be just a little delusional?

It would be different if my father or mother or someone I've known for years told me this, but again I believe I would first rule out any possiblity of mental disorder first before taking them at their word.

This is not done out of malice or jealousy, it is done because it is a fundamental point to base your testimony on.

As for this not being the place to quesiton your stabliity, this is actually the best place to do it. A casual atmosphere of people looking for the truth.

If I stated that I had personal abduction experiences and that the aliens where talking with me and telling me wonderous things I would certainly think people would question my mental stability, and it would be their right to do so.

IMO of course and as usual.

SPiderj

This guy aint got a clue, doesnt understand that other peoples belief might be true even though it contradicts his. This guy is a good example of why so many conficts are made through differences in belief.

"The fact is" was also said by you, spider J, who said earlier "the truth is none of us know the truth." so why do you feel the need to say "the fact is, earth sister is wrong." because that is what you said.

I dont post here often, but I do post when I see another poster being dam right ignorant to others beliefs, I for one am an open minded person, so I am not going to judge whether something I read is truth or not, because no one can provide proof these days. Computer manipulation destroys anyones need for proof, because even with REAL proof, you will not know.

We all have our own experiences, so if you can only take your own experiences seriously, why the heck do you even bother reading other peoples? The only fact that we can be sure of is that most people on these forums dont give a flying .. what other say, because if you dont believe it, it makes the other person delusional. That is an insult, no matter how you put it.

Sorry for the rant, but its what ive noticed from replies to my own posts and others.

In the end, i believe earth sister, because she has not been in any way melicous about putting her beliefs or opinions across, and this is how I know when someone is trustworthy.

And no, I do not give a dam if anyone dissagree's.
:-)
God Bless you all, may he open your eyes

This guy aint got a clue, doesnt understand that other peoples belief might be true even though it contradicts his. This guy is a good example of why so many conficts are made through differences in belief.

This guy has a better clue than you might want to admit. This guy has been in this field for a long time and this guy doesn't take anything at face value.

Now woodsyboy this guy thinks if you had read all his posts regarding this topic (which I believe I referenced earlier in this thread) then you would see my first contacts with earthsister I was actually quite nice (over all) but grew steadily skeptical as I read.

Did you read my posts?

This guy is actually not an example of why so many conflicts are made through diffrences in belief, this guy has never had any of his questions answered to his satisfaction and until they are this guy will continue to ask those questions.

Aliens are not a religion and should not be approached as a religion, faith is a wonderful thing but it shouldn't be everything.

I am fully capable of understanding people have different views and am actually a very open minded person, but I do not accept someones claims of the extraordinary on faith and honestly what real good does that do.

Should extra-terrestrials be approached as a belief system or a science? I believe science if you believe religion and a faith based alien federation works for you that's great but don't expect me to sit idly by without questioning it.

Now as I stated before I've been nice but if you really want to get into this I will. As for attacks it really seems I'm the one being attacked here.

Now woodsyboy this guy thinks you shouldn't attack him and make such accuasations about him considering you don't know him, but this guy understands that this is what this board is about and this guy thinks you should be able to post your opinion.

This guy also happens to think that people who make wild claims should be open to other challenging their beliefs and if they can't hold up to one anonymous mans scrutiny without the zealots coming to the front lines, then this guy thinks there may be something wrong with this whole galactic federation claim in the first place.

This is just this guys opinion of course and this guy is getting pretty tired of typing this guy so I'll switch back to first person.

Oh and by the way my god blesses me every day and opened my eyes a long time ago maybe my god could help you?

Oh and by the way I used "the fact is" refernencing on of es's claims which I used to back up my argument, so the fact is you should pay better attention.

Spiderj


[edit on 11/14/2005 by Spiderj]

Thanks for sticking up for me and others, woodsyboy.

What you quoted was from a long time ago and SPiderj has since stopped pestering me with repetitions of disbelief in my personal character and integrity.

It's all right with me when people don't believe me. Few do because few can yet, and I don't hold that against them. Belief doesn't even matter compared to the absolutely imperative freedom for people to share their experience and others to hear it.

On this subject, sharing personal knowledge and experience is the way of public education against professional disinformation, and we are all in this together. We should never just "believe" something before we have any personal knowledge of its truth ourselves, but we need to keep learning by listening and thinking for ourselves so we can have our own idea of what is right when we see it ourselves. And eventually we all will see.

The skeptics hold us all anchored in reality, and without them we would have no human reference to judge "alien" information by. There certainly are productive and unproductive ways to be skeptical, though.

What you quoted was from a long time ago and SPiderj has since stopped pestering me with repetitions of disbelief in my personal character and integrity.

Yes it was but what you call pestering I call asking simple questions that were never answered.

The skeptics hold us all anchored in reality, and without them we would have no human reference to judge "alien" information by. There certainly are productive and unproductive ways to be skeptical, though.

That's a skeptics job to hold us in reality while we explore the extraordinary. I find it hard to believe that last crack was directed toward me however as I am very productive in my skepticism.

I would like to state that I have only ever been skeptical of claims that can not be backed up with facts. If that makes me a bad person I'm all right with that, but I really don't think it should.

