Conservatives Should Condemn Trump over Sexuality to Make America Great Again

a reply to: SargonThrall

yeah, they all tend to care about the average American until they get elected, that's the problem, and I see no difference with these two once they get in.

Very well written, couldn´t agree more (sadly).

a reply to: abe froman

Republicans= write in Ron Paul.
Democrats= write in Bernie Sanders.

Let's just go ahead and have the election we really want on our own.

It's too bad we can't force both Hillary and Trump to step down from running and have these two as our choices. That would be one hell of an election! In the end, I probably wouldn't care who would win.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
First of all I am not supporting Clinton, I am a realist and a conservative leaning Constitutionalist.

Hear me out!!

This is both a calculated attack on misogyny and on misandry, and a frontal assault on our social sexuality concepts in the Western World.

As we've now seen, Trump is revealed to be "a typical guy" as his defenders say, in that he treats women as empty objects to be "used" for sexual gratification. Exactly like Bill Clinton, another "normal guy", promiscuous, condescending, and deceptive in pursuit of his gratification. Abusers.

I am choosing to attack Trump on this very critically because of several political and personal reasons as a Long Term Conservative Strategy. As I see it, any person Truly concerned with the current erosion of our national outlook will have to eventually agree to some degree. I will take an extreme position.

Man. Trump says something (back when he was a Democrat ) and everyone explodes.

Hillary enables a sexual predator and nobody bats an eyelash, presumably because it happened so long ago. Seems like a double standard here.

a reply to: gunshooter

You are going to use sex offenders as your baseline here?

Your sexuality does not create who you are. Or by all means show me the research and not anecdotal evidence.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

Except people have been losing thier minds about bill and hillary this entire election...
Easy to create a double standard when you willfully ignore one side.

originally posted by: carewemust
So all this boils down to the obvious. Donald Trump is in the wrong party.

Exactly.

a reply to: diggindirt

Johnson appears to be a far more reasonable choice.

I wonder if the puppeteers running our political machine made a bet:

"I bet we can offer them two horrid choices and they'll STILL refuse to vote 3rd party!"

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: muzzleflash

Man you are putting a lot of eggs in the basket of sexuality and then using lots of generalizations to categorize it.


Half the stuff on the lists have nothing to do with your sexuality.

All of it has to do with sexuality.

Pinpoint some, explain why you think it doesn't and I'll debate with you.

Otherwise your unsubstantiated claim remains unfounded and without merit.

originally posted by: abe froman
Republicans= write in Ron Paul.

Democrats= write in Bernie Sanders.

Let's just go ahead and have the election we really want on our own.

I Love you.
Go Ron Paul!!

originally posted by: ColCurious
a reply to: muzzleflash

originally posted by: muzzleflash
I am a realist and a conservative leaning Constitutionalist.

I was hoping you'd still exist, and wondering how long it would take until the right in the U.S. realizes that Conservatism (as a whole) is under attack. Trump running for the right-wing - with conservative support - just boggles my mind.

If I may ask... how many of you are there?

Yes conservatism is exceptionally rare and completely misunderstood.

There are very few conservatives left, and even fewerare Constitutionalists.

But with someone who can articulate issues sufficiently and debate them successfully in a reasonable manner - a comeback is very possible.

originally posted by: Freija
Politics aside, your attitudes toward women are quite revealing and somewhat disturbing but then again, I've not come to expect much different from most of your gender or those that consider themselves to be of the typically "conservative" or faith-based mindset.

[snipped]

What are my attitudes towards women??

That they should have self esteem without having to sexualized themselves publicly?

That self respect and having others respect you is far more admirable than spending hours everyday trying to look attractive and sexy?

That the media uses women's sexuality for profit?

That women are worth far more than a cheap thrill?

Treating women like sextoys is the essence of misogynistic mentality.

Tell me exactly why I'm wrong here. Be detailed and express yourself. I feel like you denigrate women and then guise it under some sort of false labeling system, but Im not sure yet, your post is awfully ambiguous.

originally posted by: Freija
uote]

I also find your categorization and labeling of these behaviors and attributes as "liberal" to be specious, unnecessarily politicized and out of touch with realities beyond your own moralistic and holier than thou self. I consider myself socially progressive but otherwise politically moderate and promote none of these things you listed other than maybe number 7 as I believe atheism rather than false notions of indoctrinated spirituality or morality is actually a much more of a true spiritual and genuinely authentic. path.

I'll also add that "sexuality" and all these points you listed transcends your imagined left/right paradigm and your whole argument misses the mark. It is pretty clear where you stand though.

I'm not holier than thou, I'm revealing a loophole and short circuiting the mainstream belief system. For good reason (to teach and remind people about the real issues).

If you do not agree with the main "Liberal sexuality" points I listed than you are inherently CONSERVATIVE on Sexual issues.

By being a Constitutionalist you can at the same time:
1) Respect a families reproduction rights
(child bearing issues like abortion, anticontraceptive, artificial insemination, whatever their choice is)

2) Respect a person's right to market themselves as a product or service

You see, a Constitutionalist can disagree with or even condemn a behavior while promoting the concept of Protecting legal rights to participate in behaviors they find distasteful or lewd.

Atheism is the absence of any Spiritual beliefs, it is a science based dogmatic system that doesn't even appreciate many deeper scientific Truths.

I personally deplore modern Religion because I can argue it is ignorant, ritualistic, dogmatic, has a very poor philosophy, and is narrow minded and largely false.

