To everyone who did not vote for Trump.....

originally posted by: UKTruth

Expect to be challenged if lies are perpetuated.

Absolutely no issue from me there, as long as the "challenging" is done in a civil and courteous way - from both sides.

No good will ever come from just screaming at each other and throwing insults.

a reply to: digital01anarchy

You are aware one of them was going to get picked right? Bashing trump supporters in antediluvian threads isnt going to make people believe your not biased to one political party and creating threads to attack trump supporters like you have will also make you seem bias like you have.

You innocent you.

a reply to: digital01anarchy

originally posted by: digital01anarchy
Kurthall likes taking it like a MAN! Thats why hes voting democrat lol because he likea to taka it alot.
Secretly i think all democrats are masochist it would be easier to spot them voting if they wore their gimp masks and body suits! Dems: "o man i hope they screw up the economy im getting so hot right now"!

I bet they have fantasies about a dominatrix hillary whiping them like slaves telling them they are racist, sexist while telling them to take it like a man!

Lol. Nobody owes anyone anything. This is the crux of the problem. Donald Trump winning the election makes Donald Trump our President it doesn't make self-righteous hypocrites entitled to relaliation. News flash to the authoritarian horde: there won't be any purge here.

The election is over. I'd like to see a scaling back of the hositility but if I can't post outside of the mud pit, then I will just go back to posting in it. And I will post in it. And I will post in it. And I will post in it. And I will post in it.

I'm all for being gracious and not holding grudges and civil discourse in the appropriate forums and that's what I'd prefer but I'm not getting pushed around.

a reply to: muzzleflash

You could argue that this era started when Bush was in power. Or when people first started using the word "Murica" instead of learning how to speak their own language correctly, or name their nation without urinating on it first. It is characterised by the rise of a quiet right, the failure of the left to engage with and debate the positions held by the slowly degenerating right, and by the socio-economic circumstances which set the last twenty to thirty years apart from most of the rest of history, both in America, and globally. You could also say that it is characterised most clearly, by being an age in which our technological capacity to communicate has been at its highest ever ebb, while our intellectual capacity to engage in debate has been at its lowest, a series of paradoxes stacked up on top of one another.

And as for your suggestion about the denial of ignorance being a thing which is always important, I agree with you. However, it simply did not matter a damn that people were ignorant in the stone age or the dark ages, because they were living lives of relative simplicity. You need food? Well get a bow and hunt something then, because there is next to no law preventing a man killing a beast and eating it, and no shortage of beasts to eat either. You need water? There is a stream nearby. What other needs have you? None, you are sorted. Get you a partner, maybe some kids, things might get a little messy and scary when the babies come, but you get used to that stuff pretty damned quickly when you have to. All very simple, not at all complicated, and neither is farming small scale. Its a cake walk, and you can do it without taking any notes, or keeping any logs, or even having a good memory, and do it well. You just need mud, and there was plenty of it. Take your brain out job, no hassle, not hard on the mind at all. The body, well sure, but thats neither here nor there. The mind? Barely exercised by the issues pertaining to the day in that period. Politics back then? Someone does something shady, you put them on a pike out front of their castle, as a warning to the next idiot who wants to take liberties.

But this period is not that period. Things are not plentiful, everything is forty million times more complicated than it has to be, from getting clothing on your back to getting somewhere to live, or even getting the paperwork right so that the money you earned by working your nuts off, does not represent a clear and present danger to your liberty, and controlling ones government? Give me a break!

This era is defined by complexities inserted into the lives of people living in it, by ideas which were alleged to make life easier not harder, simpler not more complex, and by the rise and rise of ignorance throughout the period, until we get to this day, this horrible, disgusting insult to freedom, liberty and justice, this almighty clusterbang that will, without a doubt, destroy peoples ability to feel any community at all with their fellow human beings, set social progress back thirty or forty years, destroy the validity and rigidity of the constitution of the United States, and snuff out a beacon that was already guttering out under the weight of hypocrisy.

A nation preaching peace and selling war for decades, finally showing the true colours of the worst it has to offer, shouting down its best and most noble, so that the least of them, the most villainous, wretched and gutter minded can have their precious day in the sun.

