Trump to name son-in-law Jared Kushner as special adviser

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
a reply to: Indigo5

So you can't come up with any reason of how this screws the American people, OK got it.

...or even how the law applies it seems.
The latest I heard is that it does not even apply to Whitehouse staff, only federal agency staff.

Have you not read the thread?

Or are you interjecting the "what I heard" nonsense in hopes of confusing facts?

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and

(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.

(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Yes I have and even posted the detail of what the Trump lawyers have advised him.
I will take their steer on it and not your interpretations.

It's hardly a big deal anyway.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
a reply to: Indigo5

So you can't come up with any reason of how this screws the American people, OK got it.

...or even how the law applies it seems.
The latest I heard is that it does not even apply to Whitehouse staff, only federal agency staff.

Have you not read the thread?

Or are you interjecting the "what I heard" nonsense in hopes of confusing facts?

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and

(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.

(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Yes I have and even posted the detail of what the Trump lawyers have advised him.
I will take their steer on it and not your interpretations.

It's hardly a big deal anyway.

I will take the actual law over the legal pleadings of Trump's attorney's.

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and

(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.

(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

www.law.cornell.edu...

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
a reply to: Indigo5

So you can't come up with any reason of how this screws the American people, OK got it.

...or even how the law applies it seems.
The latest I heard is that it does not even apply to Whitehouse staff, only federal agency staff.

Have you not read the thread?

Or are you interjecting the "what I heard" nonsense in hopes of confusing facts?

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and

(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.

(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Yes I have and even posted the detail of what the Trump lawyers have advised him.
I will take their steer on it and not your interpretations.

It's hardly a big deal anyway.

I will take the actual law over the legal pleadings of Trump's attorney's.

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and

(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.

(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

www.law.cornell.edu...

I already posted that.
The Whitehouse staff do not belong to a federal agency - that is the lawyers interpretation. All laws are interpreted.
It will be an easy one to solve, if his appointment holds then his lawyers were right , and your interpretation was wrong.
Given your inability to be objective, I will take the experts views over your every time.
You were also completely wrong with your earlier determination that Trump did not care about the law, given his legal team have been working for months on this.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
a reply to: Indigo5

So you can't come up with any reason of how this screws the American people, OK got it.

...or even how the law applies it seems.
The latest I heard is that it does not even apply to Whitehouse staff, only federal agency staff.

Have you not read the thread?

Or are you interjecting the "what I heard" nonsense in hopes of confusing facts?


www.law.cornell.edu...

Yes I have and even posted the detail of what the Trump lawyers have advised him.
I will take their steer on it and not your interpretations.

It's hardly a big deal anyway.

I will take the actual law over the legal pleadings of Trump's attorney's.

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and

(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.

(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

www.law.cornell.edu...

I already posted that.
The Whitehouse staff do not belong to a federal agency - that is the lawyers interpretation. All laws are interpreted.
It will be an easy one to solve, if his appointment holds then his lawyers were right , and your interpretation was wrong.

Given your inability to be objective, I will take the experts views over your every time.

Trump's lawyers are neither "experts" nor "objective"...they are paid to do what he tells them to.

“There’s some wording here they can try to wiggle around, but we all know the intent of the statute,” said Richard Painter, former top White House ethics counsel under President George W. Bush.

“The purpose of the statute seems to me to be to promote confidence in federal employees by prohibiting nepotism,” said Kathleen Clark, an ethics law expert at Washington University in St. Louis. “I don’t see why, logically, it makes sense to exempt the White House from the coverage of the statute.”

“There’s some wording here they can try to wiggle around, but we all know the intent of the statute,” said Richard Painter, former top White House ethics counsel under President George W. Bush.

“The purpose of the statute seems to me to be to promote confidence in federal employees by prohibiting nepotism,” said Kathleen Clark, an ethics law expert at Washington University in St. Louis. “I don’t see why, logically, it makes sense to exempt the White House from the coverage of the statute.”
..

Former Obama White House ethics counsel Norman Eisen dismissed the D.C. Circuit’s language about the anti-nepotism statute as far from definitive. “I would describe it as musing. It was not the holding of the case,” he said. “There’s a lot of maybes and possiblys in there.”

Eisen called a potential Kushner appointment “possibly or even probably illegal,” while acknowledging it’s unclear how a court would rule on the issue.

www.politico.com...

Law professor Steve Vladeck from the University of Texas told CNN in November that while the statute could be challenged, the risk is that a court could rule that any action taken by the relative in an official role could be questioned.

“While it’s true that the penalty for violation of the statute is just to withhold salary or other financial remuneration from the wrongfully appointed employee, there’s also the possibility that any action taken by such a wrongfully appointed employee could be subject to legal challenge and potentially even be voidable,” Vladeck said.

Two recent White House ethics counsels, Richard Painter and Norman Eisen, also believe an appointment such as Kushner’s would violate the Anti-Nepotism Statute.

www.yahoo.com...

I will give you that it is not settled law, but the fact that Trump is so eager to challenge anti-nepotism laws and practice, where past Presidents have steered clear from the appearance of ethical misconduct, does not bode well for the next 4 years.

And..there is certainly enough there to be legally challenged..like you said, we will see what the courts decide in the coming months.

a reply to: UKTruth

The Whitehouse staff do not belong to a federal agency - that is the lawyers interpretation. All laws are interpreted.

