Utopian future will not work

a reply to: TerryDon79

Completely agreed, the UK benefits system is essentially a basic income system.

Mate of mine hasn't worked for years, he's happy.
Rent for 1 bedroom apartment paid in full, housing/council tax paid in full, £75 per week cash to spend on gas, electricity, food etc.
He doesn't drink or smoke and has a fantastic simple life which suits him.

Throw in free dentistry, health care and medicine from the NHS, free newspapers and Internet access at the municipal library, it's most definitely a basic life with all 'needs' met.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: TerryDon79

Some religious such as Gnosticism promote the notion that this verse actually is hell.

Sometimes I would agree with that, but other times completely disagree. It all depends on what's happening at the time (good things vs bad things).

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: eNumbra

That's exactly what benefits are here in the UK.

You get your shelter paid (in Scotland. England is bit weird with how they do their housing benefit). You get money every fortnight for food, water, gas and electricity (and any other bills).

It's a basic living benefit.

Many places do.

Many more places do not. Some of those places, it's possible to work and still live below the poverty line.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Actually. ....even though what I described sounds very labor intensive. .the actual amount of work needing to be done overall will be much less. I fully expect that we would find that 6 hr work days would be sufficient to accomplish the daily goals.

In the present consumption driven economy. ..most of the world's labor is spent manufacturing what I would term "future landfill "...in other words things that are only being made because of the existence of money. And things that will quickly become unused and obsolete. On top of that a consumption driven economy also leads to massive over production in almost every sector...waste is rampant under the present system.

Under the system I envision everybody will have a job. ..yet the workload for any one individual will be light...as the old saying goes "many hands make light work ".

I could give many examples of why the overall workload will be greatly reduced under this system that I have in mind. ..for instance in the system I envision. ..the pods that we would live in would not have kitchens. ..because we would eat in a number of cafeterias. That fact alone reduces the need for a huge amount of products...a few sets of large pots will take the place of hundreds of individual sets...and yet everyone that enjoys or has an interest in cooking will have the opportunity to be on the crews of cooks and chefs that are on a rotating schedule.

Now how much labor would be eliminated in a system that used bicycles and enclosed bikeways verses the present system...let me just say the amount is staggering. Compare the upkeep of a bike compared to a car ( keep in mind the new system is designed around this type of transportation system )...now what about the upkeep of enclosed bikeways compared to the present highway system. ..just the fact that there would be no need to remove snow from the bikeways would be huge. ..and we're not even scratching the surface yet. Reduction of fuel production, oil production, tires, maintenance, the list goes on

a reply to: TerryDon79

Good things versus bad things through, its more like shades of grey, perception after all being the cruel mistress that she is.

a reply to: HarryJoy

All that's really doing is streamlining useful production and eliminating production of luxuries.

The ultimate outcome ounds kind of boring (everyone doing and having the same things). Where's the uniqueness that makes a person a person?

a reply to: TerryDon79

It sounds like some kind of socialist commune nightmare to me!
I don't want to be forced to eat or cook communally, WTF? !
I may choose to, but forced no chance.

a reply to: grainofsand

That's what most people's idea of utopia normally boils down to. An extreme version of socialism.

Instead of "everyone SHOULD do this and that" it turns into "everyone WILL do this and that".

a reply to: TerryDon79

Yeah I'm happy with the basic income/living benefits system we have in the UK.
Free medicine would make a massive difference alone for places like the US...I'm shocked how many hundreds of $'s my American friends have to spend on drugs each month.

No wonder so many want this 'utopia' of a basic income.

a reply to: grainofsand

Universal healthcare won't work in the US. Too many insurance companies that have officials in their back pockets.

I'm also surprised at the amount of people who just flat out don't want it. "Pay an extra 0.5%-1% tax and never worry about healthcare? No thanks!" It just boggles my mind.

