Trump picks "Mad Dog" Mattis for Secretary of Defense

a reply to: seagull

That article I linked is one of many coming up just now. You might read it for starters...and if no other reason that I suspect this will be brought up and litigated in confirmation hearings...there are still a few Dems left in congress.

There are echoes of what the GOP accused Clinton of in Behngazi...Soldiers dying on the ground waiting for a Mattis to send EVAC as he was only 30 minutes away and his refusal to do so even as some under him were arguing to go.

They finally received EVAC from a unit 3 hours away and men died of their wounds in transit.

It's going to be a question...and it's being asked by Green Berets...not "liberals".

Retired Green Beret says Mattis left 'my men to die' in Afghanistan
www.stripes.com...

Former Special Forces Officer: Gen. 'Mad Dog' Mattis Left 'My Men to Die'
www.nbcnews.com...

This may have been legendary Marine Corps General Mattis' one mistake in battle
www.businessinsider.com...

a reply to: Indigo5

It certainly should be a question.

I'm not going to make judgement, however, 'til I know more. Given the nature of things over in Afghanistan at that time, I'm not going to pretend to even pretend to know what all was going on.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Indigo5

It certainly should be a question.

Agreed..

Below is the a Pic of the Special Ops team that Mattis refused to help..One died instantaneously...two more died in hours that followed waiting on the EVAC Mattis refused to send.

a reply to: Indigo5

This all sounds really good until you realize this guy is married to an Obama White House advisor and has had a hard onnfor upper military brass in the past. No bias there

Not only a former advisor, but has a decided interest in scaling back military manpower in favor of drones. To top it off, she has known Obama for a LONG time, being a former student of his...definitely appears that there is no bias here
fortune.com...

a reply to: seagull

My understanding of it, though I wasn't there, is that the conversation was, essentially:

Army SF Guy - We have casualties and need CASEVAC.

Mattis - Okay, what happened and what's happening?

Army SF Guy - Dunno, need help.

Mattis - What's the situation?

Army SF Guy - Dunno, need help.

Mattis - Okay, go figure out wtf is happening because I'm not committing troops to a completely unknown situation.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Indigo5

This all sounds really good until you realize this guy is married to an Obama White House advisor and has had a hard onnfor upper military brass in the past. No bias there

Who is that?

a reply to: Indigo5

The man you mentioned in your post...Jason Amerine.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Shamrock6

Not at all. You have outed yourself as exactly what I've described. Combat is brutal, ugly, and nothing to be lauded or held up in high regard (unless you think that killing is a morally good thing). What he should apologize for is implying that because someone is against war they are a 'pussy' which is exactly like I described: an over-compensatory macho driven ego.

It's the sort of thing that rallies the troops though. For ordinary soldiers they're not supposed to think on the battlefield, they're supposed to act macho and do brave/stupid things. If you want your soldiers to be effective, you need to keep them in a certain mindset. It's not the mindset of actual functioning adults, but it's what keeps soldiers doing their jobs without getting needlessly killed.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
Not only a former advisor, but has a decided interest in scaling back military manpower in favor of drones. To top it off, she has known Obama for a LONG time, being a former student of his...definitely appears that there is no bias here
fortune.com...

uhhh.

She is a lawyer that specializes in Drone laws.

The incident happened in 2001

He immediately filed reports...and he wasn't the only one.

He wrote the book about Afghanistan and Mattis's failure to send help in 2011

He met her in 2012 and married her..June 2016

I understand your eagerness to conveniently smear a LT. COl. Green Berets that was one of the first into Afghanistan in 2001 while Ground Zero was still hot...and a recipient of the Bronze Star and Purple Heart...

But reality (specifically time itself) doesn't support your bizzare smear that involves President Obama 5 years ago suspecting Trump would run for President and win in 2016 and pick Mattis for his cabinet so he best use a former law student to seduce a Lt. Col. so he can get started and publish a book about Mattis 5 years before the election and Mattis is named!!!

Honestly...WTF is wrong with people's brains? I get some folks live in a "post-truth era" where BS is celebrated..but for effs sake..some parts of the reasoning centers must still work? Does time exist your world?

originally posted by: Annee
This just feels regressive to me. Hopefully, this general has evolved too - - it just doesn't sound like it.

I wouldn't read too much into it. Bravado is the name of the game for combat soldiers. That type of talk is what keeps morale high and people functioning on emotion rather than reason. If you let soldiers think, they realize what a stupid thing they're doing, or worse they see the enemy as human beings defending their homes... then empathy sets in and people die.

I doubt he's going to subvert womens rights, he's not even against women in the military so much as he's concerned with the logistics of putting men and women together without having problems stem from that.

a reply to: Indigo5

Conspiracy? Your words, not mine.
Being an early combat vet of this conflict is admirable, but doesn't give him the moral high ground.
He went public with his criticism of Mattis, although the scenario he presents is questionable, at best.
He basically used the press to sully the name of a fellow soldier.
He wasn't keen on how hostage negotiators handled business.
He didn't go through proper channels to effect change
He went to a civilian to expose possibly sensitive or classified info
When he was put on notice about this he once again goes running to the press.
He's cleared, but why?
Because he was without blame?
Or because to continue to prosecute him would open up other cans of worms?
It's funny that neither the Army nor the FBI apologized or comments.
The guy has an agenda, and people with agendas associate with similar people always.
His wife is an Obama crony.
You connect the dots.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Indigo5

His wife is an Obama crony.
You connect the dots.

