Is there a dumbing down of music

a reply to: 4003fireglo

Met him on the Thrak tour in Cincinnati. Nice guy. Bruford was great, too. Fripp was nowhere

Lucky you!




Talk, talk but more music please!!!

a reply to: vonclod

Robert Fripp on Mellotron and the beautiful voice of Greg Lake



or Pete Sinfield (co founder of KC)

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: charlyv

Hey Charley thanks for that!

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

"And now for something completely different"
Monty Python
skip to 1:05

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I think it is forgotten by many but BAD music exists during all time eras. We only remember the good stuff. But for how much the OP is waxing poetic about classical music, there is JUST as much crap from the Baroque and Classical periods as there is today.

The primary difference is that there was a time when the bad stuff wasn't praised at the shake of a booty or a fanning of gold coins or a pimped out chariot or with heads on spikes dripping with blood - all for the masses to indulge and cry, "the voice of a god!"

I think what he meant is just as much production scheduled crap was pumped out back than as today. The record companies want music to sell and destroy the genre by pushing contract artists to produce.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Very nice..poor Greg and Keith

I would say there's just a dumbing down of society in some areas in general which leads to a dumbing down in music and movies as a result.

That being said I think you are suffering from a typical golden age delusion just like your parents and grandparents before you.

Sure some things are being dumbed down to appeal to a wider market and multilingual audience but at the same time we're progressing nicely.

Don't worry about it too much. Everyone goes through this as they grow older, just put your headphones in and avoid pop radio stations

For your listening pleasure I give you Seasick Steve

Here is an artist I enjoy

LOL is the OP talking his opinion on what Music is to them or the Literal term? Sounds more like simple hatred for music they don't like.

WoW....I noticed this and someone else finally noticed it.....Like music has been dumbed down and all used up and is terrible right now.There is no new sound or anything that has come out and it is all mixed up and is lousy.I listen to country and they have went for rock sound and rap sound.Like society is in total meltdown mode even with music.You got to be of certain kind of person to notice this stuff.It also is going on with online video games also and people just becoming dumbed down.

These kids today.
Here's some real music. Miss you, Alvin.

Turn it up to 11!

Everyone has different tastes.
I dislike rap, but millions like rap. I dislike Justin Bieber, but millions like Justin Bieber. I dislike art where you splatter paint all over a board, but millions like it.
Calling other peoples taste in art complete garbage is ignorant and fascist.

Anyway, if you are looking for music that tells a story (both instrumentally and or vocally) and always sounds different, you need to check out the progressive metal genre.
In progressive metal, artists tend to combine different music formulas and genres (jazz, electronic, orchestral, pop, reggae, you name it) into one. It's not all metal, and not every single song an artist puts out is metal (depending on the artist of course). It's a very dynamic genre that has a lot to offer.
Also, many artists use effects for their music. It's all part of what music has evolved to these days, but it is still music. Music evolves, just like everything around us (animals, planets, technology) evolves. If you don't like that, then it is understandable and there are many artists that still make music without any electronic effects. But note that people won't hold back on music technology and new instruments just because you prefer people to not use computers and effects for music (specifically to stick with old instruments, because computers are now a universal instrument).

Artists in the progressive metal genre that I recommend:
Periphery
Animals As Leaders
Scale The Summit
Plini
Twelve Foot Ninja
TesseracT
The Algorithm
Thank You Scientist

originally posted by: JobeycoolIt also is going on with online video games also.

(Sorry if I fail to type comprehensive English. It's pretty late and can barely keep my eyes open)

It depends on the market.
On the console market (which is mainstream), people prefer your generic "cinematic-movie video game", like Uncharted or The Last of Us for example. The fact that they are a movie game (where you are playing a movie) means that you have to dumb it down so that the movie isn't ruined and the movie/cinematic is more focused than gameplay. Although this doesn't apply for all games, this is what the console market is like.

On PC, you find that you have a very very very very diverse gaming market. Cinematic-movie games (for lack of a better word) are less popular there. Strategy games where you actually have to think or go through a lot of trouble and trial and error are most popular there, for example. Genres with actual difficulty and challenges are more apparent and popular. You have many games that aren't dumbed down, like the console market, and instead offer great challenges and difficulty. Games like Cities: Skylines, Elite: Dangerous, Counter Strike: Global Offensive, Factorio, Civilization series, Arma series, etc.

Now, although this comment mainly discussed video games, there is an overall point I am trying to make.
If you look at what is mainstream, then you will always see a specific trend and will only see whatever is mainstream. We are exposed what's mainstream and many people don't like what the mainstream has to offer.
But in reality, whatever is mainstream doesn't really make up a huge amount of that market,art,skill,etc. There are other (in the case of the OP) genres and music scenes out there that can be huge and can be exactly what you expect from music.
The problem is that when we are exposed to whatever is mainstream, we get the thought that whatever is mainstream is the overall norm and what direction something is headed. But if we look at the other sides (in this case, music genres and music scenes), we will find that whatever is mainstream doesn't mean jack # and that it doesn't make up/define the entire spectrum or show the direction things are headed. We also have to note that every single thing has it's own mainstream (Consoles and PC's having their own mainstream games and genres, music genres having their own mainstream artists and subgenres).

