Pardon Me, But Your Slip Is Showing… aka Mike Rowe v. The Press

a reply to: ketsuko

Mike Rowe exemplifies everything that is great about America. Hard work. Honesty. Common sense. Goodness. Decency. Outside the box thinking. Guts. Courage.

The list goes on.

I believe that Mike Rowe speaks for a lot of people. The person changing your oil. The meat cutter. The landscaper. The pool guy. The list goes on. The elites consistently trash the everyday American. The media backs them up and continues this arrogant display of anti-American rhetoric.

This is exactly what the rise of Trump is all about. He is speaking what the everyday average American is thinking. He is preaching to the core of this country, everything that makes America the most sought after place to live. Constitutional values and individual liberties. The right to be different.

Check out this podcast that Mike Rowe did with Tim Ferris: Tim Ferris Podcast/Mike Rowe
It is super interesting and really get's into Mike's head. This is what America is all about. Also, if you have never heard of Tim Ferris, I advise that you check out his work. I have read all of his books, and consume his media on a regular basis.

The 4 hour workweek has been life changing for a lot of people. His slow carb diet also enabled me to lose 38 pounds in a month. Good stuff!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

"NO H8" as you are in a thread berating the working class. Who are you to discount another person's experience?

How hoity toity of you.

Here is my take on education.

Find what you want to do and go for it.

If the field of interest requires you to get that college degree, dig deep and get that degree; albeit, dont discount experience on that path.

If on the contrary you can achieve the knowledge needed via "alternative" means do it, but dont write off the education of a college or any other means.

They are part and parcel to each other. Educate yourself in whichever means you see fit. I have known taxi drivers with a wealth of knowledge and doctors with a wealth of texts.

Set your goal, ignore what the media portrays you as, and make a life for yourself. I believe that is what Mr. Rowe is getting at.

a reply to: ketsuko

I am definitely not in agreement with most of what you post, but I'll always give credit where it's due, and you, deserve a nice hat tip with this post.

The 'low-information' voter and 'uneducated' terms are straw men, at best, a turning-up-the-nose on a dignified, welcome class of US citizens, at worst. A guy like Mike Rowe putting this into perspective is music to my hears (when he's narrating/hosting, of course).

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: burgerbuddy

I have just under 400 college semester credits. That doesn't mean I'm educated though, there's still way more in life that I don't know than I do.

You may think poorly because I'm defending getting an actual education, but that's better than the opposite approach which is defending ignorance.

Again, I don't consider education and learning to do a job to be in the same category at all. Job training is how you make a living, learning how the world works (both in theory and practice) is education.

I don't begrudge anyone getting an education at all.

It's the ivory tower academicos who thrive on their own ideological BS.

Your definition of "ignorance" is what, now?

But see how you dismiss the worker knowing how the world works, assuming he doesn't know crap about it and is wrapped in a bubble of ignorance of the world around him.


How DOES the world work?

We uneducated know enough to see when we are being scammed and unfortunately we haven't had anyone show up that knows it, until Trump, that's why he is doing so well.

Complete your schooling, keep your own mind and best of luck!

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Education is not the be all of knowledge.

Do you think I disagree with this??? I don't. I agree completely. Education, wisdom and experience all contribute to a person's knowledge... And, outside of a demographic measure, it means NOTHING, just as my gender, race and marital status mean nothing.

Just because someone has a college degree does not make them an expert in that field. Someone that has 30 years of experience in that same field can run circles around the person that has that piece of paper, but little to no experience in it.

Agree 100%.

I was a technician during my career, so, believe me, I know how frustrating working with engineers can be.

I am not, and have not, said or implied that a piece of paper means ANYTHING other than it's a piece of paper.

I don't know why you're trying to convince me of something I already believe... 100%!

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

How DOES the world work?

We uneducated know enough to see when we are being scammed and unfortunately we haven't had anyone show up that knows it, until Trump, that's why he is doing so well.

Complete your schooling, keep your own mind and best of luck!

