We Stopped Beleiving In Witches, When's The Bibles Turn?

You cannot believe in God without believing in the Bible. The Bible is God's word.

In order to prove God(The Christian version) or Bible being true, you have to use some other tool. For example, if you were to prove that I was a lier, you would have to use testimonies other than mine.

It was given to man to write.

Again, you have to prove that.

Your thought processes are so scary.

Let me tell you something...a world where 99% of the population are God-fearing believers is an even scarier prospect...we should use logic, not emotions to run this world.

I can't comprehend how someone can be as arrogant as you and most of the people on here, to think you are sinless

I don't see anyone here saying 'I am sinless'.

and to not see that the breakdown in society

There is no breakdown in society. Society is much better now that what was, let's say, 150 years ago. For example, in America, one could take your life away with a gun without any problems. It was the era of the wild west.

What you are experiencing as a 'breakdown' is actually your own growing up. The fuzzyness of the world gets away as we grow older. Our mind expands, and we understand more and more each day that passes. Our experiences accumulate. We, as children, are innocent, but as we grow up, this child innocence is lost and gives its place to pragmatism.

Let's see some facts:

-50 years ago, you had to do everything by hand. Electricity was available, but many thing were not electrical.

-100 years ago, you couldn't vote if you were a woman or black. You did not have indoor plumbing, or heat. You did not go to vacations, and you took a bath once a month.

-200 years ago, you had no rights whatsoever, unless you owned land. You could be easily killed by anyone, even the law.

-300 years ago, your house was a wooden thing without plumbing, and you did your poo in the wilderness. You could be lucky if you took a bath once a year, and luckier if you lived by a lake.

-500 years ago, you would probably be a slave. You wouldn't wipe your ass when you did your poo because the toiler paper was not yet in our everyday life. You had to make your own clothes.

-1000 years ago, you would probably be a soldier, living your life within wars. Wars were everywhere in Europe, and plagues too. If you were a native American, you would be wiped out by Europeans before you could say 'crusade'.

-1500 years ago, if you weren't a shepard, you would be considered lucky. The rest is the same with previous cases.

-3000 years ago, you most probably lived on a tree. If you were part of an ancient civilization (Greece, Persia, Siria, India, Aigypt), you would be in constant wars.

You sit now confortambly on your nice confy house, with internal heating (and outside there is a blizzard and the temperature is well below freezing), with your sleepers on, being able to watch everything that goes on in the far side of the planet through the internet and cable/satellite TV, with fresh vegetables in your fridge and a whole stack of medicine in your bathroom for any case. You don't have to walk any more since you go anywhere with your SUV, you have a TV, stereo, video, digital camera, bicycle, two cars, a back yard and plenty of money in the bank. You can easily find women, break up and find again other women, you can have plenty of love and sex.

Tell me now that things were better in the old times...

is the direct result of people like you who dismiss God to do whatever you want to do and that noone should have anything to say about it.

Listen to yourself...do you actually believe that your God is the truth while the God of others (Islam, Buddha for example) are fakes? why? what makes your God more believable than the god of others? and more importantly:

how God could created so many billions of other people in a state of non-true religions (islamists, buddhists, hindus etc)? is that fair?

Why don't you try answering that, for a change.


[edit on 31-1-2005 by masterp]

I am not telling anyone they shouldn't beleive in fairytales, sorry, I mean the bible. I am not trying to "fuel" anything, I was just pointing out the fact that the bible is just an ancient reason why the world was created and how. Man could not think of anything or any reason why, so they deemed it a higher power.

I am truely blind? Maybe you should remove the scriptures plugging your ears and the pages from your eyes.

He has got to be a very unhappy person

I am a very unhappy person? Only towards you. People like you disgust me, YOU are the general reason for war. World Peace = No Religion. But people think 1 religion = world peace...No, when there is 1 religion left, it will be left with the last person standing alone on this planet.

You have the right to choose whatever you wish to believe, but try and not let those of us on here sway you.

Then deesw, why for the last 16 pages, have you continually pushed your religion and implyed that it is the 1 true religion and God and Blah blah blah. So people have to right to beleive what they beleive but other then christianizm is wrong?

