We Stopped Beleiving In Witches, When's The Bibles Turn?

Originally posted by kinglizard
One request though. Can we argue later on today?

LOL..Yeah...by the time I deal with all the crazies at work that have pets and shouldn't...I'll be more than up to it later I'm sure....they all come out on Saturdays for some reason...

LadyV i dont think you should take offence to what he states about witches, he was never trying to say that withces were stuiped of any sort, he was just trying to use a example of something. Witches in the medevil ages as you know were quiet common, and most of the population believed in the existence of witches, compared to modern society there are much less people who believe in the occult.
The main part of this thread is trying to say that religion is out dated, and that it is not needed in todays modern society, the same as witch hunts are not needed in todays society.

Originally posted by wang
and most of the population believed in the existence of witches, compared to modern society there are much less people who believe in the occult.

I disagree here. More and more people are learning that the occult is not negative, it just "is"...and therefore more and more people are learning.....the majority of your Christians also believe in the occult but they see it one sided as negative because they don't see the whole picture......The occult, which by the way simply means "hidden" is pretty much believed by the majority in today's society....it's just divided as to how one views it.

LadyV, first off i would like to say that i find it offensive that you say "your christians" when i am not christian at all, and do not surpport any christian belief or agenda.
Secondly, yes people are accepting the occult as what it is, and yes occult does mean "hidden" but in todays society many people are to mondernized and worried about getting a new plasma screen tv than studying crowleys equinox. Yes christians do view the occult as negative, but of course this is just ignorant dogma which they have been forced to belief.
What i was trying to point out is that withces in todays society are not being hunted down, they are left alone to do as they will. There is not a huge surrport for or agaisnt witches.
Please i know u can argue agaisnt me again, but try to see the real topic at hand. Religion is outdated, and is obsolete in todays society.

WHY is it outdated??? Because YOU don't agree with it?? Faith can give incredible comfort in times of trouble. It can give a reason to live well and do good.

I would say the majority of the people on earth have religion of one kind or the other. To say it is outdated and obsolete is very egocentric. If it does nothing for you, do not have any. Do not try and say that for ALL it is wrong and not worth having.

I say that it deceives people into deluding themselves into thinking they know the truth without searching for it themselfs. I would be more than satisfied to deal with religious fanatics, if my theory as posted befor was implemented.
I am saying it is not needed in todays society, because it isnt. We have our own set of moral values, which is the only thing any religion has ever giving us, other than religious wars and mass ignorance. Religion has impaired the human mind into thinking up of new things, example of this is that if we believed in christian dogma that adam and eve were the first humans that ever existed (while to be 100 percent correct it was adam and lilith) then we would know nothing of dinosaurs. Dinosaurs would be unimangable, since there was nothing befor adam and eve. As stated befor christian dogma use to teach the the stars were haning off of a dome that was the sky, if this belief was never question we would have very little astronomy in todays soceity.
What im trying to get at is that religon may of done one good thing for us, and thats contorling the masses into having a moral set of codes, but now we know the difference between right and wrong doing i the world, and that hanging onto religion is only restricting our minds to think of new evolutionary ideas. During the dark ages christianity burnt heaps and heaps of litreture from the anciet times, this caused us in losing alot of anciet knowledge, jsut to make sure that people didnt realise that god wasnt the only answer.
Religion will stick with us, and people who are not young that do believe in organised religion should ride their beliefs to their death, but i just dont want to see the same ignorance take a hold of our next generation.

What you see as ignorance many others see as knowledge. I see a real and concrete place for religion. I certainly will not abandon my beliefs because others see them as unnecessary. I do not believe I stick my head in the sand and do not search for knowledge. I do believe there are things that really don't need an answer(and many that do)

We are certainly not above the ten commandments(for anyone, they are a good set of life rules! No matter what you believe) OBVIOUSLY we do not know right from wrong. Ever watch the news?? Murders, war, cruelty and abuse are rampant.

Could you imagine if all followed the goldern rule?? Do unto others as you would have done to you? There is the solution to war and every other evil right there!

