The Word was with God, and the Word was A god

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, but rhetoric is rhetoric and that's what that was.

An accurate description, nothing personal and I don't like or dislike it at all, it's meaningless.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Akragon

And they all go together.

Technically Jesus never said any of it, as he did not write any of it. So either it's the word of God or is not, can't pick and choose what pieces you like.

Oh but i can...

I hold to no religious affiliation... Thus i can agree with what sounds right to me... or at least with what complies with what Jesus apparently said.

HE never claimed to be God, or equal to God... or the creator of anything... SO said verses do not comply with Jesus' words... they're johns narrative...

At least you admit he didn't make that claim... thats a good start

originally posted by: AkragonThus i can agree with what sounds right to me...

Unless you are saying you are Holy, picking what sounds right to you does not make something Holy.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AkragonThus i can agree with what sounds right to me...

Unless you are saying you are Holy, picking what sounds right to you does not make something Holy.

Not at all...

i am just a normal person, like anyone else... the difference being i know what he said... almost by heart

claims of him being God fall utterly short... And equality is not ever mentioned, with the exception of one verse... a claim by the Jews who were mistaken in their premise to begin with

a reply to: Akragon

Sorry, your position of I can't trust what the author says even though I trust the author to be right about what Jesus said is kind of bizarre, and as I said, if you are not Holy, then the end result of you choosing only what you like can never end up as something Holy.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Akragon

Sorry, your position of I can't trust what the author says even though I trust the author to be right about what Jesus said is kind of bizarre, and as I said, if you are not Holy, then the end result of you choosing only what you like can never end up as something Holy.

I don't find it bizarre at all... IF the author was John he probably heard Jesus speak... and throughout his gospel he uses narration to continue the story... Most of what Jesus said can be referenced in the other gospels

John's gospel is the exception to the rule because he adds a lot of narration to the book, including the idea that he was God in the flesh... not something found in his words anywhere...

IF one follows what he apparently said in these books the real story comes through

a reply to: Akragon

If he was adding his slant then he would change Jesus' words to fit his slant.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Akragon

If he was adding his slant then he would change Jesus' words to fit his slant.

One could assume that... but again, IF one knows what he actually said... its easy to see what he taught and what he didn't...

You could assume that he added his slant as you put it... but one can also assume he wrote down exactly what he said as well... and IF said words comply with other books... its probably accurate

Only one book says he is God in the flesh... or "The word"... or the creator of all things

Ironically also the last gospel written as well

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Akragon

If he was adding his slant then he would change Jesus' words to fit his slant.

One could assume that... but again, IF one knows what he actually said... its easy to see what he taught and what he didn't...

You could assume that he added his slant as you put it... but one can also assume he wrote down exactly what he said as well... and IF said words comply with other books... its probably accurate

Only one book says he is God in the flesh... or "The word"... or the creator of all things

Ironically also the last gospel written as well

You seem to have a Papacy complex ak
It seems you are the only one who knows and understands the truth and you then proclaim it a people like clubbing a seal

You just don't know, unless you have secret knowledge

So what is that secret knowledge ak

What makes you so right

a reply to: Raggedyman

its no secret brother... its all there for anyone to read...

Perhaps i am the only one that actually reads these books...

Christians tend to focus on pauls teaching...

what makes me right is that most can't argue with Jesus actual words... even though many seem to try

a reply to: Akragon

I read mine every day. I cannot really give an accurate number, but if I was to make a calculation that over 23 years of being a Christian I have read the Entire Bible through three times a year (69 times), but I read the new testament over at least nine times a year (207 time.

Not to mention the numerous regular preparation and study for teaching and preaching three times a week for 16 years of ministry I did from 1997 to 2013, going through the Bible three times in that time just teaching chapter by chapter (if I had to guess it would be ) 2,800 times in 17 years on top of all my other reading.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Sure... i can't even count the times i've read it over... i don't see a point in keeping track anymore...

In any case in all that reading you still side with Paul over Jesus...

Confounds me...

a reply to: Akragon

Paul has expounded on the teaching by revelation of Jesus.

Since Lastdays/Gnosisisfaith/SethTsaddik raised the accusation of Paul inventing Christianity last December I went through all of Jesus and Paul's teaching and found that all that is happened is Paul expanded on all his teachings except keeping the law of Moses. We couldn't keep the law anyway seeing there is no temple in Jerusalem.

And once the kingdom is established at the end of the 7 year times of Jacob's trouble (i.e. tribulation) all sacrifices will still be on going but not for forgiveness but for worship of Jesus Christ.

In the end over this last year my faith in Jesus is stronger and more established than all the 22 years prior.

Happy New Year Brother!

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Actually that was my thread...

You of course are welcome to your beliefs, but i will most definitely disagree that paul expanded Jesus teaching...

Paul added his own teaching to the new testament... many, IF not most are completely unknown to Jesus

Perhaps you should reevaluate your findings with an unbiased approach...

in any case happy new year to you too brother

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
"Yeah... except he didn't say "As I Am, so can you Be" " - Akragon

Perhaps you might read the book. He certainly did say that (if not an exact quote, it is close enough!).

If Jesus had said that he would have been saying 'you are not the same as me but you can be'.
'I am' is present tense. 'Can be' is future tense. The point is no one 'can be'. No one lives in the future - there isn't a future - future is a word.

When Jesus said that, he meant that we are capable of Enlightenment/unconditional Love!
That while so engaged, one is certainly "like him", even moreso, one is One with him!

a reply to: namelesss

Perhaps you might read the book. He certainly did say that (if not an exact quote, it is close enough!).

Actually thats why i know he didn't say that...

I read the gospels...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: namelesss

Yeah... except he didn't say "As I Am, so can you Be"

so...

Perhaps you should read the book?

www.libertynet.org...

'GOD condescended to impute unto men, because of the hardness of their hearts, this Love that will melt a heart of stone. I put before you a Love that is beyond utterance and this Love is a sample and example for men and women in all walks of life that you may be even as I AM: laying no mortal claims on any material thing; relaxing your conscious mentality and recognizing all things are given unto you; allowing the CHRIST within you to realize HIS at-one-ment as being you, as being the inheritor of all that you have, and hence, you being an inheritor of all that is in the world.'

a reply to: namelesss

Like i said above... i have many times...

Especially the gospels...

HE didn't say such a thing...

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: namelesss

Yeah... except he didn't say "As I Am, so can you Be"

so...

Perhaps you should read the book?

www.libertynet.org...

'GOD condescended to impute unto men, because of the hardness of their hearts, this Love that will melt a heart of stone. I put before you a Love that is beyond utterance and this Love is a sample and example for men and women in all walks of life that you may be even as I AM: laying no mortal claims on any material thing; relaxing your conscious mentality and recognizing all things are given unto you; allowing the CHRIST within you to realize HIS at-one-ment as being you, as being the inheritor of all that you have, and hence, you being an inheritor of all that is in the world.'

Well no... perhaps you should

that is not from the bible... perhaps some sort of stitched up quote using pieces of the bible...

but regardless that isn't biblical...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

To the best of my knowledge, HS is always associated with feminine nouns and verbs in the OT, and neuter in the NT. The HS is spirit, so can spirit really have gender? I personally don't know, but the HS certainly takes on a motherly role in the Bible.

If you can refute my personal opinion, then please do so with Hebrew/Greek OT and Greek NT...if you choose another language, then please explain why.

I don't mind hearing your opinion, but I would like to see it supported with objectivity.