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originally posted by: dfnj2015
Thomas Jefferson : "Paul was the first great corrupter of Jesus' teachings."
en.wikipedia.org...
Which once again leads me to ask why even use a bible you do not believe is 100% true, without error, inspired and without corruption.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
your premise is wrong, your verses are out of context and fail to rightly divide whom is being spoken of who and when, your whole study wreaks of elementary bible study errors. I have poninted this out to you and malocchino but you never adress it. You just claim I am just saying the same things Well yeah that is because that is where you errors lay in your failure to study correctly, taking verse out of context and then placing your own personal interpretation to the verses in question.
Which once again leads me to ask why even use a bible you do not believe is 100% true, without error, inspired and without corruption.
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Malocchio
Originally posted by Malocchio
There is no reason to infer that they were lying,
No evidence, and Paul is known for making accusations without evidence, so again why should I believe it without evidence.
Believing that Hermogenes and Demas were lying because Paul of all people accuses them of hypocrisy without evidence is bad analysis.
The author doesn't s?
I’ve already explained how in my previous post…I’ll try to outline it more clearly one LAST time
They’re being set up as people that can’t be trusted, and gradually they develop a clear motive for disliking Paul even further, and for lying about Paul and ultimately having him handed over to the authorties etc…while Paul is being praised as rightoues and loving through various other parts of the text!!!
Acts of Paul
1 When Paul went up unto Iconium after he fled from Antioch, there journeyed with him Demas and Hermogenes the coppersmith, which were full of hypocrisy, and flattered Paul as though they loved him. But Paul, looking only unto the goodness of Christ, did them no evil, but loved them well,
Here is where the writer is setting them up to be the bad guys and having a dislike for Paul…That dislike and hatred grows as the texts goes on…
For example here again below…
Acts of Paul
4 And when Paul saw Onesiphorus he smiled, and Onesiphorus said: Hail, thou servant of the blessed God. And he said: Grace be with thee and with thine house. But Demas and Hermogenes were envious, and stirred up their hypocrisy yet more, so that Demas said: Are we not servants of the Blessed, that thou didst not salute us so?
Due to the fact that there’s nowhere in Pauls speech (verses 5-6) where he states chastity is a requirement for salvation…it has to be inferred that Demas and Hermongenes are not being truthfull about Pauls teachings, which continues the theme of them being the bad guys and dislikng Paul etc…
The reader of the text is supposed to appreciate and understand that aspect…
We know that the writer thinks Demas and Hermongenes are the bad guys and against Paul and so forth, so it makes perfect sense that the reader is supposed to infer, that they are lying about what Paul taught regarding chastity, just to get him arrested…And remember, Paul isn’t teaching that chastity is a requirment for salvation in verses 5 to 6…
This all culminates in them helping to get Paul arrested…in these verses below…
11 But Thamyris leapt up and went forth into the street and watched them that went in to Paul and came out. And he saw two men striving bitterly with one another, and said to them: Ye men, tell me who ye are, and who is he that is within with you, that maketh the souls of young men and maidens to err, deceiving them that there may be no marriages but they should live as they are. I promise therefore to give you much money if ye will tell me of him: for I am a chief man of the city.
12 And Demas and Hermogenes said unto him: Who this man is, we know not; but he defraudeth the young men of wives and the maidens of husbands, saying: Ye have no resurrection otherwise, except ye continue chaste, and defile not the flesh but keep it pure.
Demas and Hermogenes disliked Paul from the beginning and his teachings, so they have clear motive to lie about Paul teaching those things to get him arrested. But Paul NEVER taught those things in his speech…
You can’t see it because you’re not reading and comprehending the text in it’s entirety… you’re just not weighing it up overall…
Added to which there are tons of other verses which praise Paul…here are just a few examples…
The Acts of Paul
5 And when Paul entered into the house of Onesiphorus, there was great joy, and bowing of knees and breaking of bread, and the word of God concerning abstinence (or continence) and the resurrection; for Paul said:
The Acts of Paul
18 But Thecla at night took off her bracelets and gave them to the doorkeeper, and when the door was opened for her she went into the prison, and gave the jailer a mirror of silver and
The Acts of Paul
A lion, then, of huge size and unmatched strength was let loose upon him, and it ran to him in the stadium and lay down at his feet. And when many other savage beasts, too, were let loose, it was permitted to none of them to touch the holy body, standing like a statue in prayer. At this juncture a violent and vast hailstorm poured down all at once with a great rush, and shattered the heads of many men and beasts as well, and shore off the ear of Hieronymus himself. And thereafter, with his followers, he came to the God of Paul and received the baptism of salvation. But the lion escaped to the mountains.
In this verse above they’re calling it the “God of Paul”, they are clearly prasing Paul and his teachings for being that which saves them…what type of anti Pauline text would do that…answer…NONE….
There’s tons more examples within the text where Paul is teaching, the “word of God”, in some rightoues
If he wanted you to think he was lying he would have called them liars. Since he doesn't there is no reason to believe that they were lying and no reason to doubt that the author wants to paint this picture of Paul.
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Originally posted by Malocchio
He is clearly a coward who doesn't save Thecla TWICE and let's her be arrested TWICE.
They arrested Thecla because she was following Paul te
And like I said before, the text wants to give the Glory to God, so that woman will come to believe that chastity is a great trait in the eyes of God…
Continued...
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio
You have no real proof only conjecture and opinions, verses out of context, misapplication of scriptures and private interpretation based on wrong division and pretextual ideas that scriptures don't support.
You basis is that scriptures are corrupt and you are god
saying what is truth and what is not.
originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Paul was also cozy with the family of Herod, he mentioned a Herodion and I believe an Aristobulus, a name also linked with Herod.
I think it's safe to say Saul/Paul was a spy and agent provocateur who hastened the collapse of Judea by MURDERING JAMES.
Saul the Pharisee, a Roman sympathizer and go between for the parties of Rome and Judea, a friend of the Herodians, murdered James.
Saul/Paul murdered James, in history and not mythology, the story of Stephen is cloaking the murder of James by Saul.
It's fascinating what you learn when you read other books besides the mad rantings of a treacherous devil.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio
Conjecture, opinion and private interpretation. Error on every front.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio
all your claims out side of the preserved Bible you do not believe. Therefore Conjecture, private interpretation and error about Paul/Saul of Tarsus, the Servant of Jesus Christ.