Disclosure by DeLonge & Levenda, Sekret Machines: Gods (Volume 1 of Gods, Man & War)

a reply to: Willtell

religion is clearly the problem here, Tom is going down the debunking of religions route, basically relating them to cargo cults.
Religions have been preaching that the occult is satanic and evil and whatever else, but it seems according to what Toms getting at is that it has to do with Consciousness, the occult, and things of the esoteric nature. Ancient Gods and all that.
He also says this, from an article i read yesterday....."This project is aimed at creating a beacon and a vehicle to be able to interact directly with Millennials across the world. Some of this stuff is empowering, and some of this stuff is frankly kind of scary. But you need to understand it, and you're going to need to deal with it when we're gone."
www.rocksound.tv...

"going to need to deal with it when we're gone." then no follow up question like goin where! deal with what!

a reply to: Davg80 Just a word of clarification: we're not really debunking religions (specifically or generally) here. We feel that the Phenomenon allows us to explain the religious impulse in a way that would be acceptable to atheists, skeptics and the like because religion in this sense would be based on Contact as opposed to seeing talking snakes or bearded gods walking in Eden, etc. It would also be acceptable to the religious (in my view, anyway) as it does not do away with the concept of God but merely puts a step between humans and "big G" God. Ultimate questions about Creation, First Cause, etc. are still where they were with normative religions; that doesn't have to change. But the spiritual or religious experience may be traced to initial (and perhaps ongoing) Contact. I feel that mysticism, esotericism, etc. are technologies in that they are tools and are not ideological or dogmatic practices except for whatever cultural trappings they have. Mystics get along with each other quite well; the religious would love to rip each other apart. For decades I have been suggesting a recognition of mysticism, shamanism, esotericism, etc as representing a technology of consciousness, stripped of theological dogma, and accessible to anyone. That approach brings us out of the realm of religious wars, forced conversions, etc. and gives us tools for understanding the Phenomenon on a different level. Anyway, that's the idea!

a reply to: Davg80

A cargo cult is essentially a materialistic religion.

Real religion is about awakening not material goods accumulated by a group of super beings for the lower beings.

Exoteric religion has become a cargo cult for the exception of some of the mystical groups like Zen, Tao, Sufism, mystical Christianity and others who still understand the concept of true religion.


Maybe Tom and Peter are slowly trying to tell us the UFOS are not interested in feeding us. Curing our diseases, placating our desires, or healing our wounds, or desire for secrets and power. In other words serving us. Human beings better start learning how to serve themselves.

By learning how to serve and how to be served.

originally posted by: levenda
a reply to: Davg80 Just a word of clarification: we're not really debunking religions (specifically or generally) here. We feel that the Phenomenon allows us to explain the religious impulse in a way that would be acceptable to atheists, skeptics and the like because religion in this sense would be based on Contact as opposed to seeing talking snakes or bearded gods walking in Eden, etc.

Not really debunking religions at all, it actually sounds as though your putting one together. So, according to the "new" dogma that you propose, "contact" experiences are legitimate, talking snakes and bearded men are not? Phenomenon wise, that could already be a major mystical schism.

originally posted by: levenda
It would also be acceptable to the religious (in my view, anyway) as it does not do away with the concept of God but merely puts a step between humans and "big G" God.

But only when that intermediary between us and God appears in a "contact" like scenario? Those who do not, for instance, have a "cargo cult" scenario in their narratives, which are far more numerous than those that do, how do their religious beliefs assimilate with the new religion you propose?

originally posted by: levenda
Mystics get along with each other quite well; the religious would love to rip each other apart. For decades I have been suggesting a recognition of mysticism, shamanism, esotericism, etc as representing a technology of consciousness, stripped of theological dogma, and accessible to anyone. That approach brings us out of the realm of religious wars, forced conversions, etc. and gives us tools for understanding the Phenomenon on a different level. Anyway, that's the idea!

