Shanksville pics..?

In this picture you can see the small v groove that was left on 911, the scar you see is a weathered ditch that was not made on 911. All that was made was a v groove 10 feet deep and around 15+feet wide.

This image was taken shortly after the event in shanksville. Very small hole, no fuel fire, no fuel no broken grass no wings etc...



For comparison here are some images of an Iranian airline crash into terrain similar to shanksville.








and now shankville

a reply to: AsherLewin11

And you totaly will not answer any questions directed to you.

Because you ignore the buried wreckage, the characters of the soil composition at Shanksville, and the characters of high speed crashes, all you have is that you don't like the crater?

Did the Iranian jet hit the same way as flight 93? Nose and right wing first? Was there a debris field proving the crashes were similar?

Are you saying no personal items recovered from the Iranian crash?

There is lots of green and unburt grass around the Irianian crater? Was it a conspiracy too?

How did all the wreckage, DNA, and personal items end up at the flight 93 crash site? Right number of engines and correct nomenclature.

How did the flight recorders end up at the site buried 15 and 25 feet deep.

What created the fire damage and extensive debris field of passenger plane wreckage.

Where did flight 93 and the passengers end up in your false narrative.

Ignoring that the position of flight 93 was visually verified by other flights and tracked by radar to rhe crash site.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AsherLewin11

And you totaly will not answer any questions directed to you.

Because you ignore the buried wreckage, the characters of the soil composition at Shanksville, and the characters of high speed crashes, all you have is that you don't like the crater?

The terrain in Shanksville was loose, soft, just recently back filled with clean fill. If a boeing 757 were to have crashed there as we all know one didnt, it would of carved a massive crater considering flight 93 was allegedly travelling at over 500mph and only a 40 degree angle. Therefore a large Boeing 757 dd not creat that 15 foot wide crater in Shasnkville.

No wings impact, no fuel fire crater v groove way too small to have been caused by a large Boeing 757.
A small craft or missile maybe but that speculation, all tho there were eyewitnesses to a small van sized craft skimming the ground and crashing not a commercial airliner

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AsherLewin11






There is lots of green and unburt grass around the Irianian crater? Was it a conspiracy too?

. Three hours after the crash, fires over a 200 square metres (2,200 sq ft) area still remained.[3][12] A witness told Fars News Agency:.....

Here is Shanksville



As you can see something crashed there but it was not a Boeing 757.

What created the fire damage and extensive debris field of passenger plane wreckage.

Not sure but it was NOT a Boeing 757 aka Flight 93.


Flight 7908 "30+ feet deep over 100 feet wide and hundreds of feet long: Shankville? 10 feet deep 15 feet wide heck ill give you 30 feet wide if it makes you feel better.

Another example of a real crash site

You are thinking to much in conspiracy fantasy world. Back to reality my friend, ask some scholars, research. You will see that Flight 93 a Boeing 757 did not crash in Shanksville on 911.

Here is shanksville again, notice the man is standing mere feet from the initial impact zone, as you can see the point of entry is quite small no where the size of a large boeing 757. So therefore a Boeing 757 did not cause it for it is impossible.

a reply to: AsherLewin11

The official account was a irregular shape crater anywhere from at least 30 to 50 feet wide.

I see a wider field of lose and turned over ground void of grass?

And you totaly will not answer any questions directed to you.

Because you ignore the buried wreckage, the characters of the soil composition at Shanksville, and the characters of high speed crashes, all you have is that you don't like the crater?

Did the Iranian jet hit the same way as flight 93? Nose and right wing first? Was there a debris field proving the crashes were similar?

Are you saying no personal items recovered from the Iranian crash?

There is lots of green and unburt grass around the Irianian crater? Was it a conspiracy too?

How did all the wreckage, DNA, and personal items end up at the flight 93 crash site? Right number of engines and correct nomenclature.

How did the flight recorders end up at the site buried 15 and 25 feet deep.

What created the fire damage and extensive debris field of passenger plane wreckage.

Where did flight 93 and the passengers end up in your false narrative.

Ignoring that the position of flight 93 was visually verified by other flights and tracked by radar to the crash site.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: RKWWWW

Radar is and was easily spoofed. The ACARS data came from the discovery process in the Moussaoui trial, and it is accurate.


Embarrassing and fatal to the government story, but accurate. Considering that there was no Boeing to be seen at Shanksville, and that at least one FBI agent tried to suborn perjury from Ms. McIlwain regarding what type airplane she actually saw, it makes perfect sense that UA93 was somewhere other than Shanksville.

ACARS information was included in a time-line presented in court on March 7, 2006 in the case of United Sates v Zacarias Moussaoui, found here cryptome.org... It was indeed accurate. The only message received from Flight 93 occurred at 9:26. No. Other. Message. Was. Received. EVER.