And what exactly will happen to the non-believers when the aliens finally have that big coming out party in Japan? Will we be punished? Will we be shut out from the huge intergalactic love fest?

I find it hard to believe that such an advanced civilization would hold doubt against those of us who do not believe in earthsisters claims.

As i've stated before she has the right to post what she wants and I have the right to question those claims.

If I ever post a message claiming i have had contact with extra-terrestrials I would hope people would be coming out of the closet to ask me questions, I would also hope that if I could not produce any other proof than my word that they would doubt me and seek the truth for themselves.

Spiderj

So to sum up:

ES - Makes some claims
Spiderj - Asks for proof
ES - Says that can't be provided for various reason
Everyone - Moans

So whinging about this isn't really getting anywhere and it makes for boring reading Although I've talked to ES a fair bit I'm still on the skeptical side, but I do find her very easy to talk to and you're just proding her with an electronic stick Spiderj hehe.

I think we know by now that there's going to be no proof so it's up to everyone in this thread to decide whether they want to gather more information or just leave it at that, I'm tired of the bickering though!

Myself I find the more interesting question in cases like this is to consider why someone would make this up (and I once asked ES this) - I can't think of any real reason but then maybe it's something outside my comprehension.

you're just proding her with an electronic stick Spiderj hehe.

I would again like to point out that I was very happy just sitting here reading the thread until someone made a comment about me, I defended myself and of course the march of the zealots ensued.

As for taking people at their word, that's fine and I am sure that ES has everyone's best interest at heart and of course I am not comparing her to this person (cuz let's face it I don't know enough about her and would like to keep the flaming to a minimum), but here's a group of people who took someone at his word:

www.cnn.com...

Now of course this is an extreme example but don't you think we owe it to ourselves to be skeptical of amazing claims?

SPiderj

Allow me to quote myself:

I'm still on the skeptical side

So my question to you Spiderj is, why would someone make this up? (Not that I don't believe there are lots of reasons, I'd just like to hear your opinion).

I'm sure ES won't mind if we discuss this, since she's fine with people not believing her.

[edit on 14-11-2005 by Nova]

That's a darn good question there Nova, unfortunately I don't know the specific answer. I do not know earth sister except for what i've read here and on her website so as far as figuring out her motivation who can say.

But in my experiences and opinion of course the reasons run the gammut.

The following are completely my opinions of course:

1) It's really happening, there are aliens out there centuries possibly millenia more advanced than us and they are coming here and contacting these people and telling them these things and sending them forth.

Now my problem with this theory is that I find it personally hard to believe that such an advanced race of beings would want to be promoted on the basis of faith. I'm not saying to become technologically advanced one must abandon faith, in fact I believe the reverse tends to happen (my own experience of course).

Why in the world would such an advanced civilization or even better a group of advanced civilizations a) choose ambassadors with no power to really spread that word into the mainstream and b) why after contacting these ambassadors they would give them absolutely no physical proof of their existance and then (simply put) send this missionaries out to spread the gospel word of the aliens existence.

It just doesn't sound like the actions of a truly advanced race.

2) Psychological disorder. They still believe it but it's really not happening.

3) Power and control. Now most people when they think of the concept of power think of politicians or people who can control others on a massive scale. But having power over someone, having people believe in you and your aliens and the cause of those aliens can be quite intoxicating. Even a small cult of people need a leader and trust me that leader wants the job.

4) A front for a bigger organization.

5) Money.

6) Vindication. You've always felt like an outsider, that people just don't understand you and all of a sudden you realise why, because you are far more advanced than these people that is why the alien gods have contacted you you truly are special and it is unfortunate that others cannot see the wondrous things you see, so you can look down on them and pity them and feel sorry that they are not basking in the warming glow of the aliens warming glow...this actually falls under 2 as a sub-heading.

7) They are victims of some form of trauma themselves and it manifests in a delusional state, it's their brain trying to figure out what happened to them again kind of under 2

I'm sure there are others I've missed.

The problem is there are tons of reasons for someone to do this and unfortunately I can actually understand most of them (the reasons not the people).

The number of reasons for someone to do this are as plentiful as the number of reasons to believe.

But there is only one reason not to believe and that is a lack of proof. Not a lack of faith.

I'm sure many people on this board have run into some less than truthful people in this field.

As I've stated in the past and I believe this is a hynek phrase: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". Though it may have been sagan.

Hope that answer wasn't too confusing Nova.

Spiderj

[edit on 11/14/2005 by Spiderj]

Well, this thread is amusing at the most, I liked it when it was very first born, now it's just become....something tottally different.

Now, I have this to say.

People need to quit acusing/bashing/flaming/being rude in general for no reason, now I know there has'nt been a dumptruck load of it (recently atleast), but still enough for me to feel the need to say it.


And as Spider said earlier, everyone has the right to say what they want, regardless to how silly it may seem to some, and everyone else also has the right to ask questions, like spider said earlier.


Ok, well I feel refreshed after saying that now.
I'd like to state my stance on this whole matter.

