Disclosure by DeLonge & Levenda, Sekret Machines: Gods (Volume 1 of Gods, Man & War)

a reply to: Willtell

Anybody who knows anything about Peter Levenda, or read the book closely knows he wouldn’t be involved in any cult.

No one was accusing Peter or Tom of such actions. I was comparing the business model with that of a certain cult such as "men of science" and how they may have infiltrated ufology and the American military, if you know what I mean. Keep buying the books and you will learn everything.

That's the whole damned point though isn't it?

Imagine the President wants the truth. Does his team of advisors sit him down and say well "Mr. President you'll have to go through a series of 60 meetings over the next 5 years and eventually, if you've paid enough attention and written enough notes up, then you'll see the answer at the end".

Nope they give a high level overview over the current situation and then drill down as necessary. So it should be "Yes there's aliens, they lived on Mars and came here when it lost it's atmosphere. They've been interfering ever since but you can't tell them apart from us any longer."

They don't start with "Have you heard about the Greeks and their mythology? Yeh they were nasty. But more to come next month."

We never, ever have got a straight answer to who are they, where are they from and what do they want. It's always waffle and ufotainment. For 70 years it's gone on. What's the hold up?

I personally don't believe the men at the DoD know a whole lot more than what NASA has revealed. NASA (and the Soviets) took us into space, showed us Earth from above, went to the moon, Venus, Mars, toured the Solar System, found exo-planets, detected a possible microbe on a Martian rock, and recently detected 'goldilocks zone'' planets around distant stars. In 1947 ,70 years ago, we had flying saucers and didn't know what they were? We still don't.

Disclosure will come from the "real men of science".

a reply to: lostgirl

That's a good point
There would be no denying by anyone that there is more out there than is seen. A quark, an atom, or bacteria were not seen centuries ago, but we are clever little godlings that have discovered things.
There must be data that the advisors have or otherwise they are dealing in folktales. Without testable evidence it is a belief, a theory, and that's ok, great discoveries have been made from theorizing.

I suppose the way I could have said it is, Does the woo woo have basis in science. Is it physical? Are the advisors saying they have evidence of 'beings?'
The substance of a 'being' must have properties governed by laws of physics. The data may not be an actual being but a footprint, something that sits outside regular data, something traceable. Just like we recently may have discovered a new planet in the Kepler system, we could never see it, but we can trace it's footprints by subtle changes in the data. arstechnica.com...

It sounds like they claim to have some form of data and I want to know what that is, not tell us a backstory and skip the data. These beings have been called aliens, demons or ghosts keeping it as folklore instead of disclosing there is unknown matter that interacts with us in this dimension.

Take for example Scientists have recently succeeded in creating a state of matter known as a time crystal, which seems to suspend the laws of thermodynamics indefinitely. This form of matter keeps "moving" indefinitely at a certain frequency, without heating up or creating entropy, (Entropy is the the natural state of disorder that always increases in the universe. Read more: www.livescience.com...)
Previously we thought of this incredible discovery as woo woo, we made exaggerated mythological references of a time crystal, a form of matter that spontaneously breaks "time invariance," the fundamental symmetry in time in stories and fiction.

So by saying less woo, I mean what is the data. What are the properties, how are they governed. Don't tell us it is a inter dimensional being, tell us the properties, let scientists not paid by the military research it. It may turn out to be a 'demon' or a 'alien' or a 'ghost', but we can't do any accurate research with just a backstory, but we can with the data. Without data, it's a matter of "take our word for it".

Cheers lostgirl, good to see you

a reply to: mirageman
Yes, this is like your kid asking who ate the last of his Halloween candy and you say "Well, son, let's start with these two people named Adam and Eve..."

a reply to: mirageman

I totally understand your frustration and others, its justified.


But understand that many people have made dogmatic statements one-way or the other, where filled with that from all kinds of schools of thought. That’s no solution it’s just like religion you believe or you don’t. In fact, this is a little better, more tangible than religion in many regards.

If they would have made more direct statements then the criticism would have been more direct towards their ideas...


My take is that there is not any way to thoroughly understand this phenomenon YET...(This maybe is a bridge between faith and materialism in some subtle form)



Levenda, is clear in the book, unless I read it wrong( and might have to read it more closely later) that the alien phenomenon is real, he suggests that, in some form, its dependent on what we have come to understand as God in our mythologies and spiritual lore… This is similar to the AA theory yet different in many respects

Levenda and TDL I suspect may have a rough time because metaphysics OR MYTHOLOGICAL SPIRITUAL LORE and UFOLOGY aren’t really compatible to a lot of UFO buffs…


The AA people are his readers likely but a thread like this, filled with highly intelligent people who are nonetheless tired of being deceived, is a sign that the metaphysical explanation won’t wash to the average UFO buff.