Tell me, why would you bring up sworn testimony that is in total contradiction to your claims?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AsherLewin11

"A small craft or missile maybe but that speculation, all tho there were eyewitnesses to a small van sized craft skimming the ground and crashing not a commercial airliner". Source?

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

Lets look at YOUR flawed physics example re your 200lb weight I can fire a bullet at you waying a few grams that will knock you off your feet!

Were do we start how about the MASS, first of all the structral steel for each tower was round 96,000 tons fig from steel mill. The bulk of the concrete was flooring grade 4.5 inches thick used to make up the the floor slabs using the area for a floor and the 115 lb per cubic foot quoted for the slab mix thats around 110,000 tons. Those items are the structural components of the towers. That's what takes the gravity & wind loads.

If you want data on office fires and structural steel it's easy to find its been posted on here MANY times.

If you want to work out the DYNAMIC load of a 1000 TON floorslabs falling 12 ft the height of a WTC FLOOR onto the slab below use this link.

Object Falling From Rest
As you seem to know so much you should have no problems putting in the required info and going to the next step.

The argument about the 200 ton jet and 500,000 ton towers is FLAWED in a few ways, the impacts caused structural damage the fires weakened the steel it was the mass above the impact points that brought the towers down that and the fact that the floor slab trusses were supported on cleats on the outer wall and inner core wall to produce the maximum office space.

That meant that MASS falling inside the tower could drop between the walls.

Each floorslab was supported INDIVIDUALLY on its cleats see pic below so if something fell on it ONLY the cleats supporting that FLOOR could resist the load falling on it.



New 7WTC is different in may ways prime example

The building has 2 ft (60 cm) thick reinforced-concrete and fireproofed elevator and stairway access shafts. The original building used only drywall to line these shafts. The stairways are wider than in the original building to permit faster egress.

If you are going to makes claims make sure your right

My background first job after school the design/drawing office of a STRUCTURAL STEEL company then working in a technical role on site on anything from multi storey buildings to one off luxury houses, office buildings shopping malls even hydro electric schemes. Often site testing structural components sometimes to destruction and making recommendations to architects/engineers on the loadings that could be used.

a reply to: AsherLewin11

FBI field report listing knives recovered from Flight 93 site . Also lists purchasers of knives and tools by hijackers in months before

911myths.com...

"Box Cutters" was term used by media . Most of the knives recovered were either utility (Stanley ) or Swiss Army
or Leathermen knives

Also used pepper spray on AA Flight 11 to clear out First class cabin. On United 93 used fake bomb

a reply to: AsherLewin11

Again

May 25, 1989 NY Times

An investigator for the board, Chauncey Twine, said the airplane crashed at an 80-degree angle, clipping trees and landing amid rocks and boulders at 3:15. An explosion followed, sending flames higher than treetops, residents said.

''If the angle of descent was not as great,'' Mr. Twine said, ''the fire would have spread. By impacting at that angle, it was fairly contained.''

Flames higher than tree tops .......

Operative words - "If angle of descent was not as great.... Fire would have spread" "By impacting at that angle, it was
fairly contained"

Iranian plane hit at shallow angle - which accounts for large pieces of debris and resulting fuel fire

Or by the way - I was at the scene of this plane crash

originally posted by: RKWWWW

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AsherLewin11

"A small craft or missile maybe but that speculation, all tho there were eyewitnesses to a small van sized craft skimming the ground and crashing not a commercial airliner". Source?

yes, that lady is quite well known....she gave great details that are just what a housewife would report....so that gives credence to her witnessing. She's chock full of detailed description.....about many aspects of the drone sized composite crafted low flying high order explosion summabeech.

The thing went right over her.....she was right there.....

is the pic of the cheesey smokeball still around......I mean just that alone......tell me please

The crater in shanksville was 15 feet wide at the end of the conical ejection of dirt , 30 feet long 10 feet deep.


Again. Proven not have been caused by flight 93 the Boeing 757.

a reply to: RKWWWW

Sworn testimony in a Kangaroo Court conducted by the US DOJ? Are you kidding? That's the same DOJ with all the skeletons in its closet, the same DOJ well known for kangaroo courts.


As usual, the devil is in the details regarding the ACARS. Perhaps you don't understand that ACARS is really just an elaborate texting system designed for the airline industry. Like our cell phones, whether the human is texting or not, the phone is communicating with the ground towers and its computers. ACARS works on the same principle. Whether the airplane was actually communicating with the dispatch office or not, the computers onboard are communicating with the computers on the ground.

THAT was the communication information discovered that corroborates what was seen on the ground in PA--no airliner. It was still airborne, somewhere near Illinois.

That is why the Moussaoui trial was the ONLY actual trial conducted related to 911. The government story was dealt a heavy blow in the discovery process, and the government avoids such trials, even though they win the case, they lose a battle here and there.

a reply to: Salander

What are you referring to? ACARS messages sent to Flight 93 at 10:10 not knowing the jet crashed, with no return from flight 93?

One, Radar is the more credible evidence.