DeLonge and his team are careful, though, to emphasize that their theories are only that. "People have been spending 70 years trying to prove it's real, and if you're waiting for the government to do it, good luck," says Levanda. "What we're saying is, let's proceed under the assumption that this is real. What does that mean for history, for medicine, for physics, for chemistry, for astronomy? What does it mean for us as humans if we accept that the phenomenon has always been real?"

www.rollingstone.com...

Assuming the phenomenon is real is one thing, experientially many of us here are well assured of "it's" presence in our reality, and are instead wondering why others, particularly those like yourself with power and influence, insist on providing cherry-picked sources that only support a single explanation, when clearly, when the evidence is more inclusively examined utilising a actual interdisciplinary approach, it is clear that your "contact" scenario only applies to a very, very small proportion of what we understand the "phenomenon" to be. Definately sounds like the beginnings of dogma to me and an attempt to profit from those of limited educational resources as all the successful religions are.

He says he is always on these sites and such so if he dont even answer once its all BS

a reply to: Anaana

i for one believe that religions are now holding us back with their ancient teachings, for me it "now" hinders evolution.
You guys are aiming at the millenials, and i get that, you need to get to those that are less conditioned in order to develop a "new" way of thinking. Changing perspectives will be hard when we have been going through a conditioning process for thousands of years telling us that the things you are proposing are evil and taboo. Although i have noticed things as of late that show me this conditioning process that you are proposing has already started, cartoons i used to watch that i now watch again cause i have a young son, have changed to CGI characters, but more importantly, things like aliens and interdimensions are now prevalent in those cartoons, there was never a mention of that sort of stuff in things like "alvin and the chipmunks" "the teenage mutant ninja turtles" "inspector gadget" etc..... so for me what you propose that your a part of is underway in many facets of societies.... if i had some serious evidence that things like astral projection, and the spirit world was real, i personally would put more efforts into understanding it, at the moment it's hard finding the things that may have substance in amongst all the crap thats out there.

originally posted by: Davg80
i for one believe that religions are now holding us back with their ancient teachings, for me it "now" hinders evolution.

I can't dispute that some religions are detrimental to rational discourse and they may attempt to some extent control the dissemination of information and thereby hinder progress, however on the flip side, religion has often been at the forefront of providing "free" education, health and welfare care to the poor and under represented, thereby at least giving those at the bottom of the pile a chance.

I think that religions are filled with good intentions and that sadly the road to hell is paved with those intentions, because those that will exploit, manipulate and corrupt are also attracted to the weak and vulnerable for their own ends and profiteerism. DeLonge has taken his wealth and used it to push himself and his ideas to the forefront, that is his choice, he wants to win hearts and minds, he's using his money to do so. If he wanted to find out the "truth" then his money would not be supporting "researchers" like Levenda and Vallee, and the current marketing campaign. I mean, what does it cost to get the Washington Post to run an interview? Thousands I would have guessed goes into greasing the right palms. You could probably fund a full-time observer at Project Hessdalen for the same amount he paid just to get the Washington Post to play along, if we consider the budget for the entire marketing and development of the books etc, he'd probably have been able to fund a handful of PhDs. DeLonge wants to be famous (again?), either he's not that bright and doesn't realise he is being pandered to, or he is well aware, and willing to go to whatever length necessary to get his face and name out there, riding whatever band-wagon he can to get there.

originally posted by: levenda
a reply to: Davg80 Just a word of clarification: we're not really debunking religions (specifically or generally) here. We feel that the Phenomenon allows us to explain the religious impulse in a way that would be acceptable to atheists, skeptics and the like because religion in this sense would be based on Contact as opposed to seeing talking snakes or bearded gods walking in Eden, etc. It would also be acceptable to the religious (in my view, anyway) as it does not do away with the concept of God but merely puts a step between humans and "big G" God. Ultimate questions about Creation, First Cause, etc. are still where they were with normative religions; that doesn't have to change. But the spiritual or religious experience may be traced to initial (and perhaps ongoing) Contact. I feel that mysticism, esotericism, etc. are technologies in that they are tools and are not ideological or dogmatic practices except for whatever cultural trappings they have. Mystics get along with each other quite well; the religious would love to rip each other apart. For decades I have been suggesting a recognition of mysticism, shamanism, esotericism, etc as representing a technology of consciousness, stripped of theological dogma, and accessible to anyone. That approach brings us out of the realm of religious wars, forced conversions, etc. and gives us tools for understanding the Phenomenon on a different level. Anyway, that's the idea!