It may be too esoteric for a group inclined to materiality


There has to be a bridge built


Maybe that’s what there trying to do

a reply to: Willtell

Levenda, is clear in the book, unless I read it wrong( and might have to read it more closely later) that the alien phenomenon is real, he suggests that, in some form, its dependent on what we have come to understand as God in our mythologies and spiritual lore… This is similar to the AA theory yet different in many respects

He may be clear. That's opinion though. There is nothing tangible yet. So what makes anyone think the answer is at the end of three, four, a dozen books?

I actually believe mainstream science will confirm the first signs of alien life and it will on the evening news. So it is a complete waste of time and money reading this series of books. But everyone is free to believe the truth will come from Tom De Longe if they wish and spend their cash as they wish.

Does anyone actually believe Tom will reveal the answers?

Lets get down to the nitty gritty here of the issue and out of the politics of TLD and his books


Are these UFO’S what Levenda calls The Phenomenon related to some organized universal cosmic hierarchy?

I don’t mean that space brothers stuff usually called something like The Intergalactic Space Agency of Zion….something like that.

I personally think all those groups are, with all due respect--bogus.

Along those lines, I always thought they might have something to do with the nuclear weapons, least of all, and obviously something like this would likely have multiple levels of issues they are dealing with.

Levenda suggests that, for example, the Dalai lama's many mass initiations have drawn or sekreted UFOS to this dimension…

Then there is Apocalyptic possibilities or some view them as angelic and some view them as demonic…

As of now I view the nuclear weapons possibility as favorable and the fact that they are somehow related to the architecture of the universe in some form…

This relates to the Fall of Man where the inner faculties or architecture of the human was gravely affected along with the solar system.

At first in the microcosm and then over time a Zachariah Sitchin type macrocosmic event precipitated the creation of the famous Demiurge.

The Circle was corrupted in the macrocosm and the microcosm

That circle may be under its repair now, which entails the returning of deep cosmic entities( circles--planets) back to our solar system….

Simply put, is God or some cosmic force repairing the macrocosm

a reply to: mirageman

I have to respond that I think Mickey mouse will reveal the truth first over the evening news

a reply to: mirageman

They don't start with "Have you heard about the Greeks and their mythology? Yeh they were nasty. But more to come next month."

Crazy talk MM, you do know you are on ATS right? Good stuff.

Does anyone actually believe Tom will reveal the answers?

I hate to say something has dipped into negative probability...hopefully we're wrong. Im guessing from Lavenda's last post that this is mostly theory. Maybe they are revealing to us current theory the DoD has on the subject. But certainly no hard evidence.

Btw, its your best Avatar to date, almost good as Gortex's Slash he had a while back, its a keeper imo. Gortex should have kept the Slash too = (

a reply to: levenda

In fact, if we analyze the scriptural texts from many different and diverse cultures from around the world, we discover that there is a recurrent theme involving the very idea of contact. We suggest that it is necessary to look for common denominators, and then to see how each culture had a slightly different reaction to this contact and to mine those differences for more data.

Do you just find your approach more reasonable than Ancient Aliens or have the insiders Tom has spoken with filled you in? In other words, do you consider it more theory or fact?

All of which is leading down that road... What proof has Tom's insiders offered(pictures, personal experience) and to what extent do they claim we have had contact? Have we recovered crashed saucers? Do we work with them at all or merely observe?

Whats the most interesting information, if anything, have you learned from the insiders that isnt already known?

Interesting bit on page 147 regarding a "technology" otherwise cloaked in religious garb, that "opens the gates" between this world and whatever that "other world" is...wherein these religions developed or attempted to re-create (like a cargo cult would) the factors that led to the astonishing meeting of "the others." In other words, the religions of the past were attempting to both describe and recreate/reinitiate "contact" via ritual.

The "rituals" of ascension (or descent) and "celestial flight" are what are specifically being discussed here, in multiple religious traditions.

AND a single sentence that leapt out at me on pg. 148:

As we will see in Book Two, governments and armies around the world understood this [that the practice behind the rituals was 'solid'] and put some of it to work in the twentieth century, even trying to improve upon these practices and eliminate the human factor as much as possible (which turned out to be counter-productive, as could have been predicted).

Hmmm... This book is laying the groundwork for the theory, and laying out the historical evidence and understanding of the world-wide nature of these cargo-cult "rituals" regarding "ascension" or celestial flight or "descent" or what have you that are in actuality a sort of technology for "contact," with the "others."

In other words, this isn't just a vestigial "ritual" based on contact, it is an active set of rules of engagement for contact. And in the 20th century, governments, including the US I imagine, used it as a technology and stripped it of its religious underpinnings in order to achieve contact, for the purpose of, one can assume, wartime advantage / technological advantage.

(I assume this given the titles of the books, 1. Gods, 2. Man, and 3. War)

I have to say I'm enjoying the book so far. I'm not as far in as I'd like because of time constraints, but the analogy of shamans or magicians summoning rituals being compared to "UFOs" and abductees is a new way of looking at the phenomena. I just wish I wasn't so tired at night when I try to read!

a reply to: AboveBoard

Interesting
Can you quote from page 147 the paragraph you are referring to?
I don't have the book with me.
Thanks if you can!

a reply to: AboveBoard

Pretty fascinating. Channelling of some sort is probably an aspect then after all. Contact through ritual. More interesting than I thought. I'm rereading Levenda's Political Witchcraft Trilogy now and find some interesting overlap. So...Would some of this contact be in what we generally call the astral?