Knowing something isn't right doesn't equate to knowing how to fix it. I know that my car engine is loud right now, I know that it should be quiet. I'm as ignorant over how to do that though as I am over how to balance a trade deal. Difference is, most people readily defer to an expert in the first case, but go with their own opinion in the second.

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Why do you say that? How do you know what they think of you?

Sound like some serious assuming is going on...

Out of curiosity, do you think you might do this in regards to black/white race issues?

Do what?

originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

"NO H8" as you are in a thread berating the working class. Who are you to discount another person's experience?

Where did I berate the working class, or discount another person's experience???

I'm a high school drop-out. I went to PART of 9th grade and that's it. I then went back and got my GED and worked at a donut shop, a spring factory, and in manufacturing. When I was 24, I went to a tech school. I AM the working class!

The bbc did the same thing with brexit and went off on how all the "educated" people voted remain. They're so desperately trying to sway our opinions it's too obvious.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

But that's exactly what the media and other social commentary hacks are implying when they they say that.
To deny it is being willfully disingenuous.

You've just described most interactions with BH. Purposely obtuse.

a reply to: ketsuko

Mike Rowe is my personal hero and has been for a long time.

He's right, btw.

A four year degree is pointless today. It's more of an indoctrination certificate than anything else. Ask the "kids" I work with, who are working the same job I am. They have degrees, while I do not. Guess who the #1 tech is? Yep, good ol' me. They all come to me for help or advice. I also make more than them. I am exactly what Mike was pointing out. I am educated, I just didn't get a Liberal Indoctrination at a college.

However, when the Engineer position came open, they refused to promote me, because they wanted someone with a .....four year degree, at the minimum. For $1 more an hour.....LOL.

The guy they hired as Engineer? Clueless idiot. No real world experience, no common sense AT ALL and his first two "miracle" fixes? They were mine, he came to ME for help. Then, claimed them as his own. I stopped helping him. Now, he's digging his own grave, and they're about to fire him. If they come to me for the job NOW, the price just went up. $1 more won't get it done.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Yes, but the bias exists in the reverse as well. Having spent 20 years in the blue collar world (masonry/construction), I have a lot of respect for it and never look down on those lines of work. A few years back, I went back and got my mechanical engineering degree and then a Masters in electrical engineering.

Now, I work in a facility that has a lot of tradespeople working in the same building as a bunch of engineers and analysts. I make it a point to say hi to almost everybody I pass by in the halls. There are plenty of good guys in the trades, but there are more than a few who think they are so much better than the engineers because they do "real work", and have the same kinds of bias you speak of. I just chuckle inside and think "you have no clue how hard I work or how dirty I have gotten".

a reply to: poncho1982

Are you #1, or do you think you're #1?

Doesn't it stand to reason that if you were actually #1 you would have been promoted?

Or, alternative theory:
The world is not a meritocracy which means the best people aren't the ones who are promoted, instead promotions rely on meeting criteria rather than actual performance and knowledge.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
I don't begrudge anyone getting an education at all.

It's the ivory tower academicos who thrive on their own ideological BS.

Your definition of "ignorance" is what, now?

But see how you dismiss the worker knowing how the world works, assuming he doesn't know crap about it and is wrapped in a bubble of ignorance of the world around him.

Sorry, I missed responding to the first part of this.

My definition of ignorance is not being an expert in a field. I dismiss just about everyone as ignorant whether they have a degree or not. Only a handful of people are actual experts in a field, and those people can really only advise a few others. The rest of us just get blog posts and newspaper articles telling us that we should think X because Y said it.

The problem here comes in voting. The idea of an educated vote is completely contrary to existing society. There's no real research on a position... just reasons for or against a specific candidate once it becomes an election issue. And elections themselves attempt to muddy the waters.

So in the end the person who attempts to have an unbiased and informed vote to make a decision based on reason, has been brainwashed by numerous agenda driven media companies, on a subject they knew little about to start, all through the prism of political grandstanding rather than knowing what's going to happen behind the scenes.

It is impossible under the current system to be anything other than a low information voter on every single subject, even if it's a subject you're an actual expert in.