Do I believe theres some kind of federation/galactic council?
I think it may be possible, but right now I realy doubt it, since it is in my opinion that very very few sentient species have interstellar travel capabilities, right now atleast.

As someone mentioned earlier on, if aliens are out there, why are we not hearing there chitter chatter?
Well, EarthSister did make a good point, if the "government", whoever or whatever you consider that to be, does not want us kinowing about it, it would be pretty easy for them to sweep it under the rug, or in this case under the desert floor.
Another thing to do with this, why should a sufficiently advanced enough civilization still be using normal radio or laser/light to communicate?
They very well could have sub-space radio or, in my opinion more likely than the latter, communications technology that work on the principal of quantum entanglement.


Ok, well I feel that I'm taking up alot of time hear, so I shall end this post with this last thing...


Be nice you jing kwan deh's.

[edit on 11/14/2005 by iori_komei]

Interesting points Spiderj - here's my take...


1) It's really happening - obviously you have to consider this possibility but when I think about this I think of my opinion on the subject as a whole. I think anyone who looks in detail at all the available information will come to the opinion that something is going on. The problem I have is when the different stories contradict each other - what do you do when two people swear blindly they are both telling the truth?

2) Psychological disorder - a possibility

3) Power and control - An interesting one, but what power do they have? None really. The power to influence my beliefs? Maybe, and I can see where this would have it's attractions for some people in real life - but over an anonymous message board?

4) A front for a bigger organization - yes, worrying.

5) Money - indeed, and isn't it annoying when you find a site you really think could be some useful information then you see the big red button that says 'buy here' at the bottom of the page. It certainly takes away from credibility but then people have to make a living I guess. Case in point everyone's favourite David Icke.

6) Vindication - like you said, same as 2.

7) They are victims of some form of trauma themselves - I suppose, and a lot of researches try to pass if off as stuff like this, which in most circumstances comes of as ridiculous when 70 odd people have seen something, but in cases of individuals making claims with no evidence then I suppose it's something you have to consider.

It's definitely an interesting topic to think about and although there's nothing you can do about it in message board situations it's something to bear in mind when reading stuff like this. Also there could be a mixture of two or more, so it's not always true or false.

Anyway......

They are victims of some form of trauma themselves - I suppose, and a lot of researches try to pass if off as stuff like this, which in most circumstances comes of as ridiculous when 70 odd people have seen something,

I don't disagree, but when I speak of trauma in regards to this situation I don't specifically mean the old "Satanic Cult" trauma, but severe child abuse of any kind can cause delusional episodes used to reinforce self esteem and worth.

I don't think people who claim UFO sightings are damaged, I don't flat out claim that anyone on this board is psychologically damaged but I'm certainly open to the possibility And in some cases, I'm certainly leaning that way.

Power and control - An interesting one, but what power do they have? None really. The power to influence my beliefs? Maybe, and I can see where this would have it's attractions for some people in real life - but over an anonymous message board?

The power of conversion is very seductive. And again I'm not talking specifically about this message board but in general. Though if you read the threads you'll see it's actually a very good place to spout personal propaganda, people will either agree with you or not, perhaps a personal contact is made, a new follower to the fold. Not saying it happens, but I certainly think it's a possibility.

Power is all about the ego of the leader, so it's a pretty confusing place to be.

what do you do when two people swear blindly they are both telling the truth?

It's not what we do, it's what they do. They attack eachother, two believers now turned skeptics. Like lions eating their young. My space brothers are the true space brothers, you're space brothers are the false space brothers. Or flat out calling each other liars and hoaxers.

Best thing to do is sit back pop some popcorn and watch the alien gods battle it out. A Jihad of words as they go about debunking eachother.

Also there could be a mixture of two or more, so it's not always true or false.

Absolutely. I didn't mean to impy that it could only be one of them.

ANyhoo, thanks for your comments I hope this helps.

Spiderj

Originally posted by EarthSister

On this subject, sharing personal knowledge and experience is the way of public education against professional disinformation, and we are all in this together.

Sometimes what we think is "personal knowledge" can be just another lie, just another assumption that we just to believe to be true. If we're not extremely careful, we may inadvertently spread disinformation, with no intention of doing so, simply because we chose to hold on to an assumption and pass it along as "truth".

We should never just "believe" something before we have any personal knowledge of its truth ourselves, but we need to keep learning by listening and thinking for ourselves so we can have our own idea of what is right when we see it ourselves. And eventually we all will see.

I agree, so why do you believe what the aliens tell you without any personal knowledge of its truth? For example, why do you believe that there are 218 races just because the aliens said there are? Why do you believe that their intentions are exactly what they say they are? You seem to be contradicting your statements with your actions.

But to comment on that which you do say, you reveal the selfish and lying nature of those aliens with whom you claim to be in contact by describing their actions towards our planet and other races. What right do they have to "remove" any race whose actions they disagree with? What right do they have to protect us or interfere with our existance in any way by protecting us from races whose actions they disagree with? What happened to free will?