It is ABSOLUTELY vital that THIS is opposed, because we are living in more complicated and dangerous times, and people are living so close together, with such little space and time to actually reflect on the reality before them, that lashing out and violence are more common than meditation and cogitation, despite the fact that we have computers and machines doing a great deal of the work that is to be done out there, for us. This is a powder keg, and must NOT be touched off and that is why denying ignorance is more important now than it was in the stone age. Individuals being thick in the stone age hurt a relative few. One person being exceptionally thick today, could cause anguish and death to thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions depending on the scenario. Insisting on good sense therefore, denying ignorance is absolutely vital in a way that it simply was not back in the day.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Whereismypassword

Got it, so they're whining for not getting their way. In the streets. Breaking stuff. Having men and women work overtime. Putting their lives in danger so they can act like brats. On their tax dollar. In a blue state.

Good times.

I don't agree with violent protest but they do have the right to peacefully protest

originally posted by: digital01anarchy

I honestly hope someday you will at lest understand why people voted for him and help the dems get back on track.

You know, nobody has actually bothered to ask me whether I have an understanding of why people voted for Trump. I absolutely do understand the motivations behind it - to 'stick it to the man', to put a wedge into the "status quo" and to wrest back control of your government from the 'elites'. Not only do I understand this, but I absolutely support that! I just do not believe that Trump is the man to do that. I think he will create more problems than he solves.

I could be wrong about this, and I hope for the sake of not only America, but the world, that I am wrong. I just have a terrible feeling I am not - and that the 'people' won't have another chance to affect real change.

Our priorities should be on reducing debt and creating a future for our youth through making jobs and creating better trade deals not endless wars and protecting corprate interests.

I am 100% on your side there mate.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

As am I. However in Portland Oregon, they are not seeing the peace.

An apology to all the haters we've had to endure over the last year.

a reply to: Konduit

Once again, thankyou for your opinion.

It's always great to hear a wide variety of opinions from different walks of life.

a reply to: TrueBrit

And again your argument is based upon the very ignorance you ask me to deny as vitally as I possibly can.

You are claiming that life back then was less complicated, but I strongly disagree, life has always been incredibly complicated and it was personal circumstance that determined exactly how complicated it really was.

Just for example the ancient Greek language, or Hindu religious rituals, or the laws of the Bible and the strictness of them and their harsh penalties, etc. Learning to hunt reliably is not simple, it's incredibly complicated when you have primitive tools, it's still hard though less so with modern implements.

And certain individuals had a more complicated life than others, for example a pampered royal that just sat around eating grapes in their harem likely had far less complications than the average worker citizen or slave that had to be mindful of everything around them in fear of punishment.

And the claim that:
"Individuals being thick in the stone age hurt a relative few. One person being exceptionally thick today, could cause anguish and death to thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions depending on the scenario."
is ignoring the fact that the individual in the stone age lived in a population that was so small that he probably knew a third of the humans himself (considering we are going really really far back into the earlier ages of humanity), so a mistake like convincing everyone to kill each other could have led to the destruction of the human race back then just as it is now.
Or look at how ignorance about plagues nearly eradicated civilization like in the Bubonic Plague period.

And besides, in the modern era in terms of nuclear war just one person's ignorance can't typically lead to a nuclear war. Tons of people have to be ignorant together just to launch one nuke. One guy alone simply cannot manage it.

And how does my ignorance or your ignorance even matter? We don't have a direct enough of an impact on the guys with the nuclear codes to influence them against launching nukes if that was their decision. It seems like I could theoretically just sit around and play video games all day, getting a govt check, doing nearly nothing - and the same outcome will materialize regardless of my ignorance level.

I just am not buying it, it seems completely arbitrary to think denying ignorance is more important now or then or whenever. And in fact, I'm starting to think that denying ignorance may not even be important after all. That allowing ignorance and just ignoring the entire subject might be just as valid a path forward as the narrow-minded view that we should bother wasting our time denying something that we may not really even have any way to defeat anyways - ignorance.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: digital01anarchy

I honestly hope someday you will at lest understand why people voted for him and help the dems get back on track.

You know, nobody has actually bothered to ask me whether I have an understanding of why people voted for Trump. I absolutely do understand the motivations behind it - to 'stick it to the man', to put a wedge into the "status quo" and to wrest back control of your government from the 'elites'. Not only do I understand this, but I absolutely support that! I just do not believe that Trump is the man to do that. I think he will create more problems than he solves.