Anyways I'm getting off topic... your final point how do I dismiss people? Simple. I only consider people well informed on a subject if they can contribute to the body of knowledge on it. Perhaps that's a bit of an academic approach, but that's my standards. Simply reading up on a topic is nothing more than being told what to think from someone else. Being able to advance the field in some way proves mastery over the core concepts.

a reply to: ketsuko

As an educated person I don't see an issue with calling someone uneducated. It's not an indication of their mental capacity. I do have a problem with how it's used in this context though. The obvious implication is that trumps base is stupid...why do I think that? I've never heard a media outlet call Black or Hispanic voters uneducated even though a 30% of black youth don't graduate high school and 25% of Hispanics don't either.

Does that make them stupid? No, far from it, but why aren't they characterized as uneducated in the media?

a reply to: jellyrev

UMM so the Hillary supporter has been more formally indoctrinated in the "correct" thinking?

Oh for the day when collage was actually about science, math and facts instead of feelings.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: poncho1982

Are you #1, or do you think you're #1?

Doesn't it stand to reason that if you were actually #1 you would have been promoted?

Or, alternative theory:
The world is not a meritocracy which means the best people aren't the ones who are promoted, instead promotions rely on meeting criteria rather than actual performance and knowledge.

Considering I've only been at this job a year, and yes I am indeed the #1 tech, I think I'm just fine right where I'm at.

The Engineer position was not something I really desired, and it was not worth a measly $1 more an hour for the added responsibility of being the "official" trainer and interdepartmental "tech support". I only asked about it, and never officially applied for it, because they said they wanted a four year degree to even be considered.

You missed the entire point of my post. They wanted a degree, they got one, but with it came an incredibly useless candidate. They leaned. Even my manager, and the GM wanted me to be in that position, but the Corporate people who are 500 miles away in Pennsylvania wanted their arbitrary "education" requirements, and they have never set foot in out facility to know what really goes on.

So, your little alternate theory?

Yeah, not even close to reality.

Give me someone with real word experience, over someone who THINKS they know it all any day.

a reply to: Winstonian

"NO H8" as you are in a thread berating the working class. Who are you to discount another person's experience? How hoity toity of you.

BH isn't berating anyone. She's questioning the thinking of a few individuals in this thread - including the OP

This thread celebrates and defends the working class. The working class should be celebrated - and defended. Should it also be protected from higher expectations?

My entire family forward and backwards is working class. Education - knowledge - is a gift. Who doesn't recognize that?

The mistake this thread makes is to pretend to be about something else. It's only about showing complete disdain for people who are educated

Or - did you miss that part?

Anti-intellectualism is a tool that's being used to destroy this country

If you feel inferior - that's your problem. You think everyone that has a higher education than you - or that even supports higher education - is some how hoity toity? Then you are no better than those you criticize

You're just another flavor of judgemental snob. Same as our OP

Her husband is special though - he needs his education. Hands off

:-)

a reply to: Halfswede

Oh yes, I'll completely admit that the bias can go the other way.

The difference being that most of the blue collar people are not controlling whether or not you get hired based upon a piece of paper.

You are a prime example of someone that has that piece of paper, BUT, you also have the hands on experience to back it up! Kudos to you!

Personally I think that it's decades and decades of parents and society telling our young people that if they do not attend college and get a degree that they will never get anywhere in the world, will never succeed and pretty much will be a "looser".

I distinctly remember many of my friends in high school (way, way back in the 1980s) going on and on about how their parents were going to kill them if they did make a perfect score on their SATs and get into a college.

The results in today's world are quite obvious: huge amounts of people with degrees and not enough jobs that require that degree they worked hard (and spent huge amounts of money that they owe) for.

I think our world would be a much better place if us parents simply supported our kids and what they are interested in and what they want to pursue in life. Along with a society that does not look down it's nose at those who do jobs that do not require a degree.

To me that person digging a ditch for irrigation or laying fiber optic cables is just as important as the heart surgeon.

The problem is: society insults the ditch digger, while putting heart surgeon up on a throne and worshiping them.