Those who do not respect free will of others have only their own interests at heart. No one protects the chickens and cows that we slaughter daily. No one protects the thousands that die in wars that humanity wages on each other. Death and destruction is as much a part of life as birth and creation. To forcefully disallow "death" and "destruction" is to impose your will on creation, to impose you judgement and desires on other beings just because you prefer that they behave as YOU want them to. Do you think that maybe we should invade a forest and stop all the wolves from eating the bunnies because we think it's "evil"? Maybe we should remove the wolves and leave the forest to the bunnies and call ourselves "protectors" of the bunnies? Wait, maybe we should protect the grass from the bunnies who eat it as well? Or maybe we should protect the soil from the grass that feeds on its nutrients? Maybe we should just decide that nature can no longer run its course, and impose our will on other beings just because we feel like changing how things are run around here?

Because that's exactly what your "friends" so arrogantly do.

I can safely say that most people and animals want to live, it is only natural. But do you know what happens when humans interfere and prevent a predator from hunting its prey? Do you know what happens when we play God and decide who lives and who dies? Besides the fact that we're being selfish and acting in our interests, but we're also disturbing a natural balance by doing so with sometimes devastating consequences.

Again, a race that imposes its will on other races does NOT have anyone else's interests at heart but its own, because anytime you violate someones' free will, it is always an act of controlling someone because you suddenly decide that you have authority over another being - but you do not (unless you like to think so). Authority is a self-serving concept that exists only in self-serving races like humans, who have leaders who make their choices for them, because humans are unable to live in freedom - they fall into chaos of "every man for himself" due to their own selfish natures.

So when you say that the alien "federation" protects us, and "removes" (wonder what goes into that) any race that opposes their will for us (repeat: THEIR will for us), it clearly shows what sort of beings they really are. I'm sure the bunnies would think we're really great if we "took care" of the wolves for them. I'm sure the grass would love us if we "took care" of the bunnies for it. But this in NO WAY makes us "altruistic", even if the bunnies are then deceived into believing that we are.

Which leads me to a conclusion that you are being deceived and used as a willing pawn in a most explicit way (as are many others at this time), because you allow yourself to be used as such as you do not question nor critically analyze the actions and words of your alien "friends". Being nice, patient, and seemingly loving does not at all mean anything except works to deceive those who are deceived by such. You should hang out with some politicians who are really nice and patient one second, but can slaughter millions of people for their own greed and power the next - and do it with a loving smile the whole time. Don't confuse appearances with true intentions and actions.

Also, when you say "eventually we all will see", the word eventually can mean almost an eternity before this happens, not necessarily any time soon.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by lilblam]

Originally posted by Spiderj
Now my problem with this theory is that I find it personally hard to believe that such an advanced race of beings would want to be promoted on the basis of faith.

That's the contradiction. Those who reveal themselves on the basis of faith do so in order to preserve the person's free will - if they just prove to someone they exist, then they don't offer the person the option of ignoring it and disbelieving it, they're forcing a reality on someone who may not want or be ready for it. But those beings do not "want" anything, they have no "agenda" for the other person to do anything, they serve others, not self. But also they do not ask or require faith, they in fact wish that you do NOT believe that they are who they say they are, and figure things out for yourself - they only act as inspiration, nothing more. And as such, they never reveal themselves to anyone who did not specifically and explicitly ask for it, and was ready psychologically and on other levels to be contacted. It is a very delicate matter to preserve free will. And no they do not violate free will of ANY being, unlike the aliens who contact EarthSister who seem to pick and choose who should and should not be controlled or prevented from doing something just because the aliens decide they don't want the person or the race to do it.

One way to often tell which aliens you're talking to is whether they help a person grow and advance by helping the person learn to discern truth on their own, or if they encourage a person to believe them on their word and try to spread a philosophy or doctrine that they claim is "the truth because we said so and we wouldn't lie to you". It is a very critical difference. Do they come to educate us, or do they come to help us educate ourselves and in turn strengthen our own being? Because no one needs a preacher, and if one shows up, you can be certain it is not for your benefit but the preacher's.

I'm not saying to become technologically advanced one must abandon faith, in fact I believe the reverse tends to happen (my own experience of course).

Faith in oneself is all you need, not faith in something external to "save" or "protect" you or to "take care" of you or "be honest" or "tell you the 'right' thing", etc. Those who try to create faith in something external are only here to control and deceive.

3) Power and control. Now most people when they think of the concept of power think of politicians or people who can control others on a massive scale. But having power over someone, having people believe in you and your aliens and the cause of those aliens can be quite intoxicating. Even a small cult of people need a leader and trust me that leader wants the job.

2 words: Prophet Yahweh.

Also, again, it is not difficult to see the true natures and agenda of those aliens who contact EarthSister if only you give it some careful and objective analysis. As I mentioned in my previous post, if humanity decided to suddenly protect all the bunnies from being eaten by wolves, I'm sure the bunnies would think we're the best thing since sliced bread (if they could think this). But yet, what are we really doing and why? What reason is there to not allow bunnies from being eaten left and right? Just because WE feel "bad" for them? Well then we certainly arrive at the root of what we do - selfishness. There is nothing wrong with being eaten, nothing wrong with death, nothing wrong with balance or the natural cycle of existance. Nothing "wrong" unless of course you decide to judge it as "bad" and "wrong" and impose your will and change it to better suit what YOU think is "right" in your own subjective point of view.

