National Geographic’ just made history with its new cover--9 year Old Transgender Activist

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Annee

Yeah, I know. It was a cheap shot

The typo that is.

Peace

a reply to: Teikiatsu

LOL so you're dismissing it because t's a "statistical non-issue"?
You really need to work on your debating skills.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

My main concern is about the pressure being placed on this kid and I'm really interested in your thoughts from that perspective. I initially was concerned that if the kid changed their mind they wouldn't be able to stop the ball rolling however you've convinced me that's an unfounded concern.

Before I begin, apologies for another TLDR post. This subject is complex and there is so much information people don't know or are curious about and as this subject is somewhat personal, restraint doesn't come easy.

You pose some good question but in asking for my thoughts, I'm not sure my perspective holds any particular weight or value over those of any other and I'm not familiar with this family's history or situation. However, the question of if parents can be overly supportive putting pressure on their child to not stop the ball rolling, as you say, is one I have heard asked before.

All I can say is that I hope that is not the case. If this whole thing is not totally driven by the child, then there may be something wrong? Consider though that most parents initially have a hard time coming to terms with a transgender child and go through a process of accepting them for who they are. The steps taken in evaluating trans children also include assessment and counseling of the parents, siblings and checks out the familial situation in general looking for red flags so hopefully exploitive motivations would be identified.

The parents I have heard speak to this question often say they will support and love their children no matter what they decide or how things work out which of course is the best attitude to have. There are multiple thousands of parents with trans children involved in online community and local support groups trying to learn the best ways to help their children so they grow up healthy and happy and become productive adults.

There was nothing like this when I was growing up and very few in the medical and mental health field knew what the hell they were doing so awareness of this condition and groups and organizations and even mother's on a crusade are important for networking parents together with other parents and even trans children with other trans kids. These things are valuable resources as are similar opportunities for parents and families dealing with autism, leukemia, cancer, etc. but "transgender" is not quite so well established so awareness, even through the cover and lead story in a magazine is going to help others learn.

People take this seriously. Their kids lives and their futures are at stake. Having a transgender child can tear apart families and extended family relationships, cause financial and legal problems, problems with schools or neighborhoods and parents worry if their kids are going to be safe from others and from self-harm.

Jazz Jennings was one of the first transgender children to gain public attention in this country when she transitioned at 5, ten years ago. Her parents were accused of exploitation and pimping her out to the media for their own fame or notoriety but there's a fine line to draw here and I can see both sides. Most parents are very protective of their trans children's privacy for reasons of safety and so their kids can live normal unassuming lives just like any other kid but if every family did this, how would we know trans kids were even a thing without those that have stood up to tell their story? Every cause needs a poster kid or two, right?

There has to be a certain level of promotion going on to bring awareness of this condition that can only be done when some do step out of the shadows. Broader understanding of these things makes it better for every family raising transgender children and reduces the stigma and confusion about what being trans is but I can't imagine being the ones that stand in the spotlight doesn't also come with some sacrifice and compromise.

Children like Jazz, Corey Maison, Kim Petras, Nicole Maines and others that have been in the public eye are foisted into the role of trans activists and advocates by default and while this is good for awareness and the trans "community" as a whole, it sorts of brands them as trans for life which I think is kind of sad in a way. Consider though, I'm two generations older than these kids and when I went through the process, attitudes about being openly trans were very different than they are today so my feelings about this may be out of date if not outright old fashioned? Most kids want to tell their story and those like Jazz, Corey and Nicole know that just being visible is helping those that might be in the same boat and those that are figuring it out. I had never even met another trans person of any age or flavor until I was 22 and it wasn't until I was 60 that I came to know someone else well that dealt with being trans as a child. Knowing that there were other people out there like me would have meant everything when I was a kid.

--more below, unfortunately --

--continued from above --

But do you think this issue is too big for a kid to handle?
Or am I overthinking and the kid's no different to your Shirley Temple's and Macauley Culkins?

Transgender kids aren't dumb. Most have dealt with things or are dealing with things most other people won't in a lifetime so it does add a degree of seriousness and maturity about life but these kids seem to be doing very with bright and happy futures ahead of them. Don't know if true or not but I've heard trans people called resilient and tenacious. I think these kids will do okay and can "handle it".

For those that are in the public eye, perhaps some of the aspects your celebrity analogy would apply but most of these kids just want to be discrete and fit in.

So what's in store for little Avery on the cover or NatGeo. What happens to these young kids when they get a little older? Decide for yourself. Here's two 14/15 year olds that transitioned early that went on puberty blockers and HRT. Care not so much for their content, just for the vibe.

First up, Undeniably Kate. She transitioned to living as a girl in the 2nd grade and got kicked out of Catholic school in the process. What a smart and bubbly kid. Do you see any degree of "confusion" here and how could you not think this kid was going places in life? She talks about how and why she came out in the 9th grade. Keeping secrets does come at a cost but another one or her reasons was to help educate others about being trans. Sharing knowledge to foster understanding is what drives me to be here even if everybody isn't going to get it.



Next, a video from Emily Tressa talking about her medical experience and boobs! She's a bit sassy, a bit spacey but there's no doubt whatsoever she knows what she's doing and where she's going. At least that's the impression I get.



Anyone that realistically thinks these aren't girls that are going to grow up to be amazing women, needs to have their heads AND their hearts examined.