Absolutely brilliant!

This is what will advance our culture: Taking the subject of religion from superstition into the realm of true knowledge seeking.

a reply to: SacredLore

Why all the confusion? Great explanation in my opinion. (Click me, I am a link.)

originally posted by: SacredLore
Absolutely brilliant!

This is what will advance our culture: Taking the subject of religion from superstition into the realm of true knowledge seeking.

'Cos that hasn't been tried before.



That is not what Levenda, DeLonge and Vallee are doing either way, quite the contrary. Delonge I presume has fallen into the trap because he has been reading too much Cremo and Coppens, I don't know what Levenda and Vallee's excuses are though. Under the thumb? Greed? Cowardice? Vanity?

I could go on, but since honesty on their part may impact upon the "control system", I guess we'll never know and speculation in that area is just tedious...just look at Greer.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Sorry, didn't catch your post right away :-)

I agree, it lines up pretty well.
So at the end of the day it's just another theory, without any evidence to evaluate it's merit.

Or rather, with no new evidence to support it.

I would much have preferred it to be a presentation of findings and conclusions, supported by evidence. There is a massive body of logs, radar tracks, film footage, pictures and who knows what else, that is alleged to exist.
The evidence for "missing evidence" is just as convincing as the evidence for the phenomenon itself. So why can it not be produced, then?

This is what I do not understand.

BT

The whole Cargo Cult is a fairly week foundation to base an ancient aliens hypothesis on. It is a very broad brush to use when claiming that contact is the basis for religious or mystical experiences.

The cargo cult imitated with bamboo, coconuts, palms leaves etc human made planes, goggles etc and they did a damn fine job of making these objects look as they are. Where are these imitation crafts and their technology from ancient times? You know the Near Easterns were very good artists and sculptors I'm sure they would have done a bang up job on the same artistic replication if you are binding them to the cargo cult hypothesis.

Historically not all societies turn into mystical superstition their encounters with more technologically advanced cultures. Cargo cults are not an automatic result of contact, in fact they are not the norm at all, rather the few examples arose during a time of societal stress. These rituals were designed to acquire goods due to the destabilization of old trade routes and ancestral gifting social structures.

Cargo cults are marked by a number of common characteristics, including a "myth-dream" that is a synthesis of indigenous and foreign elements; the expectation of help from the ancestors; charismatic leaders; and lastly, belief in the appearance of an abundance of goods.[7] The indigenous societies of Melanesia were typically characterized by a "big man" political system in which individuals gained prestige through gift exchanges. The more wealth a man could distribute, the more people in his debt, and the greater his renown. Those who were unable to reciprocate were identified as "rubbish men".

Faced, through colonialism, with foreigners with a seemingly unending supply of goods for exchange, indigenous Melanesians experienced "value dominance". That is, they were dominated by others in terms of their own (not the foreign) value system; exchange with foreigners left them feeling like rubbish men.
Since the modern manufacturing process is unknown to them, members, leaders, and prophets of the cults maintain that the manufactured goods of the non-native culture have been created by spiritual means, such as through their deities and ancestors. These goods are intended for the local indigenous people, but the foreigners have unfairly gained control of these objects through malice or mistake.[9] Thus, a characteristic feature of cargo cults is the belief that spiritual agents will, at some future time, give much valuable cargo and desirable manufactured products to the cult members.

en.wikipedia.org...

So this means the society functioned in a system where prosperity relied on gifts from ancestral realms, they simply copied the "western rituals" in an attempt to gain the cargo.

Where are the ancient examples of 'technology' replications of contact?

The Melanesians created the cargo cult from what they actually saw, so lets turn to an example of what some ancients created from what they actually saw, that funnily enough does back up this premise but not as Levanda is claiming.