Originally posted by _BLiND_
I am not telling anyone they shouldn't beleive in fairytales, sorry, I mean the bible.

Not trying to fuel anything, eh? You are absolutely free to believe what you wish, but once you try PUSHING your beliefs on others, you are just as bad as those you are putting down. You know that feeling you get when someone says you are going to hell? It is kind of like the feeling people get when you tell them that they are fools for believing in religion. For some people there is a lot more to the universe than what you see.
Religion did not cause war, people did. People will fight no matter how many religions there are. The reason is generally power, and religion is just one of the ways to gain power. Do you wish to remove owning property as well? Or using fossil fuels? They all caused war.

Not trying to fuel anything, eh? You are absolutely free to believe what you wish, but once you try PUSHING your beliefs on others, you are just as bad as those you are putting down.

Thank you. It's about time someone reasonable got on here.

Originally posted by deesw


Thank you. It's about time someone reasonable got on here.

Exactly! And this goes with all beliefs....no one cam prove anything when it comes to religion, beliefs and faith...it's very personal and no one has to right to try and push their belief on anyone else...or tell people that they are evil, wrong, will suffer, or are doing anything wrong...if they do not believe in their religion......

Religion is nothing more than ancient politics. It is nothing more than stories created by man to control other men or achieve an objective.

I was raised a Christian and that religion provides me with a great moral compass in which to live my life now. But I have grown past fairy tells and have no reasonable reason or proof to actually believe anything in there about an after life or omnipotent being. It makes absolutley no since at all to believe writtings that are thousands of years old.

I chose to live my life by the christian compass but why? Why on earth with so many other anceint writtings would anyone have reason to put so much faith into just one of them as the all truth. Because your mom and dad believe it?

I do think that our universe has an intelligent design...perhaps one day we will discover its creator or at least know how it was created.

Nothing wrong with religion as long as it does not induce violence and murder. If it does it needs to go or be changed.

Christ was probably a real human. He may have even believed he was the son of god. There is however no reason for any adult intelligent human being to believe that he is the son of an invisble quiet omnipotent being just because some ancient peoples wrote about it.

No reason at all.

One other thing to ponder.. Why in all religious text is there no out right obvious reference to anything modern? I mean no obvious mention of aircraft or modern politics or modern leaders? There is no mention of man on the moon or mention of how many planets there are? There is no mention of anything that modern man has discovered or created.

Wouldnt the prophets that are gods son or able to see into the future see or know something modern? If the bible was written for all ages then why is it so trapped in its own time? I think the lack of any mention of future times (im not talking about cryptic translation) I am talking straight up mentioning anything about the modern world?


[edit on 1-2-2005 by Xeven]

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Xeven]

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by deesw


Thank you. It's about time someone reasonable got on here.

Exactly! And this goes with all beliefs....no one cam prove anything when it comes to religion, beliefs and faith...it's very personal and no one has to right to try and push their belief on anyone else...or tell people that they are evil, wrong, will suffer, or are doing anything wrong...if they do not believe in their religion......

We certainly have a right to come here and discuss our belief or disbelief and post our opinions on the subject weather it rubs you wrong or not. You dont have to read these threads if learning that your religion is false or some believe it is false offends you.

Some of us like to discuss these things in the raw in order to come to better conclusions about our own beliefs and faiths.

Will the real god please stand up..please stand up....please stand up.

X

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Xeven]

Originally posted by Xeven


We certainly have a right to come here and discuss our belief or disbelief and post our opinions on the subject weather it rubs you wrong or not. You dont have to read these threads if learning that your religion is false or some believe it is false offends you

Yep! You sure do! What you can't do is come to a conspiracy site and tell people that what you believe is truth....this s not a religious site, and if you come back with something as absolute truth, it will be answered by a "prove it", it's the nature of the site.....I have no problem at all discussing as you should know if you frequent this board regularly, I enjoy it or obviously I wouldn't be here but we have had problems in the past with people getting here and stating a religious view as absolute...which doesn't sell here at conspiracy site at all, and that's the way is here whether it rubs you the wrong way or not!