His wife, who specializes in Civilian UAV laws...aka ..can you fly your drone over a wildfire and not interfere with firefighting operations etc. etc. was an ex-student of Obama's.

He met her in 2012...4 years ago...married her in 2016..4 months ago...and this incident he wrote about in 2011 happened in 2001..

So no...I will not connect the dots...for effs sake..time is a real thing...so are BS smear campaigns of decorated Green Berets..

a reply to: Indigo5

Once again, you're making the false argument that I am contending that his wife has something to do with some of his decisions. I am not
I am saying that people associate with like minded people-always
She is a liberal Obama crony
The company you keep says a lot about who you are
That is my argument

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Indigo5

Once again, you're making the false argument that I am contending that his wife has something to do with some of his decisions. I am not

that is exactly what you argued..right here on this page a few posts up..

I am saying that people associate with like minded people-always
She is a liberal Obama crony
The company you keep says a lot about who you are
That is my argument

You are full sh*&..That is my argument. You posts on this page prove the same.

a reply to: seagull

this is his FB post..And lots of Vets are backing him in comments on FB

Monday marks fifteen years since the friendly fire that killed JD Davis, Dan Petithory, Cody Prosser, Barigul and scores of other Afghans just north of Kandahar (I always felt fifty killed was a tragic but accurate estimate).

It seemed fated that Mattis would be announced as SECDEF so close to the anniversary and many of my friends have been reaching out to ask me what he did or didn’t do that day. The delay of Mattis in launching MEDEVAC on December 5th was never in question, not even by him. The only debate was whether it was justified and how many died as a result.

At the time of the friendly fire, my element was not in enemy contact and a surrender delegation was enroute to us from the Taliban regime to end that stage of the war. The friendly fire that hit us was identified immediately. ‘Fog of war’ would rightly have delayed the situational awareness of Mattis but he also had a Major and Sergeant Major from our own SOCCE (liaisons from 5th Group) begging him to fly to his face, along with radio calls from my element, JSOC and the CIA.

His forces at Rhino, just outside Kandahar, were not in significant enemy contact and they had nothing else to do that morning: Mattis had asked days earlier to help with assaulting Kandahar and I, through Karzai, had them sit in place at Rhino so we could force the surrender without US forces causing the Afghans to change their minds.

Mattis had an excuse to delay launching MEDEVAC while he gathered the facts but not the six hours it took for AFSOC, with the same information, to fly all the way from Pakistan in obsolete MH53s and MEDEVAC us to his landing strip at Rhino.

Every element in Afghanistan tried to help us except the closest friendly unit, commanded by Mattis. Men were ready to drive to get us or send horses from the other side of the country if that was what it took. Mattis finally released his assets after AFSOC landed at Rhino, covering our first load of wounded in dust from their rotor wash as they launched.

Cody died around the time we reached Rhino and I was told at least two Afghans died because of the delay but nobody knows for certain. None of that was assessed properly because 5th Group chose not to call for a formal investigation. 5th Group wanted to end the bad press associated with the friendly fire and the inaction by Mattis only made it worse so they buried my angry complaints and sought to shut me up about everything that happened that day.

So I never stopped speaking out about it for the last fifteen years. Maybe Mattis was a good general later in his career by whatever standard you want but it has been bizarre to suddenly see these facts up for debate. He was indecisive and betrayed his duty to us, leaving my men to die during the golden hour when he could have reached us.
AFSOC shamed him into action.

Mattis was never held accountable but maybe he learned from it. After all, he relieved one of his battalion commanders two years later for being too hesitant in combat, just as he had been at Rhino (which we all found terribly ironic). When he was passed over for Commandant, I took that as an indicator that the Marine hierarchy recognized his flaws.

Thanks to Facebook mob mentality, there has been a revisionist history of the man who left us to die but is now compared to Patton due to his juvenile quotes that demean all of us as service members. And that is all I have to say on the matter. In the coming days, I will instead reflect on the valor of all my men---American and Afghan---who fought an incredible campaign in southern Afghanistan. And I will be forever grateful to the AFSOC pilots who came to our rescue.

a reply to: Indigo5

Then you'll have no problem pointing out where I did that. I need a shower and have to run to the store. Afterwards I am having dinner and a few beers. After all that has been done you will still be figuring out how to twist my clear posts to fit your agenda. Have at it!

a reply to: Indigo5

Lots of vets? How can you prove that they aren't bogus accounts?

a reply to: Aazadan

Where the Hell do you get that bunch of crap?

Not supposed to think? Not think? Good way to get killed, and your friends killed, too.

Act macho and do brave/stupid things on the battlefield? Do you even have half a clue what you're speaking of? Personally, I don't think you do.

Not actual functioning adults? Then what, pray, are they?

a reply to: Shamrock6

I've been busily reading up on the incident...still have some to do, but that's my initial take on it, as well. ...and by the time the situation had been figured out, it was over.

Sad incident, but not uncommon in a "fog of war" incident.

This is going to come up in his confirmation hearing, without question, his answers will tell a lot. He strikes me as an honest guy, so I guess we'll see.