Maybe Hitler and the Nazis were a GREAT bunch of guys too, they wanted to establish their own order on the Earth, and obviously anyone who interfered was a threat that had to be "removed" because the Nazis decided they're the authority now. Just like EarthSister's aliens "remove" anyone who interferes with THEIR idea of how the world should be run and who should be allowed to do what because they decided they are suddenly the authority in our galaxy, just because they say so and declare themselves as such.

Yes Hitler also told the German people that certain "countries" were interfering and doing "bad things" and had to be "removed" to protect the German people. Now take that and make it cosmic, and you have the exact same deception, the exact same tactic, only on a larger scale. The sooner people are able to see it and stop being gullible pawns as Earth Sister is, the more chance there is that we'll be able to protect ourselves before it is too late and we're part of the "federation" (read: the official party).

[edit on 17-11-2005 by lilblam]

lilblam

What I know by my own experience is truth to me, and that is not to say I know everything. I trust my alien contacts because I know them firsthand and have enough experience with them to trust them for the people they are. You don’t know me, and should not just trust whatever I say. I strongly recommend to you that you think for yourself. Do not follow me or anybody else. But THINK, and do that for yourself.

What exactly is your question for me? Because it seems to me that you will willy-nilly contradict and doubt anything I say no matter what it is. Though, at the same time, you seem to "assume" that I what I claim of having extensive contact is true with no personal basis of your own, so you then doubt the aliens and their own integrity, and doubt my personal judgment of them.

I share what I know for the simple consideration of others who want to figure this whole thing out. I don't expect automatic belief, but I maintain that all humans need to hear more than just the disinformation available, even if they can't believe it yet. I don't blame them and I don't blame you. If it was not happening to me, I would not believe it either, no matter who said no matter what on any Internet message board.

Just think, will ya?

Thank you for your response lil baum but...

That's the contradiction. Those who reveal themselves on the basis of faith do so in order to preserve the person's free will...And as such, they never reveal themselves to anyone who did not specifically and explicitly ask for it, and was ready psychologically and on other levels to be contacted. It is a very delicate matter to preserve free will.

I believe you are missing my point. I don't think any advance civilization whether they be space brothers, unarians or cassiopaens would approach us in this manner. I don't care if they're humans from the future another dimension or another galaxy I just don't think this is how they would choose to contact us.

As for someone being ready, i don't think you're giving mere mortals enough credit we're highly adaptable.

And no they do not violate free will of ANY being, unlike the aliens who contact EarthSister who seem to pick and choose who should and should not be controlled or prevented from doing something just because the aliens decide they don't want the person or the race to do it.

And no offense again, but I think replacing one group for another isn't really helping the situation, I refer you to my earlier comment to Nova.

It's not what we do, it's what they do. They attack eachother, two believers now turned skeptics. Like lions eating their young. My space brothers are the true space brothers, you're space brothers are the false space brothers. Or flat out calling each other liars and hoaxers.

One way to often tell which aliens you're talking to is whether they help a person grow and advance by helping the person learn to discern truth on their own, or if they encourage a person to believe them on their word and try to spread a philosophy or doctrine that they claim is "the truth because we said so and we wouldn't lie to you". It is a very critical difference. Do they come to educate us, or do they come to help us educate ourselves and in turn strengthen our own being? Because no one needs a preacher, and if one shows up, you can be certain it is not for your benefit but the preacher's.

Again I appreciate the input but you're missing my point entirely. I am not really worried about which aliens I am speaking to, I know what I expect from an advance civilization.

Also, again, it is not difficult to see the true natures and agenda of those aliens who contact EarthSister if only you give it some careful and objective analysis.

Yet again, I appreciate the amount of time and passion and energy you've put into your post but your missing my point. Simply put I do not believe earthsister is in contact with any aliens. I don't believe in a galactic federation or space brothers or the borg or the cassiopaeans, or any type of faith based alien agenda.

Whatever works for you that's fine, and again as I've said, while I don't believe in earthsisters aliens doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to post her stuff.

As for who has the more powerful invisible alien gods, we'll have to wait and see.

I thank you for your input lilbalm and wish you well funky time traveling space farer, but I'm just not in the market for anything as dangerous as a new religion.

Peace to you all, may the force be with you and stuff.

Also, I did want to state that when I edited some of your post in my quoting it was strictly to save space and not take you out of context. Just and FYI

Spiderj

Originally posted by Spiderj

I believe you are missing my point. I don't think any advance civilization whether they be space brothers, unarians or cassiopaens would approach us in this manner. I don't care if they're humans from the future another dimension or another galaxy I just don't think this is how they would choose to contact us.

How do you think they would approach us? And why do you think so?

As for someone being ready, i don't think you're giving mere mortals enough credit we're highly adaptable.

It's not a matter of subjective judgement about who is or is not ready. It is an objective thing, like being ready to do something because you have the capability to do it since you have achieved the "prerequisites" that allow you to do it, and without which, you could not do it. It's just natural progression, like learning calculus because you know algebra, or going to a higher grade because you learned the things in the lower one. You don't just say "teach me calculus" if you have no capability to grasp it, since you're missing the prerequisites that are required to undstand it. You also don't just go to 10th grade unless you know the prerequisites that allow you to go there and function. It's similar to those a bit clumsy analogies.