Do you know they found buried next to Khufus pyramid the pharaohs solar boat? How did they represent a flying craft....with a boat. not a UFO, not anything other than a plain old human boat. That is the only "transport" craft they had seen or knew. So can you see how the cargo cult actually confirms humans replicate what they saw which was a boat, nothing else. The solar boat is designed to allow the pharaoh to travel the heavens with the Ra. What was this god? a personification deity of the sun. A hawk (horus) with sun disc on his head. Not an alien, a human/hawk/sun. a deification of a very human experience.

Levanda says he doesn't subscribe to Von Danikens and Stichin, but this is really the same grasping concept.

Levanda is saying the cargo cult proves ancient religions emulated 'contact' I think the 19th/early 20th century Melanesians actually disprove that premise all together.

Don't give me cargo cults, they say we have proof from higher ups, please disclose that to scientists and get on with it without this ludicrous agonizing birthing pains through posters, Instagram photos, rolling stone magazine articles and books.

How many more days till we get the big news? I'm really curious what he has to say. He will receive so much backlash if he doesn't bring something new to the table.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Don't give me cargo cults, they say we have proof from higher ups, please disclose that to scientists and get on with it without this ludicrous agonizing birthing pains through posters, Instagram photos, rolling stone magazine articles and books.

Hear, hear!

BT

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Don't give me cargo cults, they say we have proof from higher ups, please disclose that to scientists and get on with it without this ludicrous agonizing birthing pains through posters, Instagram photos, rolling stone magazine articles and books.

The thing is though, as far as I can tell, is that they don't claim to have any "proof", what they claim to have done is to offer a satisfactory explanation and to imply that those "higher ups" are satisfied with this explanation too, and that this, in the form of the "fictional" books, is what they are presenting. In effect, from my perspective, it is an attempt to justify the obfuscational role played by those "higher ups" in attempting to deflect and direct public opinion, including the staging of abductions. It's really, essentially, taking the Disclosure Project and framing it into a neat and most importantly, and what Levenda is very good at, satisfying narrative, there doesn't seem to be anything additional for scientists to be working with.

I don't know whether the point is to force the hand of those who are preventing "disclosure", and if you compare DeLonge's "theories" to Greer's more slap-dash, throw enough # and some is bound to stick, approach, there is a refinement, a more directed focus towards intelligence communities, and that there was a necessity for their actions. In contrast to Greer, DeLonge seems to be moving away from the nefarious all-knowing military-industrial complex engineering galactic war, to place the services as more hapless, headless chickens, scared witless by some glowing orbs, and therefore, in order to defend their country, they countered by dressing up as aliens and playing pretend...or something like that...but my expectation is that disclosure in the US, whenever it happens, if it happens, will begin with "Look, we really #ed up..."

The Real Story

Chapter 1: The Mark of Rome: Deceptive Caucasians as Messengers of Gods

Chapter 2: Roswell 47:Time Traveling Asians

Chapter 3: Temple construction;What is a Bondmason?

Chapter 4: Fallen Stars, Foreign foundries.


Chapter 5: True Messengers, Reflected light vs Absorbed Light


Chapter 6: Squaring the Round: Synthetic geometry and Polarized light.

Chapter 7: False Pride:Taking Man out of Nature

Chapter 8: Big G, as in Government?


I will make this # much more interesting and factual than Con Delong and friends. Send me donation.

a reply to: levenda

people are still waiting for Toms "big announcement" that he declared yet i believe it has already happened, if you read between the lines of water on other bodies in the solar system. The questions arise how long has water been there and does it have the ingredients for life, or intelligent life at that. If so....... where is it?

would you agree that Toms "big Announcement" has been?

Day 63 Tommy boy!

Let's hear about all the alienz!

We wait with bated breath.

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: levenda

people are still waiting for Toms "big announcement" that he declared yet i believe it has already happened, if you read between the lines of water on other bodies in the solar system. The questions arise how long has water been there and does it have the ingredients for life, or intelligent life at that. If so....... where is it?

would you agree that Toms "big Announcement" has been?

Pretty crappy "big annoyncement" if we have to debate on if it's happened.