We are not that advanced. We have not grown above religion. I think most religions do have a set of codes very similar to the 10 commandments and the golden rule

It will stop when there isnt a need for it any longer.

The golden rule as u may call it.....so what happens if im a masicist, i will do unto others as i want for myself? Big loop hole in that rule.
Plus im not telling u to give up your beliefs, my main point to all of this is that in our next generation it is wrong to force them to believe in religion.
Would you disagree with giving people a choice to believe?
By the way yes every religion has the same sort of rules as the ten commandments, and in todays society we have legal systems which judge right and wrong. We have much more than 10 commandments.
If people just said to themselves, "i will not hurt another, i will not decieve another, i will not steal from another" then we have a moral society, which a god is not needed. Then as humankind we could ALL under one belief (that of the scientific method) could aim for betterment for our species. Religion has seperetad our species for thousands of years.
The misconception you have about me is that you think im evil, and im trying to take away something that people love so dearly. When acturly im trying to take away the delusion people have, and open their eyes to not thinking on one line.
It is good that you search for knowledge, and i salute you for that as knowledge is that greatest gift we have. We ate from the true of knowledge, god wasnt happy about that....he casted us out of eden for it. Doesnt that say that god is agiasnt us for having knowledge?

I do not think YOU are evil, I do think there is alot of evil in the world. Hence the murders, abuse, violence.

No one is FORCED to have religion. A child might be forced to go to church, or participate in ceremonies, but he always has the CHOICE to not believe.

In all honesty, I have been around very few truly bad people. A friend of a friend owns a carpet cleaning business. Really nice guy. He grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and he said he knew alot of truly mean people. Truly evil. I have lived a fairly sheltered life and I have met very few. I can think of a few instances, but very few.

I see a place for having faith and having religion. Probably because I believe in it. I do not believe that anyone can be FORCED to have a religion. We all have the choice. I fear having that choice taken away. I fear having ANY religion persecuted. I will always believe my belief sets are the correct ones(if I didn't, how could one say I believed?) but I will not ever be for taking away someones right to believe as they will

As stated in a post befor i believe that people should believe in what ever they want. I agree with you on that.
Although yes people are forced into religions, a childs mind is like a sponge and is very open to suggestion, if u tell a child enough times that a certain belief is true he will believe its ture even over common sense. This impression can last a life time. Then you have the pressure of piers and families beliefs, which also influence your beliefs.
I do not want to take anyones beliefs away, i just want every person have the same equal freedom to believe in any religion. As to say insted of just giving kids a bible, why not give them some works of crowley, or lao tzu, or buddha? If every person had this equal right to be able to access one text just as much as another, then i will have no problem with religion at all.
Yes u do not have to believe, but most do....this is what mind contorl is, you get the majority of people, you never get them all.

Why would I teach my children ALL things are right, yet I only believe one way is right?? That is very contradictory. If I believe something, I want to raise my children in the best way I see fit. Including giving them spiritual knowledge.

I don't hand my children a bible and "here, read this and believe all!" I read to them, they ask questions. I answer.

If a wiccan believes deeply in their faith, they will do the same as I.

It is when you teach your children that others are stupid, or to hate others with different beliefs. My children go to Montessori school. It is secular. They celebrate and learn about Ramadan, the Jewish high holy days, Christmas, Hannukha(sp?) ect; They are taught to respect other's beliefs. To respect others PERIOD. Although what we teach in our home is Christian teachings(Just like the Islamic households, hindu households, Jewish ect; )

I teach my children what I feel is RIGHT. That is my JOB as a parent.

[edit on 1/22/2005 by llpoolej]

Originally posted by _BLiND_
I didn't mean wicca, as in the religion. I meant witches, the thought in my head was of the Salem Witch Hunt. We stopped beleiving in those pointed hatted, black cat totting witches.

Beleiving in witches and finding it false, is the same as the bible. Just an old story made up in an attempt to have a reason for everything.

who says that there can only be 1 anomoly, I did say "atleast". The norm being gas giants or frozen rocks. Maybe anomoly is the wrong word...

The bible is a good moral compass....but nothing more. Watch "barney & friends" a few times, and there is your moral compass. I do not beleive Jesus existed, he is a "king arthur" character to me. If it is said and repeated enough times eventually the masses will beleive it to be fact.