Again I appreciate the input but you're missing my point entirely. I am not really worried about which aliens I am speaking to, I know what I expect from an advance civilization.

Perhaps that's the problem - you have a preconceived idea of how an alien civilization would conduct itself, and you expect aliens to conform to that preconceived notion whether it is true or not. The question is, what is the basis of that notion, is it reflective of objective reality of how things really would work, or is it flat out wrong and only acts as a deterrent to prevent you from understanding how an alien civilization really WOULD conduct itself and why? The devil is in the details of course, it all depends on what your idea is and why. Care to share?

I don't believe in a galactic federation or space brothers or the borg or the cassiopaeans, or any type of faith based alien agenda.

Could you explain what you mean by "faith based" alien agenda? I suspect this is the "sticking point". Also, if you have a preconceived notion of how an advanced race would behave, and if that notion turned out to be wrong, then you can imagine that you may very well be facing a very real phenomenon and ruling it out as "not real" because it does not comform to those notions. You seem to be interested in reality, but I think you're also making some assumptions that may deter you from understanding certain things. Anyways, that's just my opinion (which could of course be wrong), and I think the central point of that may be what you say about "faith based" alien agenda and the idea that aliens would "prove" their existance, etc. I'd really like to discuss those ideas with you and see your take on them.

I thank you for your input lilbalm and wish you well funky time traveling space farer, but I'm just not in the market for anything as dangerous as a new religion.

Me neither

[edit on 18-11-2005 by lilblam]

Originally posted by EarthSister
What I know by my own experience is truth to me, and that is not to say I know everything. I trust my alien contacts because I know them firsthand and have enough experience with them to trust them for the people they are.

What kind of people are they?

Just think, will ya?

I try! Sometimes it doesn't work so well, sometimes it does. You say think for yourself, and I hope you heed your own advice as well! Do you think it is impossible that you're being deceived?

[edit on 18-11-2005 by lilblam]

In this area you will find information about the activities of the the Milky Way Galaxy’s Galactic Federation (GF),their members, starseeds, and walk-ins along with a little history.

The Galactic Federation of Worlds

The Galactic Federation of Worlds (GF) is a large federation of civilizations from many different planets, galaxies and universes working together for the harmonious existence of all life. There is a galactic federation in each of the inhabited galaxies of our universe. These federations are part of the universal management structure much like field offices are part of the management structure for a large corporation.

The Galactic Federation for the Milkway Galaxy is called the Galactic Federation of Worlds, but some of the races represented in our GF may call it by other names, hence the difference in the names given by the Zetas, Andromedans, etc.

Each race, civilization, and planet has a council within the GF to represent them. These councils vary in size depending on population as well as the amount responsibilities they carry within the management structure of the GF. There are literally thousands of these councils since there that many races represented. The GF is much larger than we may imagine.

The Great Halls of the GF
The GF has one major overseeing council which has representatives from each member council. This council meets in the Great Hall. But each council has its own Great Hall. Perhaps this is why there is so much confusion around this Great Hall business. Many channelers attend meetings in the Great Hall and think there is only one, when in fact, it could be the Great Hall of one of the member races or civilizations. You see how quickly it gets all complicated.

The Nibiruan Council the largest of these councils, has its own Great Hall but also meets in the GF’s Great Hall more often than not because its duties involve GF management. Nibiru is not a planet with one civilization, instead it is a GF starship with representatives from many races whose role is that of a traveling galactic management team. Their mission is to help negotiate alliances and maintain peace among the different worlds of the GF and assist new and incoming members. Hence their slogan, “Serving the Worlds.”

The GF for our Milky Way galaxy is located in the Sirius star system. Our sun is a stargate to that system, and the GF. That is why the dog star Sirius is so important to Earth and plays a significant role in our history.

G. F. History
The Milky Galaxy Galactic Federation is the oldest GF in this Universe. It was established at the end of the first Great Galactic War that was fought in the Lyra Constellation between the Humans, Reptilians, Felines and Carians. After this war, the survivors decided that they must establish some way to arbitrate disputes so that this kind of destruction (destruction of the Humans’ homeworld Avyon, the First Earth) would not occur again. Thus, the GF was established with the founding members being Lyran and Orion. Their first flagship was Pelegai, one of the few ships intact after the war. This was a very painful time and the wounds of this war would take many dimensions of time to heal.

In the beginning, the GF was very small since so few had survived the war. The Lyran Council and Orion Councils doubled as the administrative arm of their new fledgling federation. In other words, they were the GF. In time new races were created as offshoots of the original four and the GF welcomed them as they reached galactic status, as we are about to do now.

So the Galactic Federation grew and became a very large and powerful federation of worlds devoted to universal peace and prosperity. Now there are millions of members from across our galaxy.

How do you think they would approach us? And why do you think so?

Actually I'm open to many possibilites as to how and why.