I could be wrong about this, and I hope for the sake of not only America, but the world, that I am wrong. I just have a terrible feeling I am not - and that the 'people' won't have another chance to affect real change.

Our priorities should be on reducing debt and creating a future for our youth through making jobs and creating better trade deals not endless wars and protecting corprate interests.

I am 100% on your side there mate.

In part it was to "stick it to the man", but actually only a small part in my view. If it was mainly that, then Republicans would have shifted to Bernie Sanders.

The main reasons Trump won were related to trade deals, job creation and immigration, according to what they say. I do think that there was also a major undercurrent of voting against the PC culture that has so stifled the entire West over the last decade. I think, happily, we're going to see an end to the 'ism and 'ist sticks.

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: frenchfries

Trumps like ability is going to go through the roof as he implements his agenda. he is going to make Reagan look boring and slow.

Please let it not be "like Regan".

By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."

from p. 184,Sleep-Walking Through History: America in the Reagan Years, by Haynes Johnson, (1991, Doubleday)

a reply to: muzzleflash

...

Given that the entire election that we have just witnessed, was a text book demonstration of what happens when people collectively fail to deny ignorance, I honestly cannot believe you are suggesting that it might be wise to forget that battle entirely.

That might just be an option for those who have expensive and well put together fallout shelters beneath their property, or those who really do not mind living in chaos, with a higher than normal probability of dying pointlessly to nothing but thuggery, but for most people, for people who want something worth saving to come out at the end of all of this, embracing intellect and knowledge is vital.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Yes, I have finally determined that not only is it unnecessary and unimportant to even bother denying ignorance, but there is no dire nature involved in it at all. In fact, we are probably all better off just embracing ignorance and relishing in it.

Life is really short and we spend all our time arguing and bickering over each other thinking we can somehow convince our opponent to change their position, and even though perhaps a few % of the time we actually do convince them, it's still meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Whatever happens is going to happen largely irrespective of our personal ignorance levels, especially in terms of politics. And look at how we actually accomplish nothing with all the bluster and fluff.

Yes, ignorance is Bliss and if we wanted to live a truly fulfilling life, we'd let it all go and just go indulge ourselves while we have a chance largely because our attempts to deny ignorance are so ineffective and inconsequential.

So not only does it appear that it's not 'more vital' to deny ignorance, but that it in fact may not be vital at all and could even be detrimental to our happiness and lives overall.

Look at how far I got denying your ignorance. I got no where, in fact I became so cynical that I don't even see the point anymore. I became the monster I was opposing...

Denying the denial of ignorance may in fact be more vital than ever.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: digital01anarchy

You are aware one of them was going to get picked right? Bashing trump supporters in antediluvian threads isnt going to make people believe your not biased to one political party and creating threads to attack trump supporters like you have will also make you seem bias like you have.

You innocent you.

a reply to: digital01anarchy

originally posted by: digital01anarchy
Kurthall likes taking it like a MAN! Thats why hes voting democrat lol because he likea to taka it alot.
Secretly i think all democrats are masochist it would be easier to spot them voting if they wore their gimp masks and body suits! Dems: "o man i hope they screw up the economy im getting so hot right now"!

I bet they have fantasies about a dominatrix hillary whiping them like slaves telling them they are racist, sexist while telling them to take it like a man!

Lol. Nobody owes anyone anything. This is the crux of the problem. Donald Trump winning the election makes Donald Trump our President it doesn't make self-righteous hypocrites entitled to relaliation
. News flash to the authoritarian horde: there won't be any purge here.

The election is over. I'd like to see a scaling back of the hositility but if I can't post outside of the mud pit, then I will just go back to posting in it. And I will post in it. And I will post in it. And I will post in it. And I will post in it.

I'm all for being gracious and not holding grudges and civil discourse in the appropriate forums and that's what I'd prefer but I'm not getting pushed around.

Yeah your back i knew it wouldn't last long.

I dish out maximum salt if i have too and did even before he was elected. I like how you went into my posts and pulled out that one without context. Which is hilariously on display because it was about accepting the results of the election. The poster was saying trump should take it like a man if he lost and accept who the people vote for. Not only did all the people who parroted that statement lie some of them cannot accept it that hillary lost hypocrites indeed.

Hence I will dish out salt if i have too.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: muzzleflash

...