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by Xeven


We certainly have a right to come here and discuss our belief or disbelief and post our opinions on the subject weather it rubs you wrong or not. You dont have to read these threads if learning that your religion is false or some believe it is false offends you

Yep! You sure do! What you can't do is come to a conspiracy site and tell people that what you believe is truth....this s not a religious site, and if you come back with something as absolute truth, it will be answered by a "prove it", it's the nature of the site.....I have no problem at all discussing as you should know if you frequent this board regularly, I enjoy it or obviously I wouldn't be here

but we have had problems in the past with people getting here and stating a religious view as absolute...which doesn't sell here at conspiracy site at all, and that's the way is here whether it rubs you the wrong way or not!

\

hehe some how I think we think the same thing just in different ways... Untill some tangible proof is out there to witness I cant believe in anything but I can speculate and wait for the truth... =)

You dont have to read these threads if learning that your religion is false or some believe it is false offends you.

you just had to go and take that last step didn't you. By implying that anothers
is false you imply that yours is true. there is no way you can prove either.
The very best you might do is to prove your chosen beliefs are true for you.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

you just had to go and take that last step didn't you. By implying that anothers
is false you imply that yours is true. there is no way you can prove either.
The very best you might do is to prove your chosen beliefs are true for you.

Ya know...people can't go further than what they have...therefore, some people are just never gonna get it!

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

You dont have to read these threads if learning that your religion is false or some believe it is false offends you.

you just had to go and take that last step didn't you. By implying that anothers
is false you imply that yours is true. there is no way you can prove either.
The very best you might do is to prove your chosen beliefs are true for you.

They all cant be the true or real religion now can they. As if there is even one out there..

-50 years ago, you had to do everything by hand. Electricity was available, but many thing were not electrical.

-100 years ago, you couldn't vote if you were a woman or black. You did not have indoor plumbing, or heat. You did not go to vacations, and you took a bath once a month.

-200 years ago, you had no rights whatsoever, unless you owned land. You could be easily killed by anyone, even the law.

-300 years ago, your house was a wooden thing without plumbing, and you did your poo in the wilderness. You could be lucky if you took a bath once a year, and luckier if you lived by a lake.

-500 years ago, you would probably be a slave. You wouldn't wipe your ass when you did your poo because the toiler paper was not yet in our everyday life. You had to make your own clothes.

-1000 years ago, you would probably be a soldier, living your life within wars. Wars were everywhere in Europe, and plagues too. If you were a native American, you would be wiped out by Europeans before you could say 'crusade'.

-1500 years ago, if you weren't a shepard, you would be considered lucky. The rest is the same with previous cases.

-3000 years ago, you most probably lived on a tree. If you were part of an ancient civilization (Greece, Persia, Siria, India, Aigypt), you would be in constant wars.


I agree with what you said up until this point. To understand where I'm coming from let's go back even farther.

-3,000,000 years ago, Humans lived in small hunter-gatherer tribes. Conflicts between tribes were most likely solved when one group simply left the area of conflict.

War did not exist. For one tribe to wage war with another would almost certainly mean the death of both tribes due to their lack of numbers (10 to 50 people per tribe).

There was no true control. People could come and go as they please.


If you doubt the validity of my scources then check them out.

Sociology
Sixth Edition
Richard J. Gelles/ Ann Levine
McGraw-Hill Publishing Company
1999


If the scource is unreliable let me know. (I am being serious, not sarcastic).

They all cant be the true or real religion now can they. As if there is even one out there..

actually I believe that when the extemporaneus BS is stripped from them
all religions have a core of belief that is true and valid. None holds a monopoly
on the truth.


as to the bible being the word of God , I would submit that if God had anything to do with it he would not have said ( twice I think) that the sun moves around the earth, S/He did after all create the system right?