We're either ready for open contact or we're not. Covert contact with a select enlightened few seems counter productive.

I believe that when extra-terrestrials want to make contact they will do it openly and in one big gesture. I do not believe it would help their cause by contacting a select few with no real power to shape events and then send them out with no verifiable proof.

By proof I mean anything that can be tested and verified or at the very least demonstrated before your average joe or jans eyes.

And considering all the different types of galactic federations out there and the conflicting views they pose, you would think an alien race with half a brain would see the inherent problem with this method.

It's not a matter of subjective judgement about who is or is not ready. It is an objective thing, like being ready to do something because you have the capability to do it since you have achieved the "prerequisites" that allow you to do it, and without which, you could not do it. It's just natural progression, like learning calculus because you know algebra, or going to a higher grade because you learned the things in the lower one. You don't just say "teach me calculus" if you have no capability to grasp it, since you're missing the prerequisites that are required to undstand it. You also don't just go to 10th grade unless you know the prerequisites that allow you to go there and function. It's similar to those a bit clumsy analogies.

You can put this anyway you want, it still smacks of elitist to me. Either we're ready or not as a whole. This isn't math or english this is myth and fact. It's like finding out the tooth fairy isn't real or santa only in reverse. I don't think it's as big a jolt to the human psyche as you believe it will.

Also this whole some of us are ready some aren't is a way to stand out, be one of the enlightened few I refer you to my earlier post:

6) Vindication. You've always felt like an outsider, that people just don't understand you and all of a sudden you realise why, because you are far more advanced than these people that is why the alien gods have contacted you you truly are special and it is unfortunate that others cannot see the wondrous things you see, so you can look down on them and pity them and feel sorry that they are not basking in the warming glow of the aliens warming glow...this actually falls under 2 as a sub-heading.

Perhaps that's the problem - you have a preconceived idea of how an alien civilization would conduct itself, and you expect aliens to conform to that preconceived notion whether it is true or not. The question is, what is the basis of that notion, is it reflective of objective reality of how things really would work, or is it flat out wrong and only acts as a deterrent to prevent you from understanding how an alien civilization really WOULD conduct itself and why? The devil is in the details of course, it all depends on what your idea is and why. Care to share?

It's not a preconception as much as it is a logical conclusion. I've admitted before that if I'm wrong I'll be the first to buy the space brothers a coke.

I don't think an advanced race would whisper in our ear and send us out to spread the word, it's counterproductive in every sense.

As for how I feel, if you go back and read the beginning of this thread, you'll get a very good idea of my beliefs, also here's some links:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Could you explain what you mean by "faith based" alien agenda? I suspect this is the "sticking point"...I think you're also making some assumptions that may deter you from understanding certain things. Anyways, that's just my opinion (which could of course be wrong), and I think the central point of that may be what you say about "faith based" alien agenda and the idea that aliens would "prove" their existance, etc. I'd really like to discuss those ideas with you and see your take on them.

By faith based I mean just that, aliens who want us to accept them on faith. If you read the threads you'll understand my views.

THough I would be interested in hearing your views in detail however. I take it you are a believer in the cassopaeans...or am i assuming?

And honestly I don't think anyone wants to read my views for the third time in this thread.

I again, would like to simply state that when it's time it's time and they certainly won't do it piecemeal.

For the record I am not in contact with any aliens.

Not to my knowledge anyway.

SPiderj

Originally posted by Spiderj

How do you think they would approach us? And why do you think so?

Actually I'm open to many possibilites as to how and why.
We're either ready for open contact or we're not. Covert contact with a select enlightened few seems counter productive.
I believe that when extra-terrestrials want to make contact they will do it openly and in one big gesture. I do not believe it would help their cause by contacting a select few with no real power to shape events and then send them out with no verifiable proof.

What if we're not all the same, and some people may be ready for this and others not? And what if the point is not to "shape events" or to change anything at all, just to help those individuals who are ready, to learn? Just because we all share the same planet does not mean that our contact has to be a "race to race" one, instead of on an individual basis based on each person's individual "profile".

By proof I mean anything that can be tested and verified or at the very least demonstrated before your average joe or jans eyes.

But what for? Anything like that can be faked, or it can be deceptive in one way or another, and in the end it still won't prove anything. But if there WAS an irrefutable proof, it would effectively eliminate people's free will to NOT be exposed to an alien reality and be forced to deal with it whether they want to or not.

And considering all the different types of galactic federations out there and the conflicting views they pose, you would think an alien race with half a brain would see the inherent problem with this method.

Could you tell me the problem with this method? There is only a "problem" if you make an assumption as to what the intention is to begin with. The intention does not have to be to "educate" humanity or to "spread" some information, or to change anything at all. If you don't make assumptions about what their intentions *should* be, then I see no problem with this method, do you?

You can put this anyway you want, it still smacks of elitist to me.

Only as elitist as teaching calculus only to those who already know algebra or other things that are required to understand it. On the other hand, a lot of these alien contactee phenomona ARE elitist, promote "superiority" and "specialness" of some over others, etc. The devil is in the details.

Either we're ready or not as a whole.