Actually the pointed hat steriotype came from a true practice. The point of the hat represented a connection to the Diety being worshipped.

The black cat steriotype also came from a true practice. They are called familiars. A familiar is basically an animal that a witch has made a spiritual connection with. Basically, it's a witches friend.

Maybe you should research more about what you truly don't understand. No offence.

So if i was a sadistic, and i thought my beliefs were right, should i teach my children my beliefs as if they were the right ones? Am i doing my JOB as a parent?

Originally posted by wang
As stated in a post befor i believe that people should believe in what ever they want. I agree with you on that.
Although yes people are forced into religions, a childs mind is like a sponge and is very open to suggestion, if u tell a child enough times that a certain belief is true he will believe its ture even over common sense. This impression can last a life time.

No one is forced to believe anything. I was raised as a quite strict Pentacostal Christian. However, I was always taught to question everything. Well, my parents weren't too happy about when I questioned my religion but they pretty much let me do it. When, one day, I anounced that I was not a Christian they were a bit more than upset. However, I explained to them why I could no longer be a Christian and they understood (they still were not happy but at least they understood my reasons).

Even in schools childeren are taught to ask why. There are influences in childrens lives but they only last as long as they are left unquestioned and evaluated. This is where our society needs to focus more on helping other's find themselves rather that focusing on a new car.

Originally posted by wang
We ate from the tree of knowledge, god wasnt happy about that....he casted us out of eden for it. Doesnt that say that god is agiasnt us for having knowledge?

It wasn’t the “tree of knowledge”, it was the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”. There is a big difference here. Also in Hebrew the word for "knowledge" also means "knowing," and the entire phrase may be translated as "knowing how to distinguish good from bad". God didn’t want to prevent us from having knowledge or information. God wanted to prevent them from knowing evil. You could ask why the tree had knowledge of good and evil rather than just evil, to me the answer is simple. You cannot know good without knowing evil and you cannot know evil without knowing good. They are linked, you know Yin-Yang. So why did God allow this tree in the garden if he didn’t want them to eat of its fruit? Because God didn’t want prisoners. If God didn’t allow the tree they would have no choice they would be prisoners without freewill.

Genesis 2:9

And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

People DO teach sadistic thing to their children. Think about Satanists. They DO believe they are right and do teach their children their beliefs. Do *I* think they are correct? No.

I am not teaching my children sadistic things. I am teaching them what I believe to be GOOD. That is my job as a parent. To shape my children into good citizens that make positive decisions for themselves and those around them

he was never trying to say that withces were stuiped of any sort, he was just trying to use a example of something.

i disagree. maybe you missed this.

There are still people that believe there are witches. Although they are kinda dumb.

Occult in the middle ages
anything that varied from the beliefs and tenets of the RCC was considered
occult and usually pronounced to be of the black arts and heretical. parctitioners of said arts were killed.
the lucky ones died quickly. others were tortured for long periods and/or died slow painful deaths.

What i was trying to point out is that withces in todays society are not being hunted down, they are left alone to do as they will.

actually you are wrong , thr prosecution and persecution is still very active today. ask any fundie like Jack Chick also here is a recent event.

Sarah and Nathan

Daniel11990912021391839

Witches was used an example. I am not saying that thee wiccan religion is outdated, just the beleif in flying witches / dragons / werewolves. I mean they were all created to either scare you, or to find a reason for something unsolvable by earlier man.

Responding to another post I read, I will never teach / read to my own children, (the bible), maybe the way I see fit to raise them actually isnt the best way. Why not let them age alittle before starting to choke them on the religion concept. Or I would put out a bunch of different bibles and read some from reach and let them choose.

But ... Wang You know what I am talking about.

The bible / religion is just an outdated scientific paper. No more then a theory.

[edit on 22-1-2005 by _BLiND_]

Wang humans were not the first thing that God created. Infact we are the last thing he created. Since we've only been around for what a couple hundred thousand years then I would say the bible got it right. When it sais let there be light I think that means the big bang. Sounds very similar.