Two, you never answered how close the witnesses saying the object was too small was to the flight path, what was in the sky that gave prospective, and what made the persons knowledgeable about passenger jets. I am also curious when the testimony was first given?

Three, the overwhelming evidence of other witnesses, responders, radar, DNA, and actual physical evidence at the crash site.

Four, no answers to how the physical evidence ended up at the crash site.

Five, back to the government controls all courts, witnesses, radar data, first responders, evidence, but not the one witness? Where did the passengers of flight 93 go?

Six, the willingness of conspiraciest to not be transparent, present items out of context, and posting false narratives in new forums debunked in other debates. Then act like it hasn't been debunked for the last five or ten years.

www.911myths.com...
(9:41 a.m.) September 11, 2001:
The transponder on the plane was turned off. The Cleveland controller located the aircraft on primary radar, and matched his reading with visual sightings from other aircraft to follow the Flight 93 as it turned east and, ultimately, south.

The Herndon Command Center notified headquarters that Flight 93 had reversed course from its intended flight path and was descending and heading eastbound.
(Source)

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: RKWWWW

Sworn testimony in a Kangaroo Court conducted by the US DOJ? Are you kidding? That's the same DOJ with all the skeletons in its closet, the same DOJ well known for kangaroo courts.


As usual, the devil is in the details regarding the ACARS. Perhaps you don't understand that ACARS is really just an elaborate texting system designed for the airline industry. Like our cell phones, whether the human is texting or not, the phone is communicating with the ground towers and its computers. ACARS works on the same principle. Whether the airplane was actually communicating with the dispatch office or not, the computers onboard are communicating with the computers on the ground.

THAT was the communication information discovered that corroborates what was seen on the ground in PA--no airliner. It was still airborne, somewhere near Illinois.

That is why the Moussaoui trial was the ONLY actual trial conducted related to 911. The government story was dealt a heavy blow in the discovery process, and the government avoids such trials, even though they win the case, they lose a battle here and there.

If your argument boils down to the government lied, just say so and stop wasting everyone's time by bringing up the details. Try this: if someone asks for proof, just say "because government".

originally posted by: GBP/JPY

originally posted by: RKWWWW

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AsherLewin11

"A small craft or missile maybe but that speculation, all tho there were eyewitnesses to a small van sized craft skimming the ground and crashing not a commercial airliner". Source?

yes, that lady is quite well known....she gave great details that are just what a housewife would report....so that gives credence to her witnessing. She's chock full of detailed description.....about many aspects of the drone sized composite crafted low flying high order explosion summabeech.

The thing went right over her.....she was right there.....

is the pic of the cheesey smokeball still around......I mean just that alone......tell me please

What about all the other eye witnesses that saw an airliner?

a reply to: RKWWWW

Actually the eyewitnesses saw something smaller crash in shanksville. WHEN they told the fbi what they saw the fbi no you saw a boeing 757 in which they still claim they saw something much smaller.

Purbaugh from Rollock when asked over a phone conversation I had with him 2 years he said that he has been advised by his lawyer that he cannot say the size of the craft that crashed but leading experts believe it was a cruise missile, surrogate as part of the war game exercises taking place over shanksville.

THE crater being v groove ranging to 2feet wide to 15 feet at the end only 10 feet deep and around 30 feet long much too small to have been caused by flight 93 the Boeing 757

originally posted by: AsherLewin11
a reply to: RKWWWW

Actually the eyewitnesses saw something smaller crash in shanksville. WHEN they told the fbi what they saw the fbi no you saw a boeing 757 in which they still claim they saw something much smaller.

Purbaugh from Rollock when asked over a phone conversation I had with him 2 years he said that he has been advised by his lawyer that he cannot say the size of the craft that crashed but leading experts believe it was a cruise missile, surrogate as part of the war game exercises taking place over shanksville.

THE crater being v groove ranging to 2feet wide to 15 feet at the end only 10 feet deep and around 30 feet long much too small to have been caused by flight 93 the Boeing 757

You are commingling the eye witness reports for two separate aircraft from that day and cooking the facts to disparage the integrity of the investigation. Shortly after Flight 93 crashed a Dassault Falcon 20 business jet was seen by eye witnesses. The small business jet was in the vicinity and was contacted by FAA Cleveland Center and asked to investigate the incoming reports. The Falcon got down within 1500 ft. of the ground and circled. They saw a hole in the ground with smoke coming out of it. They pinpointed the location and then continued on. The other aircraft seen that day was, of course, Flight 93. There were several eyewitnesses testimonies who unequivocally saw an airliner flying to the crash site. Though these testimonies varied in the amount of detail, there was no conflicting information. Unlike your dubious claim of eye witnesses seeing a plane the size of a VW, I can actually link you to the real eye witnesses who saw Flight 93. www.911myths.com...
How about that? You can not source anything for your extraordinary claims, but I can easily source information that contradicts those extraordinary claims.