"We do what we do in service and appreciation, not for reward, if you don't understand that, then you missed the boat, you don't understand the teachings of the wisest men that ever lived"-Jacque Fresco, The Venus Project



"The greatest destroyer of ecology. The greatest source of waste, depletion and pollution. The greatest purveyor of violence, war, crime, poverty, animal abuse and inhumanity. The greatest generator of personal and social neurosis, mental disorders, depression, anxiety. Not to mention the greatest source of social paralysis, stopping us from moving into new methodologies for personal health, global sustainability and progress on this planet, is not some corrupt government or legislation.
Not some rogue corporation or banking cartel.
Not some flaw of human nature and not some secret cabal that controls the world.
It is the socioeconomic system itself at its very foundation.”
― Peter Joseph, The Zeitgeist Movement

a reply to: Cyruay

So, um...what's the plan batman?
Lots of flowery words and little suggestions.
Personally I'm overall happy with my current society so it's folk like me you need to convince if you want this change.

How exactly is your utopia achieved practically?
Sell it to me.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Your reward for either working or studying would be citizenship. Which would include housing and all amenities. As you advance your knowledge through schooling (another benefit of citizenship) and advance one's status through promotions in your desired career field. Luxury items will be awarded accordingly, with one's choice of brand and style. That way there is still competition amongst manufacturers. Removing the possibility of technological stagnation.

As an example if you score well on a test you are then awarded points for music, movies, books, comic books, gadgets, etc. You pass the year you get your choice of phone, gaming system, or some other large ticket item.

For work you are given choice of transportation, choice of housing, choice of foods. With weekly points rewards for entertainment and relaxation.


Capitalism has built us up to the point where this possible we just need to take the next evolutionary step.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

No, because people do not appreciate things if they have not earned them for themselves.

Man I must've been way off on your age because you're starting to sound like my grandpa now. You'd probably already be retired in my Utopia.

I'm basically giving everyone a massive loan right out of college, and I'm giving them the means to pay it back by providing them with part-time gainful employment that they can retire on at 50. Those who choose full-time work could retire in their 30's. Those who put people out of work could retire in their 20's.

Folks will still be earning their way, just without all the stress and worrying that we do now.

So I guess we are all in agreement, Dystopian Future is the only way.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: TerryDon79

Completely agreed, the UK benefits system is essentially a basic income system.

Mate of mine hasn't worked for years, he's happy.
Rent for 1 bedroom apartment paid in full, housing/council tax paid in full, £75 per week cash to spend on gas, electricity, food etc.
He doesn't drink or smoke and has a fantastic simple life which suits him.

Throw in free dentistry, health care and medicine from the NHS, free newspapers and Internet access at the municipal library, it's most definitely a basic life with all 'needs' met.

Is your friend disabled?

a reply to: Bone75

No he's just lazy, and pretends to apply for work as required by the rules of his jobseeker allowance.
It's quite easy to get benefits while doing nothing under the UK system.

originally posted by: Lysergic
So I guess we are all in agreement, Dystopian Future is the only way.

Not necessarily, just because utopia is not attainable doesn't mean the future has to be cruel to humans...... unless you think we are already living in a dystopian world.

originally posted by: conscientiousobserver
Capitalism has built us up to the point where this possible we just need to take the next evolutionary step.

Do you really think you can apply your utopian plan to the whole world? How much would have to be done before your plan could be implemented in some countries where 3/4 of the population don't even have indoor toilets?

originally posted by: Bone75
Man I must've been way off on your age because you're starting to sound like my grandpa now. You'd probably already be retired in my Utopia.

Ask your dear old gramps, or anyone else, if your overly altruistic, and frankly naïve, take on the world is accurate then why do people beat the s*** out of rental cars? Because they bought them on their own or because they are not theirs?

I'm basically giving everyone a massive loan right out of college, and I'm giving them the means to pay it back by providing them with part-time gainful employment that they can retire on at 50. Those who choose full-time work could retire in their 30's. Those who put people out of work could retire in their 20's.

Not everyone wants or needs a 'massive loan' right out of college. Your forced socialism is just that.

Folks will still be earning their way, just without all the stress and worrying that we do now.

What is any less stressful then the government compelling you to do something?

a reply to: Agartha

It wouldn't happen overnight of course. The countries would have to first build themselves up through capitalism. Then evolve towards a more socialistic society. poor countries that can't make it through capitalism will have manufacturing moved there. If that is not feasible then those countries should be assimilated into the surrounding countries. Until the whole area is sustainable. Once we start living off earth en masse, It will make things much easier

As our physical evolution comes to an end. We must evolve our ideologies and politics in order to survive. Our current system is stagnating and only benefits the wealthy. Which is slowly sinking us into an idiocracy and will only lead to our downfall.