That's absurd. The Executive Office of the President is a federal agency.

Executive Order 8248 makes it clear that the President's staff are federal employees.

Advisor is not a federal position. Only cabinet members which are secretaries, administrators, directors and the attorney general are.

For those saying that Senior Adviser is not a Federal position. The White House provides a list of all White House staff and salaries to Congress and has done so since 1995. All of Obama's current advisers are on that list. His staff is paid with Federal dollars. That makes them employees of the Fed Gov.

Trump is testing the waters to see what he can get away with... this is only the beginning.

a reply to: BigTrumpFan


White House staffers, including the senior advisors, are federal employees.

Pay at the White House reflects higher salaries federal government employees, in general.

Top salaries of $172,200 go to 22 people in President Obama's core team, like Senior Advisor Valerie Jarrett, Counselor John Podesta and Director of the National Economic Council Jeffrey Zients. Their salaries have remained the same since 2010, when President Obama froze the pay scale.
money.cnn.com...

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday announced a two-year pay freeze for civilian federal workers.....

Civilian federal workers like Valerie Jarrett, Obama's Senior Advisor.

Need more? White House Salaries

Valerie Jarrett, line# 199, is listed as "EMPLOYEE", as in Federal Employee!

Son is law is hardly a close relative. Heck, Trump and Hillary are both descended from John of Gaunt, son of King Edward III, grandfather of King Henry VII. Son in law is a weaker relation than that. Nepotism law does not cover son in laws IMO.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: BigTrumpFan


White House staffers, including the senior advisors, are federal employees.

Pay at the White House reflects higher salaries federal government employees, in general.

Top salaries of $172,200 go to 22 people in President Obama's core team, like Senior Advisor Valerie Jarrett, Counselor John Podesta and Director of the National Economic Council Jeffrey Zients. Their salaries have remained the same since 2010, when President Obama froze the pay scale.
money.cnn.com...

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday announced a two-year pay freeze for civilian federal workers.....

Civilian federal workers like Valerie Jarrett, Obama's Senior Advisor.

Need more? White House Salaries

Valerie Jarrett, line# 199, is listed as "EMPLOYEE", as in Federal Employee!

Federal Agency is the term covered by the LBJ law.
We will get the outcome shortly. Yours, and my own, interpretations are pretty meaningless right now.

a reply to: BigTrumpFan

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the President and a Member of Congress), a member of the uniformed service, an employee and any other individual, in whom is vested the authority by law, rule, or regulation, or to whom the authority has been delegated, to appoint, employ, promote, or advance individuals, or to recommend individuals for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement in connection with employment in an agency; and



(3) “relative” means, with respect to a public official, an individual who is related to the public official as father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, or half sister.



(b) A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official. An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Jared is taking an unofficial advisor role. It is not paid and is therefore not a job nor a position. Heck, I can appoint my dog as an advisor if I wanted to.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: BigTrumpFan


White House staffers, including the senior advisors, are federal employees.

Pay at the White House reflects higher salaries federal government employees, in general.

Top salaries of $172,200 go to 22 people in President Obama's core team, like Senior Advisor Valerie Jarrett, Counselor John Podesta and Director of the National Economic Council Jeffrey Zients. Their salaries have remained the same since 2010, when President Obama froze the pay scale.
money.cnn.com...

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday announced a two-year pay freeze for civilian federal workers.....

Civilian federal workers like Valerie Jarrett, Obama's Senior Advisor.

Need more? White House Salaries

Valerie Jarrett, line# 199, is listed as "EMPLOYEE", as in Federal Employee!

Federal Agency is the term covered by the LBJ law.
We will get the outcome shortly. Yours, and my own, interpretations are pretty meaningless right now.

The Executive Office of the President is a federal agency.

a reply to: windword

A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving.

We'll see if the Executive Office of the Presidency is classified as such an agency. That is the point, I believe, the lawyers are making. That it is not.

a reply to: windword

Like I said, we'll see what the determination is.
Your position is opposite to trumps lawyers and I am sure in line with Democrat oppisition.
We'll soon find out who is right.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: windword

A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving.

We'll see if the Executive Office of the Presidency is classified as such an agency. That is the point, I believe, the lawyers are making. That it is not.

Exactly. Jared is not serving in an agency. He is an unofficial advisor. Nothing wrong with that. Does not break the law.

The President himself is not an agency. Only people he appoint to are agencies. These include his cabinet which are VP, secretaries, administrators, directors and the attorney general.

a reply to: BigTrumpFan

He's taking a legitimate, budgeted, federal job, Senior Advisor to the President. The fact that he won't be able to take a salary/paycheck proves that he knows that his appointment is illegal.

The President himself is not an agency. Only people he appoint to are agencies. These include his cabinet which are VP, secretaries, administrators, directors and the attorney general.

No law is broken. Move on. Nothing to see here.

a reply to: windword

I wonder how they are paid?

Edit..I see it's an unpaid position??

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: windword

A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving.

We'll see if the Executive Office of the Presidency is classified as such an agency. That is the point, I believe, the lawyers are making. That it is not.

Wow. Talk about sexism. Back then women were not expected to serve. That's why it's he, not he or she.