Oh, to Mr. T
I've been on break from ATS for a short while but it's nice to see a familiar face upon my return. Thanks for not letting down my expectations of seeing your joyous comments in every thread with transgender in the topic (for some curious reason?) Say hi to the Mrs. for me. Love you both. So much.


Thanks everyone else for all the kind words and to others for adding to the discussion.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: jjsr420
Starting to think this whole "freedom of speech" thing needs to be rethought. Such ignorance, and blatant dismissal of evidence by people who can't even grasp,the difference between (biological) sex, and gender. There is a difference.

Yes. One is real. One is imagined.

I'm sure you can provide scientific evidence backing up your statement. I'd hate to think it was merely rectally sourced.

I don't need to. The burden is on those people who claim they have scientific proof that there is such a thing as a man trapped in a woman's body and vice versa*. In the meantime, Occam's Razor is sufficient to say 'delusion'.

Don't even try to bring up brain scans. In addition to being faulty, they have not been applied in a manner that can be replicated.

You need to get scans on:

1) So-called transgenders *before* and after they have undergone any hormone or psychological therapy.
2) Non-dysphoria people who *have* undergone identical hormone or psychological therapy, also before and after.
3) A statistically sufficient sampling size of both populations [1] and [2]

...before you can make any scientific claim.

All we have is post-therapy for [1] and pre-therapy for [2]

So drop the 'scientific' moniker. That sh#t don't shine, but it sure stinks.

I think it's Nat Geo you want to challenge, not me. I just challenged you to cite your sources, and you seem to have some difficulty with that. If I were you, I'd be more concerned as to why you are getting all caught up in other people's "sh#t" to begin with.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu


'Gender Dysphoria' is a mental delusion.

For people who keep saying this, I would really like to know what you think the recommended treatment should be? I mean, mental delusion implies therapy and/or anti-psych meds would be in order. The problem is, therapy doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't make the symptoms of dysphoria go away. There has been no anti-psychotic drug that will make the dysphoria symptoms go away.

If psycho-therapy and anti-psychotic meds don't resolve the issue, doesn't that point to the issue not being simply a mental delusion?

The only time I have ever heard anti-psych meds working is with people who have an existing mental illness like schizophrenia, and who fall under lots of delusions depending on the day/week/month, such as they are Jesus Christ, they are Napoleon, they are an alien, they are Satan, they are the opposite gender, etc. Mental healthcare experts can usually differentiate between those people and people who have true gender dysphoria. That's why they prescribe anti-psychotic meds for the people with mental delusions, and they prescribe hormones for the people with true gender dysphoria.

originally posted by: Freija
Anyone that realistically thinks these aren't girls that are going to grow up to be amazing women, needs to have their heads AND their hearts examined.

I'm probably overdue for an examination but their success isn't guaranteed because they are trans. Just like dumb kids aren't magically not dumb kids because they are trans. Their life experience may make them smarter than all the other kids but a smart kid is still dumb.

I guess I look forward to a day when a trans person can be disliked for the content of their character rather than something they have no control over. It's nice to see Blaire White being disliked by so many because of what she says rather than who she is.

Thanks for your input, it's a complicated issue and I can't understand what it's like not to have any representation in the media. Even if it is bad for the kid (which is questionable), the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

I guess this kid has equal chance of being River Pheonix or one of the Olsen twins.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
If psycho-therapy and anti-psychotic meds don't resolve the issue, doesn't that point to the issue not being simply a mental delusion?

It doesn't point to that at all.
It could be a mental delusion which they don't have a cure for yet.

The best solutions at the moment use hormones etc. and people should have access to the best solutions.
Even if it is just a band-aid fix it's better than no band-aid.

In the future we could look back at these procedures like we look back at doctors using leaches. But if I was living 100years ago I would have wanted access to the best leaches.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: kaylaluv
If psycho-therapy and anti-psychotic meds don't resolve the issue, doesn't that point to the issue not being simply a mental delusion?

It doesn't point to that at all.
It could be a mental delusion which they don't have a cure for yet.

The mental health experts don't agree with you. If they did, they'd be working on a drug for it. I see no signs that anyone is working on a anti-psychotic drug to cure gender dysphoria, do you? What I DO see in the research that has been done, is that they are leaning more and more towards gender dysphoria being a biological or neurological disorder, not a mental disorder.

Live and let live...I don't know why it bothers some so much.
If you don't agree with it don't get a sex change.
Why berate people when it has now to do with us?.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
The mental health experts don't agree with you.

I'm not making a claim either way.
And as you state they they are leaning more and more towards bio or neuro you don't seem to be making a claim either.

The best solutions at the moment involve HRT and that's fine and what should be used.
Suggesting that will always be the case isn't doing anyone any favors.

a reply to: JWallyUSA
so you want to push them back into the closet or like you said...in the basements?

Should we put chains on them and dress them up as animals? So drug research on them?

WTF is wrong with people like you

a reply to: JWallyUSA

How very ignorant of you. Do people who are different bother you?. To call people things...says a lot about you that does.
Leather chaps? I bet you hate gay folk also.
I work with people with learning disabilities and many lack empathy just like you....I tell them to put themselves in other people's shoes....maybe you should also.

My female dog likes to hump the sh*t outta her chew toys.....Can i add a penis on her???