Given that the entire election that we have just witnessed, was a text book demonstration of what happens when people collectively fail to deny ignorance, I honestly cannot believe you are suggesting that it might be wise to forget that battle entirely.

That might just be an option for those who have expensive and well put together fallout shelters beneath their property, or those who really do not mind living in chaos, with a higher than normal probability of dying pointlessly to nothing but thuggery, but for most people, for people who want something worth saving to come out at the end of all of this, embracing intellect and knowledge is vital.

Nah it's not vital at all.

We all die someday. Living in a fallout shelter is silly, it's meaningless.
We should live it up right now as best as we can and who cares about the world, it's all an illusion to make us worry over nothing anyways.

If we're gonna die we're gonna die. Can't change that.
People put way too much value and emphasis on life. Look at how these people go sit at the hospital for months on end demanding and begging the Drs to save their 95yr old grandparent, willing to rack up bills of 500,000$ +++

This is all insanity I say. Life has no meaning without quality, and "denying ignorance" seems to degrade the quality far more often than it improves it. And anytime we think we improve it most of those times it ends up still degrading it years down the line anyways.

What's the point to life anyways? Pleasure? Enjoying family? Women and sex? Arguing petty things with people on ATS? Telling ourselves delusional things to pat ourselves on the back thinking we are super important and other fantasies?

At best, denying ignorance is highly overrated. At worst, it's completely unnecessary, especially in this day and age when everyone can think for me and I can just go play around all day care free.

Just a gentle reminder to all to please keep it civil

a reply to: muzzleflash

Then what are you doing here, exactly?

You see, I can tell you specifically what I am trying to accomplish. I know wherefore I am bound, and to what principles I hold. I know that people of good conscience and sound moral are all that stands between innocent people and darkness, villainy and corruption, that no matter how small the stand, that it is made at all is the only virtue that is required to validate it. I know that liberty is more important than life, that without it, life has no value and would be better ended outright, than continued in shackles. I know that people of good heart, who treat all as brothers and according to their individual merit, are the ones who ensure there is a future to look forward to, rather than a dystopia to avoid with every sinew and fibre of the being.

I know this because history bears it out, because even now it is people of that sort who hold shadow at bay all over the world, and I also know this. For any one of us to relent for even a moment is to ensure the death of freedom and liberty, not just as matters of law, but matters of aspiration. If we cannot even aspire to that which we are told we have, but are denied in the same breath, then we are lost.

These things ARE more important than money, jobs, economy, security, they are more important than ALL concepts, because without them there is not the freedom to conceptualise anything but despair, and that must NEVER come to pass.

If you are not prepared to stand for these things, oppose all who stand against them, no matter the motivating force behind their actions, no matter the understandable frustrations that might inform some of their dogma, then what are you doing here, exactly? What is your purpose in thinking at all? I know what drives me. My ancestors demand of me the respect I owe and provide them by preventing darkness from consuming all that I know, by continuing to shine light into the darkest corners, by refusing to accept programing which defeats liberty, justice and freedom. My child requires me to insist that his future is brighter, ever brighter than my own, and when I die, it will fall to him to keep shadow at bay in his every word, and thought and deed.

What is your purpose in thinking thoughts beyond your immediate reach? What is your purpose here, in this arena, if you cannot stand by these principles, if you cannot turn your mind toward the opposition of division, toward the unification of this species against those who manipulate it against its better interest?

Which side is full of hate?

Shock Video: Black Mob Viciously Beats White Trump Voter

a reply to: Steak

And people who protested outside Trump rallies, even the ones who were not paid shills, also got beaten up. I would like to know what your point is?

And by the way, the side which is MOST aligned to hate, is the one which has the most KKK members, White Power goons, and Neo Nazis in it, just so you know.

originally posted by: Kettu
I truly believe the violence would be worse if Hillary would have won.

I, for one, was actually terrified of the days/weeks after a potential Hillary win. I regularly try and read things that 100% disagree with myself. I hunt for backwater blogs and social media accounts that diametrically oppose my own feelings. The things I was seeing posted/written about a possible Trump loss were frightening.

eh?...

All we have seen so far in all this time is masses and masses of liberals enacting violence upon others strictly based on their political views but you were scared of trump supporters who had been a constant victim of this. That is....interesting.