That doesn't make me Atheist or even Agnostic. After education settles in you inevitably realize God is a verifiable reality, considering you Define the word God properly. Hardly anyone even knows what that word actually means, as mainstream unsubstantiated belief systems based on ignorance and denial purposely skew and twist that word into narrow constraints.

This topic of sexuality is NOT left vs right, it's a very practical and objective conservative vs liberal discussion.

Conservative = Conserves
Liberal = Does not conserve

It's clear to me you espouse an unfounded ignorance based on what others told you they think and your reaction. You need to step out of the box and think independently of what others misconceptions are.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Why condemn one person, Americas problems is no the comment or behavior of one person, is the fact that Americans are one of the top nations in the world after the middle east that sexuality is a big tabu and most Americans are sexually deprived.

Thanks the religious right for that one.

Our nations family structure is not collapsing because of sexual behaviors is because Americans love sex but can not find a way to talk about it and think that enjoying it is sinful.

a reply to: muzzleflash

A 'liberal' sexuality doesn't promote what you says it does. Neither does a 'conservative' promote what you say it does. People who both points of view will have parts of each.

Sounds like you just want to make sexuality a political point when that is hardly the case.

I don't care to debate this with you.

If you are promiscuous, you are an object and implicitly agree with Trump and Bill's mentality: people are objects or resources that exist to be used for your gratification and you exist for theirs. This by default means you are not dignified because that implies Trump and Bill treat women just fine and we accept it as not being "lewd" at all. See the logic here?

This is all I need to read, there is no logic here. Only you judging someone that has a different outlook on sex than you do.
And getting to that point with your own false equivalencies.

Atheism is the absence of any Spiritual beliefs, it is a science based dogmatic system that doesn't even appreciate many deeper scientific Truths.

Oh boy, ya man you just know it all!
There is no Truth in science, just the best explanation at the time.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: muzzleflash

The only one against the law is 6. I happen to know family value conservatives break laws against depravity as much as anyone else.

Trump is a boy and not a wise man for his age. Sex is about conquests to boast about to other men.

It doesn't matter if hypocrites go against their word.

What matters is that you do not base your own judgements off of whether or not everyone else is a hypocrite.

Let's say I go and buy some prostitutes tonight, slap em around and treat them terribly, then come boast about it tomorrow...

Does that mean suddenly what I did was right because I hypocritically went against today's lecture?

No, it just means I'm a complete hypocrite lacking self control and I need to grow up.

You shouldn't base your ideological views or disposition on what I say or do. Instead base it on what you know is right and what you want in life.

Ignore everyone else.

If I preach theft and violence is wrong now, then turn around and commit it, does that mean we should all consider stealing and hurting others too? Of course not.

originally posted by: Substracto
What you describe as general liberal behavior is also adopted by conservatives, you put it like conservatives are saints, they are not, actually repressing stuff makes you do more degenerate things in the future, just saying.

Incorrect.

What people do, or how hypocritical they are, does NOT alter the original ideological position.

Read my post just before this one.

Repression does not automatically lead to commission of the repressed act.

I repress my natural instinct to urinate wherever I'm at when the urge develops. Does that mean soon I'll pee everywhere? No. I will still find a toilet.

I repress my desire to scream and yell, or sometimes, slap people. Does that mean soon I'll be a violent maniac? No.

Repression of negative instincts is a necessity and a major component of civilization. It does not infer we will soon degrade into complete merciless anarchy.

a reply to: SargonThrall

Sexual promiscuity and the mentality associated with it does not necessarily lead to broken homes, stds, lawsuits, degradation, etc.

But it certainly increases the likelihood and potential development of those issues.

Because some wealthy people treat sex as X or Y doesn't mean you should say "well he does it, therefore I should too", you ought to base your position on reasoning and logical analysis you have, not on excuses derived from others failures.

Just because life is centered on reproduction doesn't mean we should give into our bases desires and screw everyone. In fact, since human children take so long to mature and need to be taught so many complex ideas to survive happily, monogamy would be the natural inclination of the human species. There are some exceptions but they aren't very relevant in terms of the current American paradigm.

originally posted by: gunshooter

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: muzzleflash

Man you are putting a lot of eggs in the basket of sexuality and then using lots of generalizations to categorize it.


Half the stuff on the lists have nothing to do with your sexuality.

pick up a book and research something. I used to work in community corrections and have attended some of the sex offender meetings that clients have had to attend, and let me tell you. Sexuality has a lot more to do with everyday life than you can even imagine.

You are on the money here.

The fascinating predicament is that they'll call us sheltered when in reality we have been in the thick of America's screwed up system and have seen first hand what's going on and exactly what types of situations people get themselves into.

Sexuality is part of everyone's life to some extent or another, and it is a driving motivational force that colors our decision making process, how we treat others, etc.

Thanks for speaking up.

Whew boy, but you've opened a whole case of worms, haven't you?

Let's see

You could drag humankind almost anywhere by manipulating the enormous energies of procreation. You could goad humans into actions they would never have believed possible. One of his teachers had said it directly: "This energy must have an outlet. Bottle it up and it becomes monstrously dangerous. Redirect it and it will sweep over anything in its path. This is an ultimate secret of all religions."

-Frank Herbert
Heretics of Dune

Religions are manufactured control systems used to, as the above excerpt indicates, redirect enormous species-wide urges; the urge and need to reproduce one's kind.

It's been treated crudely and as muzzleflash states, marketed as a product. This being the case that product can then be repackaged and re-imaged until the content scarcely resembles it's outward appearance.

This energy has been commoditized so that it can then be used as those who understand these deeper meanings see fit.