Thank you for honing in on the morsels!

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: AboveBoard

Interesting

Can you quote from page 147 the paragraph you are referring to?
I don't have the book with me.
Thanks if you can!

Ok. Here it is:

The technology we are calling "Works of the Chariot" opens a door between This World and the Other World, in other words, the realm of the Phenomenon. It enables a human being to instigate contact consciously and deliberately, rather than having it happen only accidentally if at all. Yes, we know it sounds very New Age-y and mystical, but that is not our intention. Rather such a perverse reaction is a side effect of so much poor contextualization of the experience itself. We need to remove this process from its cultural and religious ornamentation in order to see it for what it really is.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Cool, thanks AB, do they say what this technology is and how they got it?
Are they saying that ritual can do a version of this "portal" opening?

I think I went past page 147, I cant remember this page my eyes maybe were glazing over and I started skimming so serves me right for missing it!

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: AboveBoard

Pretty fascinating.

Channelling of some sort is probably an aspect then after all. Contact through ritual. More interesting than I thought. I'm rereading Levenda's Political Witchcraft Trilogy now and find some interesting overlap. So...Would some of this contact be in what we generally call the astral?

Thank you for honing in on the morsels!

Thank you!

I believe it is, according to Lavenda, related to the astral plane concept but I do not yet know the extent or specific mechanics of that relationship.

On pg 40 the astral plane is discussed thusly:

The term astral plane is quite suggestive, and appropriate in some ways to this project if we can extricate it from some of its more New Age associations. The word "astral" means, of course, "starry."

The astral plane is the plane of the Stars. The concept is ancient, and goes back at least as far as Plato...(edit). It goes back to the idea that the Earth was the center of the universe and that around it were the orbits of the planets and the stars.

One ascended to the heavens through the plane of the stars. (Edit) This is the "journey" of the shaman, codified and made systematic by the Greeks..."

This is the only relevant section in the book. The astral plane is not specifically mentioned in the rest of the book.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: AboveBoard

Cool, thanks AB, do they say what this technology is and how they got it?
Are they saying that ritual can do a version of this "portal" opening?

I think I went past page 147, I cant remember this page my eyes maybe were glazing over and I started skimming so serves me right for missing it!

The book is dense so it's easy to miss stuff!!

I believe it is saying that these rituals, stripped of their religious and superstitious elements, are a technology for opening the "gate" between our world and the world of the Phenomenon. So, yes!

It is ancient "technology" that apparently requires human consciousness to operate. He has not gotten specific as to which ritual or what method, but one can infer there is more than one.


High Magick was mentioned. Greek concepts and mythology were pointed to by the "higher ups" as specifically important, etc. many cultures were mentioned.

I hope that helps!

Ps. Greer uses Hindu "puja " rituals in his contact efforts. TD specifically says Greers philosophy surrounding contact is wrong, according to TD's advisors, but that he himself experienced a contact episode using Greer's techniques. This is not in the book but info I gleaned from an interview a while back.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Interesting bit on page 147 regarding a "technology" otherwise cloaked in religious garb, that "opens the gates" between this world and whatever that "other world" is...wherein these religions developed or attempted to re-create (like a cargo cult would) the factors that led to the astonishing meeting of "the others." In other words, the religions of the past were attempting to both describe and recreate/reinitiate "contact" via ritual.

The "rituals" of ascension (or descent) and "celestial flight" are what are specifically being discussed here, in multiple religious traditions.

AND a single sentence that leapt out at me on pg. 148:

As we will see in Book Two, governments and armies around the world understood this [that the practice behind the rituals was 'solid'] and put some of it to work in the twentieth century, even trying to improve upon these practices and eliminate the human factor as much as possible (which turned out to be counter-productive, as could have been predicted).

Hmmm... This book is laying the groundwork for the theory, and laying out the historical evidence and understanding of the world-wide nature of these cargo-cult "rituals" regarding "ascension" or celestial flight or "descent" or what have you that are in actuality a sort of technology for "contact," with the "others."

In other words, this isn't just a vestigial "ritual" based on contact, it is an active set of rules of engagement for contact. And in the 20th century, governments, including the US I imagine, used it as a technology and stripped it of its religious underpinnings in order to achieve contact, for the purpose of, one can assume, wartime advantage / technological advantage.

(I assume this given the titles of the books, 1. Gods, 2. Man, and 3. War)

Gives a whole new meaning to NIDS and Skinwalker ranch doesn't it? Oh Mr. Vallee....where for art thou?

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Yep. Skinwalker is, along with a ranch in CO and other places I'm sure, an "open gate" that may be naturally occurring or have been opened via repeated ritual (Native American shamans).

That's just my guess though, based on what I've read elsewhere.

Skinwalker points to the somewhat dangerous nature of the Phenomenon, in my opinion.