I used to think that music went down the drain. But one day I started searching and found loads of new/modern-day genres & artists that I really enjoy and many of them surprisingly being very popular.

musical ideas will constantly be pushed forward. most people living right now's acquired taste in music is reminiscent of people speaking words over sounds to create imagery in where the listener can feel a feeling or emotion, while it connects with their own lives. since musical ideas are pushed forward over time, the people making music now and even generations ago were inspired by genres like rock, jazz, soul, hip hop, country, whatever. not as much classical, but that's what opened the doors to these other genres, which opened the doors to all these crazy sub genres and sounds we hear now that have older people scratching their heads. Now the younger people can connect because the familiararity of how it developed, but since the development to a type of sound that is now in 2017, may have been inspired by some advancement in 2013, which was inspired by something from 2008; someone that has not experienced the development for themselves would maybe have no connection or prior experience to listening to the newer style of music, so it just sounds terrible and makes no sense to them, while younger people appreciate it and can connect to it

then you have another factor, the relevance to the words themselves. rap is the biggest genre right now, by far. why? because the relevance of what they are saying, and how they are saying it. it is very easy to connect to this as a younger person. the more rap stays in the limelight, the more it becomes the biggest genre because the youth is being influenced by this genre so much. in rap, the goal is to say lines like you would say them in real life. the more rappers influence the words and the way the youth interact with each other the more it's strengthening its own prosperity. other genres don't have this effect because the writing style is completely different; less personal and in most cases not affecting the way people interact with their peers at all

last factor, not the last factor in total but the last I'm going to talk about because it is most relevant in the past year, is humour. this has not been utilized that much until now, I'm not talking like, weird al humour, i'm talking lil b the based god humour. raw humour that isn't forced, most of the time you can't even tell if it's done on purpose. this is a key factor going into the next few years; this is a very important aspect of what makes young people share music with their peers, i'll say it again, especially right now more than ever. there are genres dying because they can't grasp this. indie rock/pop is dying fast. rock music, pretty much dead right now, country... lol, r&b? only popping if you're frank ocean or from toronto. you'll see it happen with your own eyes. the artists that will be blowing up now will be hilarious, even if it seems by accident. these will be the artists that get shared amongst groups of people. until there is some other void that needs to be filled. people are trying to escape reality tbh, and you'd think that might lead to some dead serious music but it will just not blow up right now, people want to laugh and be happy

a reply to: whatmakesyouright

The argument was about classical order music.

Classical order music is sophisticated, complex, and dynamic.

Anything that deviates from classical order is dumbed down and simple.

That is why you see metal heads and rappers acting like thugs and those who play the classics are civilized.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: supermilkman

OP You need to sample some progressive rock. Yes, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Deep Purple, some Frank Zappa even. These bands actually incorporated orchestras into their performances. Pink Floyd's the Wall is a story in itself.

But you bring up modern acts. Well for that I direct you to an American Prog rock band of sorts. Umphrey's McGee:

These guys are all equally talented and use complicated hand signals on stage to signal key changes to continue jamming so perfectly.
They also do some damn good covers

Saying that music is getting worse these days is just indicative of a lack of trying for looking. You don't have to like what is popular, but people are ALWAYS making good music.

ETA: I challenge you to listen to that whole 12 minute live song I posted there and try to tell me that isn't great musicianship.

Those are all good musicians. In fact Pink Floyd's Final Cut is full of orchestral music.

Classical order music is the end result of musical mastery.

Just about anyone can play Smells Like Teen Spirit. Not too many people can write the Wall (which has classical elements and orchestras.)

That was the whole point of my thread: it's about classical order music. Modern day musicians can still play classical order music but much of your popular musicians are not even talented. In fact, many of them on the radio don't write their own songs, they have ghost writers.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: supermilkman

Tunas fr continuing to respond , I have a better appreciation where you are coming from now. Thats a good thing.

You're right about hip hop and lost themes. I delve into everything, keeps me balanced...

Life out of balance...

Yeah, see that's what rap was originally about. Spreading awareness to injustices. Now rap turns people into criminals.

originally posted by: intrptr

Because you're sophisticated, enjoy 'classical' order and (of course) seen Koyannisquatsi.

Enjoy...

Did you not read the wikipedia? Classical order music is based off of architectural order/structure that you see in cathedrals.

If anything there is some esoteric knowledge to classical order mathematics.