OMG.....lol, lmao, i can't believe how long this thread lasted! lol Geeeze 17 pages over a topic like this!?!?!? wow...lol,
sorry i just had to post my amazement....lol
-Dani

look at the double helix from the side view. then look at the letter X. when two double helix are combine together in an X from the side it shows the basis of the cross. The cross is an intertwining of light into a singulairity. this is a crude way of teaching the power to create and destroy. don't believe everything you were taught in high school. you control your body and what is in it.
Most people never come to a complete understanding of the pagan texts but I shall enlighten you to the full beauty of evil. Art is perspectives and to see the entire bible for what it really is complete blows your mind away. It blends together the truth with lies in effort to lead you astray from God, become doubtful, commit sins, and hopefully condemn you to hell with the pagans whom claim to understand God. The complex of pagan’s claiming to know God’s ,word as it is called, is a gift of deception ones self. By speaking to God about the bible in verse ,vs./combat, you are mostly correct. this is true for the gospels/go spells. The devil/lucifer/satan are people whom have tried to be greater than God. They died and went to hell and shall never return unlike what these pagans claim in the text.



[edit on 3-2-2005 by Canopene]

Whew!
*deep cleansing breath*
I just finished reading this entire thread. Hang on -- I need a beer.

OK, I'm back...with quite a few points to make. I may be late coming into this thread, but some things have been said that I must address. Prepare for long, but well-thought-out, post.

First, one cannot use circular logic to prove a point. Example: "The universe exists, therefore God must have created it." And in reverse: "God must have created the Universe, because it exists." Stuff and nonsense. Such faulty reasoning proves nothing.

Second, when one is hypocritical, others will not listen. Proclaiming oneself to be Christian while acting directly in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus as written in the Bible is hypocritical. (I won't mention any names, but you know who you are.) Recall, if you will, that Jesus defended Mary Magdalene, a known prostitute.

Third, thank you to the few of you who used actual historical documentation to support your argument, rather than just your personal opinion. That's what debate is all about -- stating a point, then defending it with evidence and logic.

Fourth, I had no idea there were still so many misconceptions about witches. My "pointy hat" is on my closet shelf. My besom (broom) hangs in the kitchen. My cauldron (kettle) is in a chest along with my athame (ceremonial knife), chalice, candles, incense, and other accountrements of my craft. Yep, I wear LOTS of black.

Moving along, Wicca was declared by the U.S. Government as an official religion in 1982. It is not a cult. I don't go to a church because the whole world is my church. I need only step out my door. And, Dee, yes -- 12-13 of our festivals each year are celebrated at night -- on the nights of the full moon. The other 8 are day-long celebrations (and sometimes well into the night). The 8 coincide with the cycles of life and death in nature, that is, life, death, and rebirth...sound familiar?

Your "Christmas" tree, Dee, is a pagan practice to awaken life in the season of death. The jack-o-lanterns you carve with your kids is a pagan practice to ward off evil spirits. (Interesting how my festival, Samhain, coincides with yours, All Saints' Eve. Coincidence? NOT!) Do you color Easter eggs? Pagan fertility ritual. So's the bunny. In fact, most of the elements of Christianity were "borrowed" from paganism. Transsubstantion, for one. (I'll wait while you look it up.) The entire concept of the Mass: altar, robes, chalice, incense, music, etc. The idea of the Trinity. Even the cross. Now tell me, why would your "one true faith" need to borrow ideas from other religions?

I am not a satanist; I do not believe in Satan, just as I do not believe in his opposite, the Christian god. The misconception that witches worship Satan stems from Herne, the horned god, the hunter.

The oldest religion in the world is paganism. Mother-Goddess and Father-God (she often depicted pregnant or with many breasts, he often depicted with horns). Paganism is thousands of years older than any other religion. In fact, Christianity is a relative late-comer, religiously speaking. Paganism, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism -- all of them existed prior to Christianity. Established historical fact.

My only commandment is, "Harm none; do what ye will."

For those who would say that I'll go to Hell because I don't believe in their god, I have a surprise for you. I'm not interested in going to Heaven. I shall return to this earth until I have learned the lessons for which I was put here. Then, I'll be off to the Summerland, to evolve into the next level of humanity. To be frank, it's your Hell; you burn in it. (Sorry, but I don't take kindly to being told that, because I'm a witch, I'll burn for eternity in some fiery pit.)

I'm not interested in putting down anyone else's beliefs. If your faith works for you, more power to you. Nor am I interested in converting you to my beliefs. No argument will convince me that the Bible is the word of the one true god. There are too many inherent contradictions, and way too much nastiness. Any god/goddess I worship will have to live up to much higher standards.