That's your assumption. What if we can only be ready on an individual basis? Again, just cuz we're all human and share the same planet does NOT mean we're all the same and at the same "level" of understanding and having the same goals, and approach to life, etc. This is not a charity event where they pick some "special people" for their own reasons. Sometimes it is, in which case yes it is elitist, but not in all cases.

This isn't math or english this is myth and fact. It's like finding out the tooth fairy isn't real or santa only in reverse. I don't think it's as big a jolt to the human psyche as you believe it will.

You're assuming that the "jolt" does not come from something else that the human psyche does not currently know, or want to know.

Also this whole some of us are ready some aren't is a way to stand out, be one of the enlightened few I refer you to my earlier post

It either is or it isn't. In some cases, it is just that, a way to stand out and feel better than everyone else, more important, special. But in OTHER cases, it may be an objective phenomenon just like being ready to learn something while others are not yet ready to learn it, either because they do not want to, or because they simply have not learned the prerequisites yet. It's like asking a quantum physics professor why he teaches his knowledge of quantum physics to only some people, and not the entire population of the planet. Is it because he's elitist?

It's not a preconception as much as it is a logical conclusion. I've admitted before that if I'm wrong I'll be the first to buy the space brothers a coke.

Could you explain the logic?

I don't think an advanced race would whisper in our ear and send us out to spread the word, it's counterproductive in every sense.

What if the intention is to confuse/deceive in the first place, to create another "religion" based on lies and rumors and "chosen few". This is how the New Age phenomenon was created, it's all based on "love and light" and wishful thinking, on "space brothers" and other nonsense that is promoted and spread around to those who are gullible enough to buy it. Same as religions, only a little more "hands on" since it includes channeling, etc.

By faith based I mean just that, aliens who want us to accept them on faith.

It is counterproductive if you assume that the intention is not to confuse/deceive in the first place. Religions work in teh same way, some "God" came down to some "chosen" person and gave some information, and everyone else is just expected to believe it all on faith. It's a control mechanism. The question is, who's doing the controlling and why.

THough I would be interested in hearing your views in detail however. I take it you are a believer in the cassopaeans...or am i assuming?

Not believer, I use their info as inspiration for research and contemplation. I don't believe anything, I try to see things as they are by figuring them out with rational thought, observation, and connecting the dots if I can. And even then, I am never certain of any conclusions, and am always looking for more data/evidence, and if it contradicts my previous conclusion, I toss it out the window and start over. I'm interested in truth, not in another belief system.

I again, would like to simply state that when it's time it's time and they certainly won't do it piecemeal.

And again, I think this is based on the assumption that it will EVER be "time" in a global sense. Perhaps the planet as a whole is not counted as "a single contact source", as a single entity where you either talk to everyone or no one - but perhaps each individual is evaluated on an individual basis.

Also, I don't think anyone is contacted by those aliens who are truly here to help without explicitly initiating that contact themselves, so it is mutual, everyone's free will is preserved. And WHY this contact is being initiated determines the nature of the contact and who will end up answering "the phone". Those who do not care for free will may very well be contacting people and tell'em it's because they are "special" or "chosen" or "more advanced" than everyone else. And you do not feel weird all your life because you're actually "more advanced" or "special". You are more advanced because you KNOW more, because you sought and found answers and learned through research and thinking and experience, not because you are uncomfortable in social situations so you must be some sort of chosen alien prodigy - that is new age nonsense. That is indeed "elitism" and personal delusion of self-importance.

Intention is very important. In service-to-others contacts there are no "contactees", it is always mutual, and ALWAYS only to help the individual learn and progress, NOT to prove anything to anyone or spread any ideas or change anything. This is a vital point that I'd like to stress. The point is not to say "hey we are here! Only we can't prove it". They do not contact you, and if you contact them, you already know that they are real. However, very often you do not know WHAT or WHO they are, and although that is important, you can never really be sure - it is not as important as what is exchanged. By theri fruits shall you know them they say.

Same as on earth, you can be friends with someone all your life and still not know the person as well as you thought, they can still surprise you or even backstab you, they can change, etc. Now if you consider some non-human beings, this is amplified exponentially - you have absolutely no idea just who the hell you're talking to, what sort of being it is from what sort of reality, whether what it says is at all true, etc. And they cannot prove it to you, anything they do can very easily be just an illusion, a deception, etc.

This is why in service to others contacts it is not attempted to "prove" anything to you or any belief/faith is involved. It is only inspirational, to help YOU do your own research and figure things out for yourself, it is NOT to teach you or preach any information or philosophy. That is a huge point. The aliens are not "trying" to do anything, they have no agenda towards you or your planet - it was YOUR agenda to contact them, they simply responded because they felt you were at a certain level where this contact can be beneficial. And STILL it does not provide any proof of anything, all proof is on YOU, to figure things out through personal effort and thought and research, period.

On the other hand there are contacts that are fundementally different in nature as well, and the lies/confusion can become very elaborate and complex. It's like politics to the 2nd power. But that's what makes life fun (for me at least), the challenge of trying to figure out who is who, what is what, and what is true and what is an illusion. It's a full time job

[edit on 18-11-2005 by lilblam]