No deity of mine would ever deem Lot a righteous man. He who, while entertaining strangers, gave his virgin daughters to the crowd to be molested in return for the crowd leaving him and his guests alone. No deity of mine would ever demand the sacrifice of my first-born child, then, at the last minute, say, "Psych! Gotcha! Just testing your faith in Me. Hee hee, you almost fell for that one." No deity of mine would have a lion devour children for laughing. And no deity of mine would prevent me from achieving godhood as the Christian god did to Adam and Eve. "...lest they become like us and live forever." Us. Plural.

Jesus in another story altogether. Whether he truly existed, the historians have yet to decide. However, the lessons he taught were good ones. Love thy neighbor as thyself. I would commend his lessons to you, Dee, especially. You who think that menstruating women are unclean. You who think that your way is the only way. You who are unable to love others as you so obviously do yourself. You who are intolerant of others beliefs and lifestyles. You who willfully wallow in your ignorance of history and theology -- even that of your own religion. You're lucky I'm a good witch.

Originally posted by wang
I see hoenstly what you are trying to get at, and i agree with you 100 percent. But its not as easy as u make it out to be, the sad thing is that christianity and islam are both growing.....
Now i wont slag on anyone religion, but religion is out of date. The christian church use to teach people that the sky was like a dome, and the stars were hanging off the roof, this is the only way they could explain the sky, and as we now know that is a ridiculous teaching. Christianity has always played on the "how can u be sure?" arguement, always playing on peoples ignorance. In todays modern world with science explaining the universe and the world, christianity is now playing on what we dont know again, anything we cant explain is the work of god. Yes its a very frustrating point trying to persuade a fanatic christian that maybe just maybe their god acturly didnt do anything. Anywho the only way i can see religion dieing out is when a theory of mine comes in to place.
Now any person with a logical and fair mind can see the merit of my theory.
I think that religion should be absolutely illegal to anyway under 18, and only scientfic theories should be teached to them, and if they ask how the world was created, they are told what we do know through science and if they ask somethign that cant be explain they get the simply reply of "we dont know how or why" then when the reach the age of 18, which is considerd in most places the age when a child becomes a adult, they are given every religious text they want. The bible, koran, torah, kabbala, the satanic bible, hindu texts, buddism texts, etc etc. Then at this age where there mind are not impressionable and they can make a decision for themselves on what they believe, not what is pushed into their brains at a young age. So if all of these religions really are so enlighten, and so "right" then this person who has no initial contact with any belief of any sort can decide for themselves what to believe.
If this could be applied to every newborn on this planet from today, i gurantee that all organised religions will become little cults. The one god figure that has been worshiped for so long will become like the paegen gods. This is the day that humanity will take its next step in evolution and that all citizens on this planet will open their minds to new things they never thought was concievable, and they world will see a new age of knowledge. This will become the humanity golden age.
Yet with people like GW in charge of the most powerful country in the world....doesnt look like the golden age is comming anytime to soon.....even though it is my one wish to break the chains on humanity from religion, just wish it would be in my life time.

Actually! If you had it that way I think it would turn even more people religious. If youre telling them from ages 1 to 18 that nobody knows why we are created and all that mumbo jumbo ignorance then when you hand them a Bible or whatever religious text, they will see that a lot of whats in it makes pretty good sense on how it all started. Thats unless you lied to them and told them that they were nothing but fairy tales which noone can prove. And I think if the world only knew science and no religion whatsoever, many people would kill themselves. I know I would.

Recall, if you will, that Jesus defended Mary Magdalene, a known prostitute.

actually if you read carefully there is no evidence that Mary was a
prostitute. The two stories were intentionally run together.

The misconception that witches worship Satan stems from Herne, the horned god, the hunter

it was done intentionally by the RCC to confuse the Pagan God with their devill
in an attempt to draw people away from The Old Time Religions. ( gimme that old time religion!!!)

Islam

as I recall Islam came out of the desert somewhere around 500AD.

MM wasn't a prostitute till the church edited the bible. Originally she was Jesus's lover and the leader of the 7 female disciples. But can't have women with power now can we?